Wigans defensive record improved massively in the second half of the season when they had Kipre and Balogun at CB. Mulgrew surely wouldnt have come back had he been likely to continue in their team. Hes not Championship standard.

Like I said, pace isnt essential, the ability to get up and down very much is. But when he plays he does get up and down and gave us an extra dimension pushing on. Unless that has changed with the injury.

Is there? I know we press higher up but there has been a lot of passing at the back in the opening games, especially at Newcastle. As you say though, he is a top quality defender at his level. I personally think that like Ayala, Cunningham is at a good age in terms of giving experience to a young side, he like Nyambe on the other side is capable defensively which is key, as if we leave the centre backs isolated too often, we will continue to concede goals. And I think he is a considerable upgrade going forward on any of our current full backs. Injuries are the main concern, and I dont expect him to sign, although I would be pleasantly surprised.

@JoeH what are your views on the Ayala deal out of interest? In terms of the reasons you gave for Cunningham not being the signing you want, Ayala falls down on the same points. Age? 29 like Cunningham, an age you described as "much older than would be ideal." Injuries? Has suffered with various injuries at Boro, 35 games is the maximum he played in a season, hasnt played since new years day due to ankle issues, and Boro fans have a running joke that he takes January through March off. Attributes to play Mowbrays system? Of course, his requirements for a centre back will be different to that of his full backs, but Ayala doesnt seem to really fit them. He is certainly not a ball playing centre back, Cunningham was a big upgrade technically, Ayala will be a huge downgrade on the ball compared to Adarabioyo, functional rather than anything else. He is also not the quickest. If we spend all season with both full backs pushed high up, he could well be exposed. I personally think (goes against me putting a dampener on everything!) that Ayala is a very good signing on the face of it, despite all of this. I consider his age a good thing, he brings experience, he brings know how, leadership, things that wont be measured by data, but he knows how to defend, how to win games, how to keep clean sheets and indeed how to get out of this league. We have lots of young players so experience is what the doctor ordered. Someone like Naby Sarr would have ticked all of these boxes. A couple of years younger, technically much better, I dont think he has had injuries. But he is a shit defender.

By both sides, I meant that he is capable both defensively and going forward, not as a right and a left back, As I showed with Rankin Costello, you dont need to be really fast to play that role, even in "Mowbray's system." I am unsure why you think it is critical. Rankin Costello wouldnt be considered there otherwise, he isnt fast but like Cunningham he can get up and down. If I was suggesting playing a veteran there, or a centre back, then I'd get your point. I think you are underestimating his ability to go forward, in his games last year he regularly did. That being said, I have always been wary that we shouldnt be signing really attacking full backs just to "fit Mowbrays system." Nyambe isnt really attacking. If there isnt at times an element of compromise with the full backs, the goals will keep going in to our net I suspect, and it is key that whoever we sign can defend. He is the same age as Ayala, 29. We have plenty of young talent in the team, having the experience of Cunningham and Ayala would be a big help when it comes to game management. We have lost the likes of Graham and Downing and Mowbray has stated that playing too many youngsters may breed inconsistency, and he is correct. "Revered as a god" No, just as a very competent Championship full back whose inclusion led to an increase in points that we were accumulating, and a reduction in the goals we were conceding. And obviously someone we are all familiar with, hence his repeated mentions. Wages, we are only guessing, we managed to do a deal last year. I dont think he holds much value to Cardiff, he hasnt made their squad yet, of course factor in the injury, he has a year left. I am not saying that we can or cannot afford him, I have no idea but its not a crazy suggestion. The injuries, or specifically the injury he suffered last year, that is undoubtedly the primary concern. I dont think we will sign Cunningham, he is mentioned not because he is likely to sign again but because he is someone that we all are familiar with. Mowbray never said that we couldnt afford Ayala at any point though.

The one downside to Cunningham is undoubtedly the injury concern. Otherwise, everything is a tick, good going forward, solid defensively, good experience, a good balanced full back who can do both sides. There may be a deal to do for someone but unless something changes massively, that clearly wont be us with our budget. Rankin Costello like Bell was very high up but ultimately, his crossing was poor and tended to go straight to the keeper.

Keeping a level of contact and communication. It wouldnt have been pointless to people who felt out of the loop. They were, but my point has been proven by what has happened. They thought it was clear to release the season tickets because the "signs" suggested we could come back. There was always a large chance of a sudden change, ultimately whenever they would have released season tickets, they would have done so amidst uncertainty. That has been proven because they thought they knew and due to the fluidity of the pandemic it had spun on its head after a week. Hence why, with the same structure of a back up option of ifollow and deferred income, they should have been released them far sooner, and of course cheaper. Ultimately I cannot see what the club could offer to those who dont want to watch ifollow that they would be interested in to be fair. Cant believe I am defending the club and you are criticising haha! Maybe like a few other clubs, the option of a small fee paid which acts as sort of a deposit for the seat and then buy the tickets individually for any games we can attend during the season?

Not the point that I was making, which was pointing out that pace is not criticial to being a full back in our current team. If the fee for Cunningham is out of reach then the fee for Manning certainly is hence the manager categorically stating that we cannot afford him. Manning may be the better investment opportunity but the common consensus is, excellent attacking full back but poor defensively. Cunningham can do both sides. I would also say that Rankin Costello like Bell last week was very poor with his final ball.

As I said, Rankin Costello isnt very quick but Mowbray plays him at full back. Cunningham can get up and down and more importantly can defend and attack well for a full back. No matter what the system is, if your full back cannot defend it will cause issues. But he regularly got up and down and with quality. You are speaking as if hes a slow centre back playing at left back who simply cannot get forward.

Im not sure the suggestion is that people feel cheated. The situation was pretty clear. It is other aspects of the season tickets that have come under the brunt of the criticism.

Absolutely. I was mainly commenting on your comments about his salary being potentially partially based on bonuses. I dont see how he could have achieved his bonuses to be paid them.

I would have to disagree, I thought he was good going forward, you dont need to be really quick, he played Rankin Costello there last week and he isnt quick. Cunningham could get up and down, of course until he got his injury.

If it was based on salary and bonus, it would only be expenditure in the acccounts if the bonus was achieved. We failed to meet season ticket sales and failed to hit the (perhaps ambitious) pre season target of a top 6 finish, so how would he have hit any targets? Ultimately, he isnt proving value for money with his work at the club so far.

Its not acceptable not to say an official word for 6 months. Even if it is just the clubs take on official statements, or reassuring people as a means of keeping contact. Do you agree that the excuse causing the delays in releasing season tickets, that they wanted to know what they were selling. They never could know what they were selling. That was proven because they thought they knew and the situation changed in a week. Ultimately the season passes were structured to cover if games were behind closed doors, so they could have released them in good faith a month before, sold many more. That uncertainty could never change regardless of when sales started. Yep the price rise is a stupid decision. Fair point but the difference compared to last season is that anyone buying a season ticket is doing so knowing that there is a strong chance that games wont go ahead. Last season to be fair it was a bit different in that people didnt know prior to buying a season ticket that they could be paying for ifollow links, this season they do.

To be honest, I think it might be difficult to get them to sign. Armstrong and Dack in particular would probably be best advised to hold off, and if we dont go up and there are teams sniffing around, the power is with them.

I am saying that the structure of the season tickets is the correct one. Ifollow links and the rest deferred as a refund on next year. Preston's offer is commendable, offering an immediate refund. Maybe it will turn into a masterstroke with very few people taking up the offer and the relationship between the fans as customers and the club being strengthened due to the goodwill of the gesture. But I totally understand Rovers in terms of how they have structured the season passes. Had the deferred refund not been offered, that would have been poor, but thankfully it was. One thing that it does prove is that it was senseless to wait so long to put the season tickets on sale on the basis that they wanted to know what they were selling. They never could have know what they were selling, indeed what they thought they were selling changed a week after

To be fair, whilst I do agree that an immediate refund is a very commendable but perhaps risky choice for Preston to make, have we spent some money? We signed Ayala on a free who whilst he is possibly towards the top of our wage bill, it is still a fraction of the wage savings made by letting go numerous players as we did. And Kaminski was a modest fee really. Of course I am not judging them as signings individually by saying that, nor am I saying that we should be spending loads of money at this stage. Pearson is not unique in that situation, Davies and Johnson are both on one remaining year and are attracting suitors. I worry next season that we will be in the same boat with Lenihan, Dack and Armstrong, with Nyambe already out of contract unless we either go up or get any of them to sign new deals which would be difficult. Yeah, and I am saying that the structure of our season tickets is something that I agree with. Helps cashflow, ensures that some fans are probably going to get (discounted) season tickets next year, yet also ensures that fans are getting some value from their season ticket. It is the lack of communication, the tone of the marketing campaign, the late timing of the release of the season tickets and the totally unnecessary price rise that I disagree with. Preston wont do no but they will get a full refund so they could pick whichever ifollow links they wanted and s

Cunningham is good going forward and also technically good, has a good cross on him too. Bell is just as bad going forward as he is at defending, I dont think hes ever assisted a goal in god knows how many Championship games, on the rare occasions when he gets near the opposition box without turning back, he spoons his cross well over the bar. Of course, Cunningham can also defend very well which has to be the main priority from a full back. He would be ideal because it would mean that both full backs can defend because if we leave it down to our 2 centre backs, we will concede regardless of how good a signing Ayala proves to be.

I agree that an immediate refund isnt a necessary option. However, I dont get how you could argue that carrying the money over shouldnt be mandatory, and indeed to be fair, it is something that Rovers are doing. Preston are presumably concentrating on the long game in terms of keeping fans happy by offering all options. You cant offer no alternative of a refund, but a deferred one keeps the cash flow intact and partially guarantees season ticket holders next season too. Rovers approach has had many areas of criticism, communication, advertising policy, timing of release and definitely price, but the actual structure of the season tickets are at least something that Waggott got right.

Everything is relative. There is plenty of positivity too, some maybe over the top but understandable, but it isnt 100% doom as some portray, but we shouldnt just be content and not harbour expectations and judgements just on the basis that we arent a Bolton or as much of an instable mess as we have been in the past 10 years. If you are grateful for that then surely the results are immaterial as long as everything remains calm. Its good that we are at least desperate to push on.

I thought you only cared about transfers?

Fair enough, the accounts very much indicate that it is his salary.

Just interested enough to deny it in an attempt to defend him and the club until the inevitable tangent that comes when you receive more information (that apparently you already know) that essentially proves otherwise.

@chaddyrovers the accounts show that there are 4 directors, Waggott, Cheston, Gandhi Babu and Coar. The previous accounts show the same 4 directors but Waggott was only employed by the club for 6 of the 12 months here. The highest paid director was paid £319,329 in the latest accounts, and the highest director remuneration was £144,448 in the previous year, so just under half. Baring in mind that Waggott is the CEO and the highest director payment doubled and the only change in the 4 directors was Waggott being here for 12 months rather than 6, it is safe to say that Waggott is definitely the person who received the £319,329.

Yeah the price was an absolute crazy decision on two different levels. People focus on the morality of it, how its treating fans etc but to be honest, I can understand a CEO with no emotional ties to the club treating supporters as customers, the problem is his current strategy or indeed any of his strategies lack any business sense, and he isnt learning. As you say, there is reduced demand, and I think he underappreciates that there is some elasticity in the price when he tries to cash in on the hardcore. As I said yesterday, even without factoring in the long term ramifications of losing fans, you put the price up from £350 to £400 and one fan refusing out of principle would need 7 other people to buy a season ticket to compensate and get that missing income back. Its about perception too. If they had say put the prices down £50 rather than up £50, undoubtedly people would have been more willing to help out, when even in the worst case scenario, which seems to be playing out, all that would have technically happened is that the deposit of deferred income would be smaller on next years season ticket. At the very minimum, it had to be a price freeze. There is a balance between maximising quantity by keeping prices low, and getting the most from each individual season ticket by charging high prices, there is somewhere in the middle where you get the optimum balance and Waggott always tries to achieve the latter and messes it up. I maintained throughout when people defending the club for waiting (the lack of communication amidst was salt in the wounds) to see what the service was that they could offer made no sense because they would never know. That was proved correct when they released season tickets thinking that fans could come back, a week later and it seems like the majority of the seasons is behind closed doors. You mention Bolton, but they have far outsold us, partially because they have loads more time for people to buy season tickets. We had to bring them out sooner. That risk of the uncertainty of the service would have always existed.