roversfan99

I would be very surprised to see us spend a fee this summer. In fact I think it would be distasteful if the transfer window saw anything like normal spending. I dont see how it is possible even for the big teams this year.

If we are taking without argument and debate that the season is going to be finished for the Premier League, Championship and perhaps League 1, then fair enough, in the absence of any possibility of a truly fair conclusion, playing the games behind closed doors and actually finishing the season seems the fairest way to conclude things, if logistics allow. Whilst morals and safety issue come into that debate, if you put them to one side and just ask what is the fairest possible way, at least that involves playing a full fixture list out. Certainly dont disagree there. Its the issue of points per game fuelled finalised league tables v null and void that seems to cause controversy now. I appreciate that cancelling a season as null and void is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination but it goes without saying that a season is far from over with a quarter still to go. The season was halted suddenly and ultimately in these leagues cannot be feasibly concluded but you cant just start changing divisions based on where a team was when that sudden halt came into play. There are 2 differently affected scenarios. Where 2 non completed leagues meet, and where a concluded league meets an unconcluded league. The latter scenario also would show blatant inconsistency and disregard to any integrity. You cant extrapolate divisions based on three quarters of a season, with differing difficulties of fixtures left remaining. A season is either completed or it isnt.

100%. Youve either completed a season or you havent.

It might be the fairest way to allow League 1 clubs to decide if they can conclude the league or not perhaps. But points per game should not be an option. Finish in full or not at all. Also no way will prevent the risk of legal action, this is something you cannot seem to grasped. No matter what the conclusion is, there will be teams that miss out on promotion, that are relegated etc that wouldnt have been had another method been used. Im sute that Peterboroughs idiotic chairman has insinuated that it wont be the end of the matter if they use points per game for example. My suggestion ensures that the season is either finished IN FULL or not at all, no half measures. Its the points per game thing that really I am opposed too. It is a ridicilious half measure that shouldnt be considered. As I have said, I suspect that you are either purposely not grasping my simple proposal (finish divisions until the point where it becomes impossible logistically, the leagues that are finished incur titles, promotions and relegations as normal, up until the point where divisions cannot be completed as to which the season is written off) for wind up purposes or you cannot understand said simple proposal. If its the former more fool me, if its the latter more fool us both, either way more fool every poor bugger who has had to read it ?

Haha beyond that I think!

In my opinion, you have made 2 huge errors in understanding my points, either accidentally or purposely which are clouding your judgement. Number 1, you have misunderstood my suggestion. It is a simple rule, if leagues are completed, then promotions and relegations go ahead. Moving down the leagues, once you get to the point that a division CANNOT be completed, then at that point as a complete rule going downwards, there are no promotions/relegations. You cannot relegate and promote teams on incomplete seasons. I have repeatedly said that my suggestion, accepting that as a minimum the top 2 divisions are going to be completed, Premier League and promotion chasing Championship clubs will NOT be affected as you seem to have misunderstood. Promotions and relegations between those divisions CAN be allowed because both divisions will have completed the full set of fixtures, including play offs, therefore it is then as fair as it is going to be to promote and relegate 3 clubs between these as normal. It is unfair to promote and relegate teams based on an unfinished season, that is my point, and extrapolating results is not a fair way of doing so, it is not the best remaining way to do so, it would make a mockery of the integrity of the football league. This would be typically prevalent where the lowest complete league meets the highest incomplete league, and you throw inconsistency into the mix, replacing teams that have played 46 teams from one league with games who have played 30 odd games. Number 2, you have failed to grasp that there is NO 100% fair way in the current situation, and there will be winners and losers to all suggestions, so you cant sympathise and empathise with individual clubs and pander to them, you have to look at the overall picture. For every Coventry, there is a Peterborough, for every Wycombe, there is an Accrington Stanley, for every Charlton there is a Sunderland. Theres also a touch of personal bias mentioning Rovers but see point number 1 as to how we wont be affected anyway) All you can do is come up with the fairest way. Assuming that some divisions will be completed, how I have outlined in Point 1 is not perfect, no way is, but IMO the most consistent, fair and common sense approach to a very difficult situation. If they need to vote to determine if League 1 can be completed, then fine, and if it can, it still all falls under my proposal above.

What you dont seem to appreciate is that I am talking specifically where 2 leagues meet where one is completed and one isnt. The reason that I used the word flexibility is because you keep reverting back to rules set in stone in the early 90s that simply cannot be prioritised within such a unique situation. In League 2, it was a unanimous decision because it is logistically and financially impossible as agreed by all clubs to complete the season. Its not as straightforward above that. I hardly think having an attitude of "decide amongst yourself" is showing great leadership. I was opposed to the restart at all on safety grounds and moral grounds but am looking past that now and accepting that some leagues are going to be completed. Its nothing to be excited about but its possibly the fairest way. But what I am clinging onto is that they should only complete the seasons to which the season can actually be completed. Clinging onto rules rigidly that simply do not account for such unprecedented events to try and justify a bizarre necessity to relegate and promote, even based on totally unfair formulaes makes absolutely zero sense and makes an absolute mockery of the supposed integrity and fairness of football in this country. I do think that allowing clubs to vote opens up a can of worms in terms of self interest but that is not my main expectation. I just cannot fathom why they are using this points per game shite. Whatever the leagues that can be completed, ie the Prem, Championship and if possible League 1, complete and award titles, promotions and relegations between those divisions. Beneath that, the divisions unfortunately CANNOT be completed so no promotions and relegations, including between the top division unable to be completed and the bottom division that is able to be completed.

Following the money is not necessarily a negative trait. A footballers career is short, some footballers see their career solely as a job and we are all motivated by money to some degree. Gestede made a move we all would have made in his situation, he on the back of success at Championship level joined at that time a club doing better and moved up a step. His lack of recent football is a red flag and turning 29 soon you do question how long his primary asset of pace will last. That being said, my main analysis comes from having seen him play quite a few times at Wolves and mainly at Huddersfield. He has talent but has never shown it on a consistent basis ans is a very frustrating player. I do think the wide positions are particularly weak at Rovers and should have been made priority this summer once the loanees had been replaced, had this been a normal summer. As it is, I suspect that this may prove very difficult considering the current situation. I dont think there will be anything in this rumour anyway if I had to guess.

I think any rumour like this has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, even before considering the current situation, its seemingly an agent trying to drum up interest. In terms of the player himself, he ticks a few boxes, a fast winger is something we desperately lack and hes free. But hes spent the peak years of his career playing very little football and hes incredibly frustrating and inconsistent. The type to score or assist and then do nothing at all for 7 or 8 games. One id swerve I think.

The agreement didnt account for such an extraordinary and unprecedented situation though. You can't just stick to that as if its a strict rule, if ever there was time for some flexibility... All I am saying is that now it is clear that some leagues will be finished, surely some common sense comes in. The integrity of the season is long gone, no method of conclusion is fair. But consistency is maybe all we can ask for. If you cant see the unfairness and the inconsistency of relegating 3 teams based on finishing a season behind closed doors, all games played at least, and then replacing them with 3 teams calculated on a formula who hadnt finished their season, then more fool you. If you also cant see how teams in the main will vote for what suits their clubs current League situation then you are more naive than you think, its the obvious flaw of all of these votes. It was clear that League 2 clubs couldnt afford to finish and they did well to just universally agree but in the top 3 leagues there is potential scope to finish. Who was the first team in the Championship to ask for the season to be scrapped? A Hull team dropping like a stone. Whereas Charlton are desperate to finish. Your mindset is, there is an agreement, it has to be honoured and balls to the extent of the pandemic and the uniqueness of the situation, and balls to being flexible, the FA's decision will be the correct one. Some consistency, common sense, flexibility and an acceptance that "sporting integrity" cannot be fully maintained regardless but as much as possible should be kept is what I ask. Not blindly accept that a rigid agreement made before a one off world wide pandemic justifies these bollocks formulaes that are being used.

Absolutely. For me out of all of it, its the inconsistency that drives me crazy. As you touch on there is going to be unfairness regardless of the situation but promotion on PPG to relegate teams who have had all 46 games is the unfairest method of all. You cant be using formulaes to complete seasons for me. It is either safe to finish it or it isnt. You then have a clean break between completed divisions and divisions that have had to write the season off. So much can change in the final games as you mention, I know the Championship would probably finish regardless now but an example would have been that Charlton dropped into the bottom 3 I think for the first time on the last weekend of played football.

Using mathematical formulaes to decide promotions is unfair, full stop. Its a half arsed, inconsistent method whereby teams are being relegated after 46 games and promoted after 30 odd games to replace them. Its a load of bollocks. You either can finish the season and you do, or you cant and you dont. Ultimately, as with a lot of situations, whether it be the FA, the Tory Government, Venkys or indeed Mowbray, your instinct to support and defend comes before your ability to come to any constructive feedback. Thus in this case, you have chosen one of your usual deflection tactics, sometimes you refer back to supposed explanations that you have "given in the past" and in this case you reference thought processes from someone else that you name, but in both cases you refuse to state the argument. In this case you have admitted that you dont even know why Parry thinks promotion and relegation is compulsory as you "wasnt in the meeting" but agree with it anyway. As you know, I felt that resuming the season was in terms of safety and also morals, the wrong thing to do. With players back training and testing underway I feel that such a debate is now fairly moot. But one thing I do strongly believe HAS to happen is a bit of consistency and no silly half measures or points per game ratios. Getting teams to vote on it is inherently flawed because ultimately teams will vote based on their own interests. Surely it should be, the leagues that finish do so as normal up until the last league in which no relegations happen as there are a lack of teams who have completed promotion seasons to replace them.

If it was unfeasible to finish the season, it would be absolutely crazy to use a mathematical formula, at that point it would have to be null and void. If they can only play the top 2 or 3 leagues, there is absolutely no justifiable way that there can be relegation from the lowest playable league and promotion based on formulaes from the unfinished league below. If that happens then the system is an absolute joke. Ive been told that it does need to be like that but not why as of yet.

Very true that professional footballers want to win every match, crowd or otherwise and indeed even training matches. But having a crowd will help add a percentage of motivation. You would think that plus in terms of away games, we have more left than home games so another slight advantage in what is a situation that has an unavoidable unfairness about it.

I felt it was particularly prevalent today as to how sanitised behind closed doors football was because of what was at stake, ie the title. I personally would say it is naive to suggest that an empty stadium does not lessen the impact of a game, especially an important one. It feels like a precession and going through the motions. There are various reasons for this. The main one is something that is in the back of my mind and surely every player and fan alike. When that title is lifted, it will be in front of an empty stadium. One for the history books but not one able to be cherished and celebrated in unison. In regards solely to this game, of course there were no real celebrations at the end in terms of players and fans. It was noticeable how limp the end of the game was, Dortmund needed a result, I appreciate there are tactical and personnel limitations but there was no feel of a critical game, youd have one of the most atmospheric grounds baying for a goal, maybe theyd have chucked Hummels up top for 5 minutes and gone direct but nothing like that. It felt like going through the motions. The commentators said there have been 3 home wins in 22 games, showing how home advantage is now obsolete. I dont want it to seem like I am only willing to consider things that strengthen my point. The standard of the game again was very watchable and indeed outside factors being removed I think increase the time the ball may be on the pitch, although that assumption would need statistics to prove. A few more minor points to add. 5 subs is something I am not fond of and a symptom of rushing loads of games in at once. The commentator said there were more bookings for staff members for dissent now they could be heard. And I think VAR helps to limit attempts of cheating as much as I dislike it overall. I personally dont think there is any doubt as to the fact that no supporters is to the detriment of football, it is to what extent and to be honest its slightly more affected than I expected or realised beforehand. Watchable but also without its edge.

Dont know if anyone watched the Dortmund and Bayern game earlier. Not the most open game but played at a very high technical standard as youd expect and it would be interesting to see how much time the ball spends on the pitch with no fans compared to with fans, I suspect it is longer. I think as a huge game it really highlighted exactly how the "new" normal match really is so much inferior compared to a game in front of fans. Although the actual football was very watchable it did have the feel of an unimportant training game rather than a potential title decider. Kimmich scored a lovely chip just before half time (aided by poor goalkeeping) and Dortmund had to play the last half hour without Haaland so did naturally lack a cutting edge against a top class, experienced Bayern side. That being said there wasnt really a flicker of a late rally and it was a different game without 80k Dortmund fans aiding their cause. It did not feel like a decisive day in a title battle at all.

I think they havent come close to repairing the damage they did (and to my knowledge never took responsibility or apologised for) but it is easy and perhaps preferable, given they are out of sight and out of mind, to just focus on moving forwards with them not in the picture I suppose. I dont get people who have fully forgiven them or are willing and always on hand to praise and defend them to be fair, but each to their own. My personal preference is for them to stay in the background silently and then I can carry on as if they dont exist, save for selling up and removing their stench entirely but I appreciate that is not going to happen. But we are digressing.

To be fair I have no interest in what they think or want to say anyway but I dont think its a tactical decision to "let" Mowbray and Waggott do their talking. I suspect it is primarily a lack of real interest and warmth. I dont see what their incompetence regarding mistakes with agents has anything to do with their approach. As @Mattyblue points out it has been constant silence throughout.

Opinion online on forums and indeed the crazy world of twitter etc is totally different, indeed even at the lower points during Mowbrays reign there has never been close to a outcry for his head. The worst its got being either against Doncaster or away at Oldham after relegation when even then it was more youre not fit to wear the shirt at the players. Again even with Bowyer it was very supportive throughout at the ground really, opinions moreso again online became more split the season after when it was clear that we had spurned 2 key chances and the wheels started to fall off with an embargo etc but there was never calling for his head at the ground. You also mention fickleness specific to Rovers then go on to suggest the same for Leeds. And also seemingly imply that the Brereton booing was wrong moreso because of who it was aimed at!

Yeah I would definitely agree with @Mattyblue that it is disingenous to suggest that the Ewood crowd is difficult to play in front of or a particularly fickle one. Regarding the player himself, I think its perhaps overanalysing it to put it down to his mental strength, to be honest, I just dont think hes particularly good. He must have a modicum of ability to have gotten this far, maybe he has riden the crest of a wave having had a good game on TV against an about to retire Per Mertesacker who he did get the better of but even then only scored a solitary penalty. If that was enough proof then what a player Brett Emerton would have been after that Wolves game. I dont recall any booing really towards him, I didnt go to Birmingham in the cup though but sarcastic cheering and the odd boo is hardly a new phenomenon, to be pedantic wasnt at Ewood, and to be honest having watched both that and the Forest game, followed 2 really poor, limp and perhaps somewhat heartless performances from the player. I dont condone or endorse it but I do think it was made too much of a big deal of after it happened. I also dont think the fans have particularly high expectations either. Rovers fans get overly excited when we are anywhere in the top half of the Championship these days.

Absolutely. Say the best case scenario of us winning the play off final. Of course there is going to be some happiness as there would always be, but successful seasons dont come around that often, and wed be missing out on the experience of getting into the play offs, then winning the semi final to get to Wembley, then winning at Wembley where we havent been for 28 years, then much if not all of a first season of Premier League football as a reward.

I think you are living in a fantasy land if you think that football in what you correctly point out has to be "the new normal" is going to feel exactly the same. It is essentially going through the motions until we can return to normality.

I think you are in a bit of denial as to the part supporters play in football and how different it is without them. Maybe their impact will only dawn on you when you watch a few games without them. And its different watching a one off game with them because you know they will be back in the next game. I really dont think youll feel the same even when Rovers win. European football and players travelling from country to country should be last on the agenda and there is no flimsy reason of trying to financially save clubs with it being the biggest ones. I dont live in a dream world thinking a vaccine is imminent, indeed I am skeptical that one will ever come, I suspect that the time that supporers will be allowed back in will be when the threat ie the rate of infection has dropped low enough for the risk to be greatly reduced. But with the cost of testing players being huge and no supporters coming in, is it sustainable to have half or most likely a full season behind closed doors? At the moment these seasons are being rushed to completion. And surely the football league certainly cannot go ahead financially. To be fair the players that have mainly shown reluctance are ones who either themselves or their family fall into high risk categories.

Why on earth would I want anyone to contract coronavirus? It was a genuine question as the other day I read that the results were very much confidential and I was thus surprised to see Rovers come out with that tweet. Ultimately I have since seen another team tweet similar so maybe it is common place. Your comment on me being opposed to playing behind closed doors "on principle" due to being against the idea of re-introducing football is totally ludicrous too. I like you and everyone else love watching football and miss it as much as anyone, so what you have to remember is me being skeptical of its reintroduction is not a natural instinctive reaction, it goes against my wants and needs of wanting to watch football again. The thing is you and chaddy are speaking from very stubborn points of view, whereby chaddy wants football back and turns a blind eye towards any possible points towards not bringing football back, living in somewhat of a fantasy world, whereas you have been dismissive of a pandemic right from the start. Indeed, I did comment that the standard of the games technically and in terms of tempo has been maintained much better than I had expected, something not consistent with a desire to dismiss any notion of the reintroduction of football. I did expect the actual footballing product on show to be diluted or inferior, with even silly ideas mentioned like turning away when tackling etc, and to be fair I am not sure that is the case, that was an area of doubt I had that I am satisfied has not been noticeably affected. Leipzig today played some brilliant football to watch, and Bayern Munich yesterday also played some very good football, and there was an element of jeopardy momentarily when they were pegged back to 3-2. The aspect of behind closed doors that I did not appreciate is the overall atmospheric situation of it, and how removing that, even if the football is the same, takes the buzz away from it. I was excited to see football back last week and logistically I think that the Bundesliga have pulled it off as well as is feasibly possible. There also doesnt seem to be the issue of players refusing to come back for whatever reason, another hurdle we would need to appreciate, understand and overcome. It isnt even that the fans arent there in the individual games necessarily either. You just realise that something is missing, usually a title race between 2 fantastic teams such as Bayern Munich and Dortmund would be exciting, ultimately though the games seem somewhat of a clinical obligation in the absence of fans, with the better footballing sides benefiting. But whoever wins the league, you just know watching it that no matter how tightly run the winner is, the elation of winning it will be massively subdued. I appreciate that I have not got an active interest in the Bundesliga, and to be honest dont really understand peoples need to make a temporary attachment to a team to enjoy it, but conversely the main league that I watch is the Premier League due to its coverage and I don't have a positive attachment to any teams in there either. I actually think though that if I did have an attachment, for example take the unlikely scenario in which Rovers made the play offs behind closed doors, that would be when the different surely would be most apparent. The usual feeling of elation of a successful season which rarely come around would probably be minimised with more of an anticlimactic and even bitter feeling more apparent at the fact that a potential trip to Wembley was taken away, a potential memorable day getting promotion was taken away, and even some if not all of the reward of the following season being taken away. This is why I refuse to accept that anyone could be as equally delighted as they would have been had the pandemic not occured, and indeed for other clubs, take Liverpool, Leeds etc for example, the closure of finishing the season will not just be a normal feeling. My feelings on the immorality on the testing needed, and my doubts on the necessity of risking players health, players not being willing to come back, the impossibility of maintaining the integrity etc still all remain, but ultimately it seems past that point when the football is back. I have just realised that although I don't really care for platitudes like "football is nothing without fans" I really dont think it is. I think that behind closed doors football in my own opinion should be minimised. For example, if we assumed that we could play in front of fans from January onwards, maybe optimistic, then I would happily null and void this season, and just start the next season as delayed as possible, to get the vast majority if not all of next season in front of fans, maybe using the Euros, European competitions, even cup competitions etc as collateral to save time and work up until and around the winter World Cup in Qatar. Of course, the problem is the uncertainty of when we can play in front of fans again.

Find it very strange that Rovers have come out and stated that we have no positive tests, have any other Championship clubs done the same? Maybe you will be different but I don't think you appreciate the difference, youve uttered the phrase "become a TV sport" so many times that I think you dont fully realise quite how different it will be, how diluted it is, how sanitized it is and how the novelty will almost certaintly wear off fairly quickly. I have watched the Bundesliga and one thing I will say that shows that I am not single minded enough to only consider one side of the argument is that the actual quality of the games have been good, there isnt a massive reduction in tempo, there doesnt seem to be an overriding fear in terms of physical contact, I have Leipzig on now and they have been incredibly good, the Bayern game was good last night, Dortmund are good to watch. One thing that I would say is that being behind closed doors does perhaps favour the better teams. But when it came back last week, football was back, I was excited, within half an hour of the first game I was half watching, it wasnt the same. I believe you dont have BT so you might not appreciate how different it is until youve watched it yourself. It is more the overall feeling that you have, that edge is gone, there is something missing, not even necessarily in individual games as much as to the overall season. Even teams who finish the season in success will have fans with mixed feelings. It isnt like a one off game like you have seen behind closed doors before, and you wont have, or at least dont yet know if you will have that same feeling, I will wager that you wont. If we say got to the play off final, unlikely I know, that would be the first Wembley appearance for 28 years. You'd feel like you was missing out, like a rare season of pure success has almost been taken away. If Liverpool win the league, it will be anticlimactic, no celebrations (which arent the same months down the line) and you could go on and on. I dont understand why games would be put on freeview channels either, surely that would go against one of seemingly the primary reasons why the season is to be finished, the TV money?