Kipre did what everyone would have done in his position, he went to a higher division for more money. In regards to potentially signing, he is a player who excelled at this level last season which would perhaps put him ahead of very young centre backs with little experience that may be available elsewhere, therefore it would be cutting our nose off to spite our face to dismiss the possibility out of pettiness that he didnt join in the first place.

Its not a wonderful thing when hes failed to fix the defence time after time. How people perceived them at the time is irrelevant.

Are the 2 mutually exclusive? Cant we keep the top scorer in the league and bring through the kids as and when deemed the correct time?

Not when at least 2 are made of glass and one was a kid Mowbray didnt trust at that time. Poor recruitment again compounded by Douglas not being up to it.

We seemingly didnt allow Williams to join Swansea due to an inability to match our fee, but Williams has always been below the quality required to go where we supposedly want to go, and he has always had repeated injury problems and an aura of a player who you would not want beside you on the trenches. To replace a departing centre back who pretty much was available every week last season with one solitary replacement with serious injury problems was negligent whichever way you look at it. We have Lenihan, Ayala and Williams all with serious injury histories, if we was to go down the route of signing Ayala and not selling Williams, which was risky, surely you'd sign one more rather than signing TWO central midfielders, one who has had minimal impact in Trybull and one in Downing who Mowbray doesnt seem to consider for starts. There is no defence (ironically) for such negligence and no excuses. Either way, a third summer in a row passed with a failure to assemble a defence capable of having the quality and depth to last the season and keep the goals out. Mowbray didnt even know if he was going to keep Wharton around at the start of the season!

If a sub comes on, scores and does nothing else, he has had a massive impact.

Sorry I meant central defence. Douglas has merely added a player not of a competent level to compete with Bell for a place based on who is the least bad!

In regards to any talk of the referee, has anyone seen back the incident in the first half where they looked to have a strong penalty appeal for a trip by Bell prior to us scoring on the break?

Ayala is out for 4 more weeks with a hamstring strain. Hes becoming a bit of a disaster of a signing in that he was the sole addition to a defence that lost Adarabioyo and hes made of glass. If we are left with Johnson at CB for any period of time it will cost us.

Shoddy and disjointed performance against an absolutely pitiful opponents (far from the only one in a Championship to which its quality is sometimes overstated) but happy with the win, not that it will mean much in the grand scheme of things in mid table, and absolutely made up for Dack at the end. Talk about the referee hating us/being biased against us (he is just generally poor) and wanting defeat to get rid of Mowbray (never sits right and would never happen anyway) is unnecessary IMO. Performance wise, Armstrong does what he does and gets a goal. His numbers in the last year and now hopefully moving into 2021 are absolutely outstanding, as much as he provokes criticism. He is selfish at times, all strikers are, occasionally (one game in particular) counterproductive to the team and he isnt an all round perfect striker but if he keeps scoring so many goals (is that him back as joint top scorer in the division) then he remains absolutely invaluable to us. The only other player we have who regularly contributes came off the bench in Dack and he showed a few brilliant touches, a backheel and a great touch and pass to Gallagher but more importantly he is the type of player who guarantees goals and his finish was excellent. Build around them 2, that is the key. Brereton was really poor today, Elliott wasnt much better and this Gallagher wide nonsense has to stop, he got worse and worse as the game went on. Sub wise, Rothwell was a total liability until he lofted one over to Dolan who had a much better cameo than many of his prior sub appearances in a Rovers shirt and looked a real livewire. Moving back, Travis looked rusty but still was a level above the usual players who have played in central midfield. Davenport was an interesting one, started off very sloppy and at times seems to be a little over enthusiastic and lacking control but he did plenty well too and certainly did his case for further starts little harm. Trybull was ok when he came on too. Johnson was an absolute liability, constantly caught out of position and lucky to be playing against such an impotent attack, he is not a capable deputy in that position. I didnt think Lenihan was too bad, defensively fine if poor on the ball. Bell is frustratingly loose and lackadaisical, regular sloppy touches, mishit passes and a lack of urgency when he is caught out of position. Douglas had a really good first half out of position but them question marks around his defending cropped up in the second. Kaminski had little to do, he was lucky after spilling a speculative shot to see the flag go up but he saved us at the end with goalkeeping similar to Brad Friedel at the end of the Worthington Cup Final against Les Ferdinand!

Armstrong back on the goalscoring trail after a mini drought and as ever our primary threat in attack. When he goes he will be nigh on impossible to replace. Brereton very poor so far, Gallagher not a winger, Elliott involved but a bit loose, Travis rusty, Davenport mixed. Bell all over the shop (was that a penalty before we countered and scored?) whereas Douglas has been very good. Johnson an absolute bomb scare in defence against a dreadful Birmingham side.

100%. If Ainsworth was ever appointed as manager here, the fact that he is a Rovers fan shouldnt come into it.

I think its difficult to argue that the window was a success. Kaminski has been an obvious success story and Elliott possibly the definition of ideal usage of the loan market based on the impact he has had. Conversely, the defence needed fixing again and hasnt been. We needed 2 centre backs and got only one unsuitable to an idealistic style Mowbray wants to play and who is physically incapable of playing regular football, compounded by a failure to sell Williams when given the chance. The left back position remains a huge weakness with Douglas unable to rectify that problem and Bell totally illogically given an extension. Trybull seems no improvement in midfield and Pears doesnt seen to be convincing as a deputy. Most windows under Mowbray have been like that, mixed with obvious success stories littered with failures, quite a lot in the middle and ultimately an inability to ever fix a recurring weakness.

I absolutely despite Venkys, deplore when anyone defends them and have absolutely no faith or trust in them so I totally get your fears. I just know from a personal perspective that if I ever get to the point whereby I embrace a manager whom I believe is stagnating and unable to meet the expectations for a second season running, with the same flaws proving problematic, and still endorsing him to stay on out of pure fear of the resulting manager overseeing a reign of terror, then I probably will question my own enthusiasm at that point. Its not something I can get behind. I feel like he has taken us as far as we can go, we are now regressing, I wont defend him just because someone else could be worse.

I feel like the refusal to say that failure (again) to meet expectations does not necessarily lead to any responsibility or accountability. If he hits targets, he stays because he has done well. If he fails, he stays in fear of appointing someone disastrously worse. The agency thing is a bit of guesswork, I am advising as to what I would like to do, surely you accept that the fear of "appointing another Coyle" is not a very flattering reason to keep a manager and if that is genuinely your worry, surely its only delaying the inevitable! Happy New Year and lets hope Mowbray pulls off an unlikely 2021 miracle and gets us up!

Regarding Mowbray, do you: 1. Still think there is a chance of a top 6 finish? 2. Would you automatically 100% want Mowbray sacked should we fail to achieve a top 6 place this season?

Sadly it just seems like the season is already over for us, even if we had a new manager and a couple of players, to jump past 8 teams and make up 8 points as well as getting top 6 form that has eluded us for years, its such a long shot, never mind under the current stagnation. God knows what sort of defence we will cobble together, under absolutely no circumstance should Buckley play at right back. (or at all) Would love Dack to start, even Travis if remotely possible next to Downing, rather than the usual group of midfielders who flatter to deceive. The biggest frustration is that I am enough of an idiot to inevitably buy another tenner pass to watch it!

If our striker who has scored 27 goals this year is overrated then I dread to think what the rest of our players are. He slipped in Elliott in the first minute and then soon after he in a shooting position let the ball run again for Elliott to shoot.

The two aspects to the argument that I struggle to agree with are firstly that him being a defender will mean that he can automatically fix our defence, Tony Mowbray is a great example that there is a world of difference between being a good/great defender and organising a good defence as a manager. I also dont feel comfortable with forcing management teams and shoehorning people together, if we was to go down the route of John Terry, he should choose his own team. To be fair, the Championship recently has perhaps proved that there are various methods from which route to go down. Barnsley and Reading have made brilliant appointments from abroad, if we was a normal functioning club then we would have to look abroad. There is also the tried and tested manager route which always has to be at the forefront of a decision, someone like Warnock (obviously not available now) or maybe a Pearson would naturally be a very logical choice. I am very surprised to see how much of an improvement that Wayne Rooney has overseen at Derby too, an innovative young manager would need to be studied but can sometimes be very rewarding.

I havent said that we "wouldnt score any goals" but I think it is a fair suggestion that if a team in 14th place lost the 2nd top scorer in the League, that we would score fewer goals. Regarding the situation around his future, an ideal scenario would be that Armstrong signs a long term contract and is a key asset for any incoming manager as soon as possible. The problem is that I dont see it as being in his best interests to sign a new deal so ultimately we may have to sell by the summer at the latest. That Bristol City performance seems to have done more damage to his reputation than scoring 27 goals (a brilliant record no matter how its spun) in a year has done to boost it. All goalscorers have a level of selfishness and usually I think Armstrong's is pretty healthy, last night he chose more than once to pass to better placed team mates when he could have shot. He was awful v Bristol City and whether it was frustration or whatever, his shooting was in that case detrimental. But its one match, he doesnt have 10 (was it?) shots every game.

I must say that I have never heard a player come out and say "I dont think the manager is any good, hes lost the dressing room, we are regressing but I am getting my wages doubled so ive signed on." I dont necessarily think he has lost it as I mentioned in another thread, but hes lost more games than hes won this year, its not good enough. Surely you dont genuinely believe that Mowbray in this half of the season can get enough points against all previous logic and get into the top 6?

I dont see why suggestions that hes lost the dressing room need to be made to be honest. I personally dont see that but managers are always judged on results and his arent good enough to suggest any signs of improvement and thats enough for me to know that he needs to be removed.

Moving Mowbray upstairs would surely be massively counter productive even if he was willing to swallow his pride and agree to it. We are stagnant and starting to regress, we need a new voice and new ideas. We dont need the old manager lingering upstairs getting in the way. His recruitment has been mixed at best, some undoubted huge successes, some expensive curiosities, a lorry load of signings who have contributed very little, and the repeated negligence towards the same issue in an inbalanced squad.

I think the opposite on Dack, I wonder if he regrets signing a new deal. He has had 2 sub appearances following 12 months out, one in which he made an obvious difference, yesterday he didnt but the side had lost all structure and he was simply being bypassed. He is still a very capable Championship player and a key player for us. Regarding players getting goals "if their only job is shoot," if it was that simple surely every team would have a prolific goalscorer?

I think surely the penny has dropped as we lay in 14th with more losses than wins at the turn of the year, that we are not in contention for promotion this season?