No one anywhere is doubting the fact, or reluctant to mention the fact, that the manager is doing a great job, that the team is young, improving, full of fight and battling qualities. Its also competitive in terms of quality. That doesnt mean that its perfect, nor will it ever be. Today I am not on my own in being both proud again of the team, and again disappointed that we didnt win as we should have done, a feeling that has happened a few times this season. Im also not naive enough to put it down solely to referees or bad luck. I do think we can feel hard done by today in terms of the referee, not against Villa as previously discussed. That said, the fact that we have thrown points away a few times already this season has to be a point of concern. Just as the fact that we have been more than competitive in the vast majority of games is a point of pride. We have only lost 1 in 10, which again is a point of big promise. That said, of the 9 games we have avoided defeat in, we have only managed to win 3 of them, and only 1 at home out of 5, again that is something that we need to and I am sure Mowbray and the players are looking at improving. Its not "picking holes" to say that. We have prove we can beat anyone in this league. - we have the ability but thats the point he is making, we dont win often enough considering the chances we have.

How is it an embarrassing comment? We did draw lots of games last time in the Championship under Mowbray. And we are drawing a lot this time out. We are incredibly difficult to beat also arent winning very many ourselves. To clarify, I think Mowbray has done a very good job, and I like the team we have, and I agree with all the characteristics that youve listed. Its a team that leaves everything on the pitch and the front 2 is a brilliant combination. Whilst that its a valid suggestion that the referee was poor today, youve peddled the theory a few times that refs are biased against us and its a load of rubbish. Refereeing decisions arent the sole reason that we have thrown away 2 points today, 2 against Villa, 2 against Ipswich etc. Whilst we are not going to be 100% efficient its such a shame that we do all the hard work to get ahead and then for whatever reason allow it to slip and to fulfill our undoubtes potential it has to stop. You seem desperate to bury your head in the sand in regards to at times an inability to get wins over the line when we play well, hiding it behind referees and luck. Today maybe theres an element of truth but overall there is a problem there, for all of Mowbrays excellent work to date.

Yes today was due to a poor refereeing decision, but yet another day where we had large spells of dominance yet come away disappointed after throwing away a leading position. So I am not taken out of context, I am very happy with the team and the direction we are heading in, the effort etc, but the throwing away of points has to be a major, major concern. Weve got the quality to be more than competitive as we keep showing but we cant seem to get wins over the line often enough. Even today, I remember a Bennett throw in across his own goal, Downing caught on the ball, a Smallwood pass easily cut out in a silly area, all needlessly bringing on pressure. Another big concern is 4 penalties conceded in a week, surely thats a record. Lenihan is far too rash and I presume that people are realising how important Mulgrew is. The whole defence individually had poor games I felt, the full backs quite a few times were beaten far too easily and Downing is nowhere near a Championship signing and I always felt his permanent signing was incredibly short-sighted. We are rueing not signing a centre back in the summer. I'd like to see Mulgrew back midweek, Williams in at left back and I cant imagine Nyambe will be fit anyway, but hes been very shaky in the last week or 2, so I'd put Armstrong in and reshuffle with Bennett or Reed in his place. Graham for me was easily the man of the match, some of his flick ons and hold up were different class, how he didnt score I will never know. The 2 in the first half I felt like he did everything right and was so unlucky, the one just before his goal less so but his work soon after to tee up Dack was different class. His fitness was very impressive, it was Dack who looked shattered whereas Graham looked fine, hes proving everyone wrong on that one. Dack himself was unlucky not to get 1 or 2 more and the 2 link up so well. Also felt that the central 2 of Evans and Smallwood were good, as was Reed who was busy as always. Armstrong should start on Wednesday after his impact, although his goal was a total fluke and he bottled his one on one after a sublime Dack pass. Subs wise, Armstrong for Downing seemed a strange sub anyway as Nyambe is never a centre back, so him going down I felt was in the context of todays game, as much as I hope he is fine injury wise, a blessing in disguise as Rodwell was comfortable in the main, albeit once or twice showed big signs of ring rust. Grabban once nearly scored off the back of him and he was iffy aerially but hes never a centre back. Rothwell for Evans should have been knocked on the head once we got our noses in front as Evans would have helped to stem the tide.

My point is chaddy, while I respect that you have different needs, wants and opinions to me, you have to show that you appreciate that peoples opinions differ to that. The Darwen End debate is a case in point. I liked that it was unreserved primarily. That said, my reasons for preferring it are irrelevant, just as I respect that not everyone feels the same, you for example prefer the Blackburn End. If you had a valid reason why you think the Darwen End should have closed, fair enough. But saying you dont see why anyone would go there just smacks of ignorance and lacking empathy. You do see attending home games as a key priority in life otherwise you wouldnt go to every one. Same with me. Doesnt mean I doubt that obviously your family is most important. I intend on doing more than 5 away games, I did about half last season. If Mowbray said why havent our high away followings continued this season, I wouldnt start telling you or anyone else that you should go to more and "find a way." Youve already said about Bolton that ticket prices are too high, so its hypocritical to not empathise when others are saying the same about prices at Ewood, whether it be season ticket increases, matchday surcharges etc. And the reason I blame Waggott is, as others have explained with far more clarity. The target audience of people who could increase crowds on last season are by default, not ones who see going to Ewood as their sole priority. You freeze prices and you are more likely to draw people back following a good season. You remove frivolous surcharges and you increase the chance of people waking up on a Saturday, perhaps with nothing else on and thinking, I fancy going Rovers today. And you dont irk the hardcore fans already there by moving them from their favourite areas.

Again I apologise to others for being baited into this discussion. The issue here and reason for you apologising for the club and Waggott again is a total lack of empathy. Chaddy doesnt want to be in the Darwen End. Why would anyone else want to sit there? Chaddy prioritises his money to spend on Rovers, why wouldnt anyone else? Chaddy goes to every home game without fail, surely other people wouldnt be less consistent in their attendance? I like early kick offs as they suit me and my family so how could they inconvenience anyone else? The argument that people will find a way regardless is so flawed its untrue. As others have mentioned, the people we are trying to add to the attendances are not the hardcore like us 2, attending regardless. Waggott has done nothing to encourage an increase in sales, ticket surcharges are nonsense as even if your logic is correct that for some reason staff on a matchday are a more valuable resource, more sales would be made if say like at Wigan we had cash turnstiles. Mowbray is perhaps right to want bigger crowds. He needs to blame Waggott for why that hasnt happened.

Totally echo others in that Mowbray needs to turn to Waggott as his first man to question, his greed/decision making has ensured that we have failed to boost crowds at a point where we have momentum behind us, both via season ticket increases and also the surcharges on matchday, as well as closing the Darwen End and moving kick offs unnecessarily, the latter 2 are minor in the scheme of things but ae further examples of a lack of consideration towards home support.

I think the biggest barrier to a bigger crowd v Bolton will be the lack of trains.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16908145.rodwell-still-a-way-off-championship-debut-says-mowbray/?ref=mac “At some stage we will ask him to play for the Under-23s again, possibly in central midfield rather than at the back, and see how he does. Hopefully an indicator into his future position.

No Rodwell in the squad? And Palmer dropped totally, you think if we need a goal or a spark, or if Dack got injured say, youd bring on Butterworth?

Raya Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Bell Reed Evans Bennett Dack Armstrong Graham Subs: Leutwiler, Downing, Smallwood, Rodwell, Palmer, Rothwell, Nuttall Suspect that we will play Smallwood ahead of Armstrong, only chose Armstrong personally as we are at home so its a more attacking change.

Yes Tony.

I would have played the one out wide who has had success wide for us before, rather than the one whose struggles at Forest coincided with playing wide. We are splitting hairs now though, I hope Brereton isnt played wide again though. Thats my conclusion.

I know you hate Pulis ? he joins Mick McCarthy and Kasey Palmer on chaddys list who wont be getting a christmas card this year! I dont like Pulis but its totally unfair to criticise him for not allowing Chapman out when Mowbray has done the exact same with Nuttall.

I hope and am sure that Mowbray isnt putting down a repeated conceding of goals late on as "flukes." I know Brereton needed to play but he should have played up front as I have explained in my above post. Hes made half of his appearances for us in the wrong position. Quelle surprise.

Was a definite free kick. Admittedly superb execution to take advantage of the gap so fair play there.

Surely by the same logic, Pulis somewhat rates him to block the move? If Pulis feels that he needs Chapman in any way then he is perfectly entitled to keep him, rather than gift him to a Championship rival to further his career. Pulis is a prick but I dont understand how you can hold a grudge about this. The examples that you gave of players that show Mowbray apart from Pulis are totally incomparable, in that they are players whose careers are near the end, weve probably financially benefited in the long run by paying them a lump sum now. With Travis and Nuttall we dont know exactly why they are still here but I used them as examples of players that for whatever reason have stayed at the club despite like Chapman at Boro being down the pecking order and unlikely to start in the League between now and the turn of the year. With Ward, I presumed you meant in the summer. Obviously we let him go in January as we didnt want him and someone else specifically did.

We do have a lack of height in the team, but the goals at Ipswich and Bristol Rovers were second phase after the initial ball had been defended, and the Villa goal was down to rash play by Reed, and a poorly organised wall and starting position from Raya.

The problem is, as you said we dont have natural wingers, Mowbray doesnt like them, so theres always an element of discomfort for any of Palmer, Brereton, Rothwell and Armstrong when played there, to varying degrees. The way that I worded the quote you replied to was incorrect so apologies, replace winger with wide-man/inside forward. The thing is, we know that Armstrong can get plenty of goals from wide and be a massive danger, and work in tandem with Dack and Graham whose places at the moment are set in stone. I appreciate that the standard was poor in League 1, but you could say the same about any of our players who impressed last season. He hasnt been at his best in either position this season but hes been a bit in and out. My main problem wasnt necessarily with Armstrong playing centrally, it was regarding Brereton. Point being that Armstrong proved last season that he can be effective wide. Forest fans in the main seemed to highlight that one of Breretons main downfalls was being played out of position which was a main reason for his performances dipping. I wanted him to start centrally because we spent a lot of money on him to be our new striker and sticking him in a role that didnt suit him at his previous club made little sense, baring in mind Armstrongs versatility. No, just poor decision making both from Nyambe to throw the ball right back, and mainly from Williams to get sent off. That was seemingly the trigger that indirectly led to a late goal. Chaddy has done a biopsy of all of the recent late goals but all goals can be picked at like that, its the time that worries me. Maybe the phrase "game management" isnt correct, and I dont profess to knowing how to fix the problem, but it is a worry if it continues. I am happy with the decent start to the season and the direction we are going in, hope that isnt lost amidst this individual criticism, but it would be foolish to dismiss a developing theme. I do think that the inexperience will be a major factor, and we do need to keep the ball better, something Mowbray mentioned last week, so I agree with you on that.

The main thing that is overlooked is that even if he came here, Mowbray doesnt rate him enough to be anything other than a sub. You are also ignoring the fact that Nuttall and Travis had loan moves blocked, the latter was seemingly very annoyed by that, and neither will hardly kick a ball at senior level, so your examples are flawed. Wards deal had expired, and the other 2 are players whose careers are coming to a close. We arent a charity case.

The reasons for the individual goals are inconsequential to the point I am making, its the time of the game that is the common denominator. Although last night we had 10 men for about 2 minutes. Please see the post of @roversfan2001 in the thread "why do we concede so many last minute goals" for a well researched point on how we are regularly susceptible to conceding late goals but dont score them. You may not see it as an issue and choose to sweep it under the carpet but others do. Why is our 6 million striker playing second fiddle out wide where he has never played effectively prior to joining the club? That said, the comments @Parsonblue are worrying in regards to him looking "tired all night." I know it was his role last night, and it may be his only chance of starting berth. But you have to accept that, like Brereton, that isnt his position, and he wont be 100% effective there.

That Boro team was very much a second string with fellow young wingers Tavernier and Wing ahead of him. They dont usually start with wingers at all so he is definitely there for the taking.

The key is in the word opinion. Neither of us have seen the game. You can give reasons for all the goals and why they went in individually but if you dont think that conceding late goals on a regular basis is of any concern then you are kidding yourself. I have seen the highlights but my comments are in the main general observations and thoughts that I already had. Brereton is a striker. Palmer is naturally a number 10 and should play there when Dack is out. Id like to see Armstrong wide playing like last season. Rodwell I feel should be allowed to play in midfield and im glad he did. That 2nd to last comment doesnt mean anything. As an isolated incident yeah but I dont think its being overly negative or critical to suggest that it is of worry that we have conceded quite a few goals near the end of games. At Stoke on Saturday there seemed an element of panic once they got back into the game. May be fitness issues but I would suggest that the main problem is a primarily mental or tactical one. We do have quite a young team especially in defensive areas. And obviously I dont know how to fix that sort of thing but we need to ensure we can see games out with regularity. He sees himself as a striker but I dont think you can dismiss his ability as a winger. Last season he played wide and was superb from that role, it suited him down to the ground. This season he has played central with mixed results at best. Brereton meanwhile is a striker who Forest fans seemed very insistent was not effective from a wide berth. I think not playing him in his natural position on his first start means that he cant really do himself justice. For me it makes no sense to shoehorn our 6m striker into an uncomfortable position on a rare occasion when our first choice striker is rested.

Neither of us know for sure, my point about game management was a general one (nearly blew a 3 nil lead on Saturday, blew a win v Villa and Ipswich in the last minute, conceded in the last minute after getting a red card from an attacking throw in) so I dont think you can deny that its a concern. Never said Rothwell wasnt good enough but you dont know either way for sure. Neither do I. Point was more about Brereton, Forest fans said hes shite as a winger so we should play him central or not at all. We paid 6m for a striker so I want him to play his natural position. If hes been brought in to play wide we should have bought a winger. Will you not be doing your usual pin the defeat onto Palmer?

Main positives are that we have plenty of spirit which we knew we had and its great to see. Also we have attacking players that can hurt teams. Brereton is not a winger and I hope isnt played there, him and Armstrong should have been in opposite positions, we didnt need a 6m striker to play wide. Did well to get a penalty following a poor touch but his reaction afterwards between the foul and the award of the penalty was embarassing. Raya seemed to make some good saves, one in particular was excellent. Lenihan again giving away a penalty, and Williams with a moment of pure idiocy. Game management is a massive, massive concern. All these late goals are not a good sign.