I am not criticising his lack of goals in those 3 games. But his lack of all round game has been a factor in our disjointed attack. He isnt strong and he cant hold the ball up and bring others into play. He is quite slow and doesnt really offer an option in behind or in the channels. And technically his passes can often be loose and go astray. I think he clearly is an excellent finisher when he gets the chance, but when he doesnt score he doesnt offer anything.

Gueye deserves a chance because Ohashi has done nothing for 3 games. But ive not seen much slagging off and one cross did go right to him and he totally misjudged it and it just bounced off him.

Dreadful performance, disjointed, slow, sloppy, very poor all round. Pears is never far away from that sort of performance. Spilt 2 and got fortunate and their third goal is an embarassment. Time to get Toth in. Carter played the first real pacy winger that he has come across and failed miserably out of position. We need to get JRC at right back and drop one of the 3 centre backs currently in the side, possibly Batth. In attack, as many have said and despite the comments about positive recruitment, we badly needed pace and didnt get it. Ohashi was invisible again, Cantwell needs to play centrally but looked like he would rather be anywhere else, Weimann didnt do anything and Dolan a lovely mix of needless tricks and a suicidal back pass. Cozier Duberry at least offered glimpses of a threat and needs to start at Plymouth. Special shout out for £10m man Buckley for as bad a cameo as you could wish to see.

We didnt when Szmodics, Wharton, Armstrong, Rhodes, Gestede, Cairney, Hanley and Duffy were sold. Their major sales were last summer, I dont think they sold much this summer but still spent a bit.

Speaking well on TV doesnt mean anything in terms of management.

They definitely are not similar to us in terms of reinvestment. They have spent loads of the Gyokeres/Hamer etc money on a number of players, many of whom (Simms, Wright, Van Ewijk etc) did very well last season.

Im ok for spending my evening listening to what Graham Potter thinks about Dan Ashworth. What I do know is that Ten Hag is doing a very poor job as United manager, they have absolutely no sign of any gameplan despite a side assembled full of players Ten Hag has worked with before, he doesnt seem capable of motivating them, I have no idea what he is even trying to do and results are getting worse and worse. And long may it continue.

Youve still not said why Ten Hag as an individual deserves to be backed with more time. Youve still not displayed any suggestion of what style of play you can see that Ten Hag has shown signs of implementing. Youve still not explained why Ten Hag is likely to break this supposed third season curse with an improvement in results, probably because they are getting worse and worse. Youve not said one thing about Ten Hag and his work at United which would be an argument in favour of keeping him at the club. He has already had loads of time, loads of money and the influence to sign loads of players he specifically wants and they keep getting worse. If they have a structure which for whatever reason you are sure is a good one, despite another summer with considerable spending including on players Ten Hag has worked with before. But if thats changed for the better, then surely you also bring in a manager that can improve on the terrible results and total absence of any plan or playing style to compliment that structure. Hopefully they stick with him and continue to be a laughing stock though.

Just to add some context: - I asked if he has ever won a header (had forgotten his header v Stoke) in response to someone suggesting that maybe he is selected for his height. He certainly is not a notable aerial threat, but he is a wide man, so its not something you would expect. Either way, I don't think his height gets him into the team, and it certainly shouldnt. It isnt really a criticism of a wide player to suggest that he isnt a threat in the air. - Being good enough or not is relative to what the task is. Im fine with him being a squad player. He isnt good enough IMO to warrant a regular starting place because as I said, I dont think he is productive enough. - The talķ of him living off one goal came as a direct response to a poster asking if it had been forgotten when defending him. Obviously it was a brilliant goal, but it was very much a one off, not a regular occurence. I dont think he does live off that goal in general, it was just a direct reaction to that being used as a defence. As I said, Mokoena once scored a 30 yard worldie, that was a one off too. You mention about him being involved in 15% of our goals. That is a goal at Norwich which was an excellent finish but as I said, his goal record across his Rovers career is poor for an attacking player. His other contribution ws helping the ball on to Ohashi v Bristol City, not that far in their half and by the touchline. He then ran forward a fair way, cut in and curled one into the top corner so it doesnt really change much!

I would understand more in terms of defending set pieces but again he isnt really an asset in that regard.

The odd example, but I certainly dont think he is selected even 1% for his height. Most likely a combination of him being a hard worker and experienced player, and due to a lack of fit enough alternatives.

You keep going off on a tangent about previous managers. United consistently play in such a disorganised way, with everyone scratching their heads as to what he is trying to do. League results for over a year have led to embarassing league positions. The way the team is playing is down to the manager, why after watching that would your response be to back him for a further extended period?! What do you see about Uniteds performances and results makes you justify such a stance? What style is he trying to adopt (he has been there ages now, hes not new) and do you see signs that its working? If we had a manager who was overseeing terrible results relative to who we are, and absolutely no signs of any sort of game plan. Would you want him to then be backed for an extended period?

The issues when Steve Kean was here went far beyond him as an individual, same with Owen Coyle. Venkys were and always have been the problem. It didnt mean that we may aswell have stuck with terrible managers because they werent the main problem. I cant fathom how sacking a manager who finished 8th and is currently 12th with absolutely zero evidence of any style of play/any clue on how to set up the team effectively (unless you can tell me what you have seen from them in terms of a style and/or green shots of something coming together) creates any more problems. A new, competent manager wouldnt fix all of the problems, but it would fix one big one.

Hedges I cant remember heading a ball, barely if ever. That was just in response to the idea that he might be selected for his height. I think @Tyrone Shoelaces (sorry if ive got the wrong poster) summed up Hedges well by saying something along the lines of that he doesnt do enough often enough. He works hard and wont let you down in that regard but I just dont think he is effective enough or productive enough in the final third. I take your point on the window being closed and I felt that we needed (and seemingly tried to sign) more than one wide player with pace, ACD seems to have been signed in an attempt to help to rectify that. You mention my previous comments on not relying on untested kids, that related to assuming players are ready to step up before seeing them in a senior environment whilst not signing a player in that position. Thats because that player then has to essentially be ready immediately otherwise (like with Batty last season) you are left short. The reliance on ACD to be good enough has become more than I would like because we failed to get more than one of that type of player in the window. I eould have preferred a player tested at senior level too. But I am purely hoping that he can come in and provide more of a threat than Hedges who doesnt do enough for me. But my main grievance with your post is the idea that Hedges has become some sort of villain and people should have learnt a lesson. And then the comments about people moaning. He isnt a villain, and like with you and Pickering (like I said, I personally think Beck has appeared to be an upgrade although I think Pickering is solid and an intelligent player) its just a case where people perhaps see him as one of the weaker players of the team. It doesnt have to be made out to be a witchhunt, and people shouldnt refrain from sharing those opinions in case that player pleasantly surprises them and becomes key.

I dont think its anything to do with Title winning standards. Its not as if they are 3rd or 4th, finishing 8th and now being 12th with that squad and considering the resources spent on players Ten Hag specifically wanted is nowhere near good enough. And you wont find a team as poorly coached relative to the quality of players, where you cant see over 2 years in what they are even trying to do.

Me saying that you likeing criticising Hedges as him being portrayed as a villain isnt me saying you dont have the right to an opinion, im merely offering my opinion about your opinion. I dont think its a constructive argument to make out as if its some sort of scapegoating campaign, similar to your stuff about just wanting a moan. I dont understand how you criticising Pickering is any less portraying him as a villian? Not that should you be discouraged either from pointing out if you think hes a weak link, I feel fine with him at left back as much as Beck seems like an upgrade. So different players but surely similar in both pinpointing a weakest member of the team. (Well, Pears is IMO but I think he has more to point to in recent games to justify selection, although I wouldnt and dont trust him indefinitely) Yes Hedges is part of a team that has started well but I dont think that he individually has offered much. You speak about Cozier Duberry as if hes a young lad on work experience. I just would like to see him and Cantwell in the team who I would hope can give us more threat than bang average players like Hedges.

No one has been "so critical". And its nothing to do with expectations. People seem to be trying to figure out the type of player he is from limited minutes. I personally have seen enough to suggest that he is a bit different to the rest of the squad, we desperately need pace and I think he appears to be our quickest player. But I still am concerned that we dont have enough pace and am not sure exactly how quick he is. We dont need this portrayal of our fans giving a player a hard time.

People have lauded our transfers this summer and whilst it is too early to suggest that all are successes with some yet to feature much or even at all. We had the likes of Markanday and Garrett regularly featuring for us last season so their loans this season put into context how thin we were.

Van Nistelrooy finished 7 points behind 1st in his sole season in Holland. Won a domestic cup and the Dutch version of the Community Shield, went out of the play off round of the Champions League to Rangers and knocked out of the first knockout round of the Europa league. Would that solitary season get anyone considered for the United job without the playing career he had for them? A simple no. I would love to know the reasoning why Southgate would be considered a good choice. I cant get my head round the reasoning that previous managerial changes havent improved the fortunes, surely it depends on the individuals appointed. And if the logic was not to change because of it, then Ten Hag would just be kept until he retires. He has overseen not only a lack of progression but armed with loads of money spent on players he personally wanted, they have declined and finished 8th last season, and are now in the bottom half. There is still absolutely no sign of anything in terms of a well coached team or even clues on how he has set the team up with any sort of game plan. There is no logic offered up as to why Ten Hag IS the man to take them forward. I hope they stick with him as the decline is funny.

Tuchel and Enrique will significantly improve them. Southgate would be as hilarious as Ten Hag.

Definitely Cantwell, I would like to see Cozier Duberry given a run. Dolan probably from the left. Most difficult choice perhaps is up top, I would give Gueye a start midweek but Ohashi based on the first 7 games as a whole would be ahead due to his goals. Do we need this sort of drivel as if he has become some sort of unfair scapegoat/villain. And do we have to rate every single player equally? And withold all opinion in case that player pleasantly surprises us and becomes integral to the team? Every team will have a player in it whereby one or two players in particular are perhaps the weakest/the first areas of potential further improvement. Obviously hes not totally devoid of any ability to the point where he isnt capable of doing something good. But he doesnt offer enough to justify repeated selection especially with new signings in similar positions now getting closer to being fit to start games.

Of course players have so much power now more than ever. But there is no way that a competent manager wouldnt have this set of players playing more coherently, with more structure and with a plan and identity. Regarding the players personalities, Ten Hag has worked with a number at previous clubs. So he has experience in managing them as people.

Im not having that their current squad was only 8th best last season or 12th this. They look so disorganised, so lacking in a plan and so lacking an identity. Its not even as if hes been lumbered with players he didnt want, half of the signings have been players hes worked with before and big money signings too. History also says that they have never finished as low as 8th since Ferguson left, but they did last year. I want him to stay though, because its funny.

I dont understand the thinking that Ten Hag going wouldnt change a lot. This is his third season and his teams are as badly organised and setup as you will see. No one is any wiser as to what he is even trying to do with his setup. I hope they keep him.

I wouldnt start Cantwell on Wednesday but I would on Tuesday. And in the middle, he is our best player, he can make a third midfielder with his quality on the ball and some of the others are better off the ball, the position behind the striker is where you can get away with that a bit more.