Its a very short term view to discount Dack simply because he isnt back to his best yet. And I would also disagree that Travis at current fitness is any more effective, he has been really poor since he came back, poor on the ball, heavy touches and not effective as a shield. Both will require a couple more games, but both are key so we have little choice but to be patient such is their importance. You choose Holtby over Dack, he has been ineffective basically all season. I might be wrong but when he scored those goals at Coventry, they had Maddison and Joe Cole so they probably did use a 10. But ultimately it is irrelevant. The 433 has not led to improved results so it shouldnt be beyond reproach. 4231 with Elliott right and Armstrong as the striker has never been tested but in theory those 3 could thrive in such a system, we would have secondary cover in front of our defence and it just generally seems to suit us better, and with recent form and overall results the manager should be willing to change, all he seems to do is constantly alternatate between formations desperate for something to stick, 433 then to more nonsensical crap like false 9s, box midfields etc. I feel like we need more clarity, more consistency and I think 4231 as a formation best suits our players. Elliott would be in theory unaffected playing in a 4231 or a 433 as long as he plays wide right and not in central midfield or as a false 9 which hinders him. Playing with Dack I suspect would benefit both. And Armstrong would probably himself benefit further from having Dack in closer support and sliding him in. Even if there was a conclusion that Armstrong is somehow compromised by putting Dack behind him, the slight compromise would surely be more than compensated by Dacks return and additional quality. You say our best players who are playing well now, that is very few players. Armstrong is obviously key and Elliott is a great talent but even both of them have dipped in form with Mowbrays constant confusion not helping.

If they were witholding money because they didnt trust Mowbray he wouldnt still be here. The pitch is also in ruins due to continued budget cuts, I presume that is also on hold until Mowbray goes?

I would be absolutely amazed on both counts. I certainly wouldnt be fully expecting it. What is in the air is negligence from the owners, stagnation on the pitch and incompetence from the CEO.

Quite a few of the central midfielders (Travis, Trybull, Davenport, Johnson, Evans) are quite defensive so they could play in a 2 deeper and give secondary protection to a flaky defence whilst allowing us to have a secondary striker in Dack supporting Armstrong, they will get goals. 433 maybe suits Holtby and Rothwell but neither are consistent or dominating enough to warrant sidelining Dack. The problem is that people think it has to be direct when playing 4231 and it doesnt. The main reason that Armstrong has scored in the last year is not the absence of Dack, it is being central.

Its interesting to compare the squads, im not sure there is much in it but Mowbray has had much more time and some of their quality has been upgraded with the management of Warnock. We have the obvious added goal threat with Armstrong, Dack and Elliott as much as Assombolonga, Akpom, Tavernier and the shrewd signing of Watmore do carry a threat. Behind that, both have steady keepers, there isnt much to seperate the right backs where Warnock has revitalised Dijksteel, McNair has been a revelation having moved to CB and Warnock in general can organise a team much better, he has also changed the fortunes of Bola who was a figure of mockery before Warnock came in. Id also much rather play against our midfield compared to the know how of Saville, Howson and Morsy. He certainly is one of our best players but I still dont see the desire to stick with the 433. It hasnt improved us and a fairly small change allows Dack to play in his natural position behind Armstrong.

I would like to know which players 433 specifically suits. There is nothing to suggest that Armstrong would be any less effective still as the central striker but with Dack supporting him.

I see that Chorley have got their game on tonight.

The common consensus is that any sell on fees just go straight back into the running of the club. Anytime anyone has asked Rich Sharpe who has also asked Mowbray, the answer he has got and given is that it wont impact on the transfer budget. Even if he does get sold I doubt the amount we would receive would be very much.

Mccarthy belongs to a group of managers who seem to be considered unfashionable but the job he did at Ipswich considering the only fee he spent up until maybe the last year was Tyrone Mings from non league for a nominal fee was brilliant. He might not be the top of my list but he would be a good appointment.

Armstrong has been scoring for a year now because he has started to play centrally. Have we been created loads of "open goal chances from 2 yards for him" on the back of playing 433? Have we bollocks. Dack is unfit but when he is fit he is critical to our team and you have a short memory for implying anything other than that. Elliott is also far less effective in midfield than on the right. 433 has not been any more effective than 4231 but ultimately you are comparing it against the formation when we played a totlaly different way with Danny Graham. If we intend on playing 433 then there was no point giving Dack a new contract. Why not surely play 4231 whereby we can have Armstrong, Dack and Elliott all in their best position? Its not a major difference but it also allows us potentially additional defensive protection from the other 2 midfielders ahead of a creaky defence. This idea of replicating Liverpool doesnt sit well either. We dont have the same quality of players, we should come up with our own main way of playing.

Hes not match fit though. With Armstrong, hes our best player. The 433 system or the style doesnt seem to suit the team in general. Dack needs chance to get up to speed and by the time he does, he is a million miles more effective than any of the other attacking midfielders. The system hasnt got Armstrong 17 goals, he has. With Dack behind him that should benefit him further.

He did a good job at Southampton, 3 successive 9th place finishes which is the best in the clubs history. Went sour at the end though. Signed quite a few technically gifted players there too. Southampton less so although he did stay up in the first season as was the target.

I think Kaminski, Nyambe, Lenihan, Brainthwaite and Douglas pick themselves in the absence of credible alternatives. Armstrong and Elliott (on the right) should be guaranteed and Dack has to play and in his best position, we need him fit ASAP. So that leaves 3 places up for grabs. Central midfield between 3, Holtby and Davenport with big cases to start, Travis is very rusty but hes our best central midfielder so again do we start him and get him fit too? And on the left, no one has guaranteed a start. Brereton perhaps just over Rothwell and Dolan.

Hes going to say things like this though, he wants to protect and preserve his job and theres nothing wrong with that. It should be based on whats on the pitch which is why he needs to go. No problem with him defending himself.

Mowbray has always struggled to be ruthless when the time comes for summer renewals. Remember when Conway got offered a new deal, when Bennett, Evans, Smallwood, Williams and Mulgrew got new lengthy deals as rewards, when Gladwin got a pity contract, when Smallwood, Hart and Samuel got offered a few weeks extension again for no reason but pity, and the hapless Bell got an extension again last summer. He doesnt have it in him to be ruthless. Williams, Bell, Downing, Bennett and Evans have to be released no question, and Johnson and Holtby still have work to do.

Didnt we win the only game in which a left back played at right back which was one of 2 games in which Johnson played in defence?

It was a very good pass. My point if I recall was more that in a couple of games v 10 men when we was a few up, he looked at home, but I felt that in the other games he looked a little lost. He started v was it Forest and looked embarrassingly out of his depth to the point that I felt sorry for him. I dont see how he gets in the team in his favoured position now that Dack is back. Surely a loan makes sense for all parties?

I dont think he will ever be a stand out Championship midfielder but I would love to be proven wrong. He often takes far too long on the ball which for me suggests that maybe he isnt aware of what is around him.

The Sam Hart extension and some of the others understably aggravated a lot of people, especially at a time when the club was pleading poverty and not offering refunds. It seems hyperbole to suggest that mentioning this is directly stating that Mowbray was to blame for the postponement. I personally dont rate Buckley, as much as I appreciated his goal on Saturday. I understand that he is young but I feel his weaknesses go beyond his obvious physical limitations and that he takes too long on the ball and doesnt appreciate the pictures around him. Praising or indeed criticising a player and the lack of patience you perceive the latter to be is not really relevant, this is a forum to share opinions on players. I dont rate Buckley, I wouldnt have him in the squad and I would loan him out. I wouldnt put money on him making a real impact for us but of course I dont rule it out. But that doesnt mean that people dont support him if he wears a Rovers shirt. I dont share your relaxed attitude towards our repeated habit of conceding first and especially the set pieces which is compounded by the fact that Mowbray has delegated this crucial task and hasnt seen fit to take control again. Both are signs backing up an inability to improve on last seasons results and displaying poor form, if anything these areas seem to be showing decline, not improvement.

I personally havent seen the improvement, we have just been bumbling around mid table, never picking up with points with enough consistency to get close to the top 6 or to improve on last season, with form getting worse and worse. What is the improvement you see? What makes you think we arent far away? You mention getting the first goal but I dont see any logic for assuming that it is something that will change, I believe our record of goals in first halves is poor across Mowbrays tenure here, something Rich Sharpe touched on recently. And you are obviously far less likely to lose games if you score the first goal, but we repeatedly are not doing. Its easier for anyone to win games when a goal up. I just look at various signs too of poor management. We have scored the least from set pieces in the division, we regularly come up with shambolic routines and the manager has not seen fit to intervene, merely allowing his coaches to crack on. We concede far more from set pieces than we score. We also might have a marginally better defensive record compared to last season but clean sheets are few and far between, if you have to score 2 or more to win then you are facing an uphill battle. I also look at performance levels which if anything seem to be getting worse and worse and the style is based on flawed principles. You dont have to dominate possession to win games, especially if it is in ways that cause more problems than benefits, for example, we dont have defenders with the ball playing capabilities to play out from the back, and the shape of the midfield 3 seems to leave it further exposed. The last comment seems unnecessary, who has claimed that the game was postponed seriously because of Mowbray. If anyone has, its a ridiculous belief of someone in the minority. Its not as straightforward as there being 2 camps, but I dont get why we cant at least hope for promotion even under Venkys, who nobody hates more than me. Promotion may be in spite of them, but it takes one good season, one good appointment, and why bother if you cant keep a flicker of hope of success even if it isnt entirely even logical or realistic? When we appointed Coyle, I was fuming but I didnt accept relegation before the season, even though I knew it was possible. I get what you are saying but sometimes a football fan dreams and hopes in the face of logic and probability. I also dont get the fear of not being able to replace a manager who is clearly in a rut, surely if the argument is that Venkys couldnt possibly get better, how did they manage to attract Mowbray in the first place? Whether its pure luck, an agent link, whatever, it is not definite that we would find another Coyle, we could improve on a manager who was on the scrapheap before he came here but has done a good job yet hit a wall.

Out of interest and apologies if posted elsewhere, but solely on the job Mowbray has done and where you deem us to be at the moment, on the assumption that the next manager isnt "another Coyle" would you stick with Mowbray or feel it is time for a change and why?

One thing that really worries me is that Mowbray recently remarked that he delegates set pieces to his coaching staff. Why has he not bothered to intervene considering how bad they are?

Martin O'Neill is certainly not someone we want near the managerial seat. One player didnt make a team but he is a prolific Championship goalscorer in the last year in a mid table team so take him out and its a huge blow. Even if you took out Newcastles chunk, some would invariably go to help balancing the books too. But to adequately replace Armstrong alone and his goal output would be so difficult, it would be a hope of bringing in a few but that is a difficult ask. Just seemed pointless to mention such an unobtainable standard that he wasnt up to. He isnt a potential Balon D'or winner either but hes still a bloody good striker at this level and if we sold him, moved Brereton and his lack of goals there and put Dolan where Brereton goes, we would be massively weaker, make no mistake.

Of course not, but you would like to think that there is more of a broad search available as other clubs have shown rather than look directly to former managers. His record since being here when the club was so much different is underwhelming at best.

Is the side top 6 material? Of course majorly down to Mowbray and issues in the transfer market, but I dont get how it could be considered top 6. Armstrongs goal record make him a top 6 striker. Dack probably could be in with a shout too when fully fit. Chuck in Elliott and there may be enough goals there to mount a top 6 run. Looking further back, none of the centre backs are, the left backs are crap, Nyambe is decent but not sure he is top 6 calibre on par with the likes of Max Aarons, Adam Smith, Connor Roberts, Kiko Femenia etc. Kaminski, I think hes been decent but not sure he has been stand out enough to go next to Ben Foster, Tim Krul, Asmir Begovic, Freddie Woodman etc. Travis is decent, but top 6 calibre? Not too sure about that. And then plenty who flatter to deceive 9 times out of 10, Rothwell, Holtby, Johnson, Brereton etc. I think potentially that a good manager could maybe overachieve and get us in there if the side became well drilled, organised, with clarity and a clear outlook that suited the players here.