[Archived] Ordinary Dave

[stuwilky]

Mainly thanks to New Labour and their policies and failures over the last 10 years.

The whole world recession thing being caused by Labour as well I suppose.

[RibbleValleyRover]

The whole world recession thing being caused by Labour as well I suppose.

I personally don't believe that this whole crisis was caused by global factors that were out of our control.

Recession or downturn may have been global but due to the state of public finances and failure to save money for a rainy day the UK was far from being in the best position to react to the fast changing situation and in the long run to come out of it quickly. Countries like Germany and France are starting to show strong signs of coming out of it, we aren't yet. Their books were in a far better state than ours, they didn't have to borrow the ridiculous amounts of money we had to go on a Keynesian spending spree.

[stuwilky]

Recession or downturn may have been global but due to the state of public finances and failure to save money for a rainy day the UK was far from being in the best position to react to the fast changing situation and in the long run to come out of it quickly. Countries like Germany and France are starting to show strong signs of coming out of it, we aren't yet. Their books were in a far better state than ours, they didn't have to borrow the ridiculous amounts of money we had to go on an Keynesian spending spree.

Purely out of interest, what it the national debt of both those countries related to our own?

[jim mk2]

I personally don't believe that this whole crisis was caused by global factors that were out of our control.

Recession or downturn may have been global but due to the state of public finances and failure to save money for a rainy day the UK was far from being in the best position to react to the fast changing situation and in the long run to come out of it quickly. Countries like Germany and France are starting to show strong signs of coming out of it, we aren't yet. Their books were in a far better state than ours, they didn't have to borrow the ridiculous amounts of money we had to go on a Keynesian spending spree.

The British economy is recovering and is not far behind France and Germany but they were hit less hard than us by the global economic slowdown because their financial sectors, which were at the heart of the crisis, account for a smaller proportion of their economies.

France and Germany still have a strong manfacturing base and as a result have more balanced economies than Britain. Of course Britain used to have a strong manufacturing base but it was deliberately destroyed by Thatcher in the 1980s in her manic desire to wreck the unions.

[American]

Stu: Seem to be multiple ways to measure it, but this is the one that makes the UK look worse than the others!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

[1864roverite]

Eh up Jim, awoke from your slumber ?

You can't blame Mrs T for everything, she had to pick up this country after the last ill fated labour power trip. Not only did she drag the county back on its feet, she also won a war 8000 miles away when the labourite scum wanted to hand the Falklands over to the bloody Argies for free.

Yes the 80's were hard times as were the 90's but compared to today whats better ?

The wheel has gone full circle.

Labour ruin - Tory ruin - Labour ruin, its the ultimate yoyo.

Blair and his cronies conned us all with a new beginning and look at what has happened. The good thing for us lot now is that Cameron and his crew cannot do anything worse and in the ultimate irony, THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER for The Tories.

BTW Jim, from the class of 83 and served Q and C with distinction ever since.

Its time for a change and a change is coming.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

This thread is massively predictable. You have the Red rosette ( usually the champagne socilaist types who they themselves knock the privilged tories- failing to mention that their are several millionaires within the current Labour party) types who will apportion all of new Labours failings on Thatcher even though she left office…… 18 years ago. Labour has failed end of, Brown is clearly out his depth & should retreat to “opposition” backbenches

Then you have PhililP who started the thread, yet will wait to see what the populist opinion, before enlightening us with another yet another smoke & mirrors post.

New Labour has failed end of, Brown is clearly out his depth & should retreat to “opposition” backbenches after the general election.

[stuwilky]

This thread is massively predictable. You have the Red rosette ( usually the champagne socilaist types who they themselves knock the privilged tories- failing to mention that their are several millionaires within the current Labour party) types who will apportion all of new Labours failings on Thatcher even though she left office…… 18 years ago.

The only people to mention Thatcher are Jim and Tris (with a contribution from speedie as well).

Stu: Seem to be multiple ways to measure it, but this is the one that makes the UK look worse than the others!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Aye, and looks to be accurately updated as well, with the UK figure being a matter of months ago and most of the rest being 2 years or more ago!

Just wondering that as someone cited the examples whether they actually had recent comparable figures cos Im too lazy too look. (and to be honest to say it I presumed they had them so it wouldnt be too onerous a task!)

[thenodrog]

And for your information, anything I may or may not have is down to my own efforts, not any politician and certainly not Thatcher.

DITTO...... BUT BY STATING THIS YOU ARE INFERRING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE SQUIRRELLED EVEN MORE AWAY UNDER A LAB GOVT SINCE THE MID 70'S. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT? IF SO HOW DOES THAT SIT WITH YOUR SOCIALIST BELIEFS?

Moving on, the Tories' proposed higher retirement age outlined by Osborne yesterday should serve as a dire warning as to who they expect to pay for the profligacy of the bankers who brought Britain's economy to the edge of collapse.

WHICH PARTY WQAS IN CHARGE WHICH ALLOWED THE BANKS TO DO THAT? WHO REGULATES THEM? WASN'T IT NEW LAB WHO DE-REGULATED THE BANK OF ENGLAND ON THEIR FIRST DAY IN OFFICE?

It certainly won't be the civil servants, politicians and bankers with their gold-plated final salary pensions but the ordinary folk working in poorly-paid jobs in the factories (those still remaining after the previous Tory government) and shops and supermarkets with no savings who will have to slog on for another year in order to pick up the measly state pension.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT PRIVATE PENSIONS ARE IN BETTER SHAPE SINCE BROWN DECIDED THEY WERE EASY PICKINGS? HE'S MADE THE SHERRIFF OF BLOODY NOTTINGHAM LOOK A PUSSY CAT.

In addition, Osborne is proposing a public sector pay freeze that again will affect those who can least afford it but of course failed to provide proposals for curbing bankers' pay and taxing their excessive bonuses.

PUBLIC SECTOR PAY FREEZE? AREN'T THE ABOVE CIVIL SERVANTS AND POLITICIANS IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR?EVEN SOME OF THOSE BANKERS ARE NOW AREN'T THEY?

He also failed to state that he was dropping his daft scheme to scrap IHT, another tax break for the rich.

I TAKE IT THAT THE SOLE BENEFICIARY OF YOUR WILL WILL BE THE STATE?

As I've said before that indoctrination from the cradle has left you unable to think for yourself. I'd wager that you have never voted any other way. I'm right aren't I?

[thenodrog]

They will all rip us all off. And shaft us all. And line their own pockets. Regardless of the political party.

Correct! Idiots like Jim who with blind faith in supporting the politico's of their choice are preventing our political system from change and very necessary reform. Especially so when considering MP's expense claims. Unbelievable that he can myopically target so much ire at who he perceives to be exploiting good ordinary people who work in factories (in China I assume ) shops and supermarkets. Hardly wealth makers but Hey Ho,the silly sod cannot grasp the importance of those to any nation can he?

[thenodrog]

Stu: Seem to be multiple ways to measure it, but this is the one that makes the UK look worse than the others!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Isn't that info out of date american?

[adopted scouser]

At the Pride of Britain awards on the telly last night, heartbreaking footage of servicemen maimed in the line of duty, messages from Afghanistan from people who put their life on the line every day, and a soldier thought to be paralysed walking a marathon on crutches and dragging himself up a rock face to raise money for injured servicemen.

Savage irony that the grinning, gulping one eyed idiot was there, part of the cabinet that put them all there in the first place. Under equipped, in a theatre of unnecessary and unwinnable conflict,subject to verbal abuse in hospitals back home after 'doing their bit'.

That clown and 'call me tony' before him can't even get to Brize Norton to salute the draped coffins as they are unloaded, thank god for Wootton Bassett.

[Flopsy]

Afghanistan is neccesary and winable, they do however need to stop pissing around and deploy more troops. Which weirdly makes all the troops safer.

As for kit, Dannet was on the radio yesterday saying they have the kit they need now.

[jim mk2]

And for your information, anything I may or may not have is down to my own efforts, not any politician and certainly not Thatcher.

DITTO...... BUT BY STATING THIS YOU ARE INFERRING THAT YOU WOULD HAVE SQUIRRELLED EVEN MORE AWAY UNDER A LAB GOVT SINCE THE MID 70'S. DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT? IF SO HOW DOES THAT SIT WITH YOUR SOCIALIST BELIEFS?

My statement infers nothing of the sort.

Moving on, the Tories' proposed higher retirement age outlined by Osborne yesterday should serve as a dire warning as to who they expect to pay for the profligacy of the bankers who brought Britain's economy to the edge of collapse.

WHICH PARTY WQAS IN CHARGE WHICH ALLOWED THE BANKS TO DO THAT? WHO REGULATES THEM? WASN'T IT NEW LAB WHO DE-REGULATED THE BANK OF ENGLAND ON THEIR FIRST DAY IN OFFICE?

The retail banks (ie Barclays, Lloyds etc) are regulated by the now the descredited Financial Services Authority. They were deregulated by your beloved Tories in the 1980s (Big Bang - remember that?). The BoE was given the freedom to set interest rates by Labour in 1997 but it is nothing to do with the retail banks that have crippled themselves and the economy in the process. A 5-year-old knows the difference.

It certainly won't be the civil servants, politicians and bankers with their gold-plated final salary pensions but the ordinary folk working in poorly-paid jobs in the factories (those still remaining after the previous Tory government) and shops and supermarkets with no savings who will have to slog on for another year in order to pick up the measly state pension.

ARE YOU SAYING THAT PRIVATE PENSIONS ARE IN BETTER SHAPE SINCE BROWN DECIDED THEY WERE EASY PICKINGS? HE'S MADE THE SHERRIFF OF BLOODY NOTTINGHAM LOOK A PUSSY CAT.

Did I mention private pensions ?

In addition, Osborne is proposing a public sector pay freeze that again will affect those who can least afford it but of course failed to provide proposals for curbing bankers' pay and taxing their excessive bonuses.

PUBLIC SECTOR PAY FREEZE? AREN'T THE ABOVE CIVIL SERVANTS AND POLITICIANS IN THE PUBLIC SECTOR?EVEN SOME OF THOSE BANKERS ARE NOW AREN'T THEY?

The lowest paid are the people who will suffer most from a pay freeze. All politicians should take a pay cut after this year's expenses revelations. Bankers are still awarding themselves bonuses - if you read newspapers with words of more than one syllable you would know this.

He also failed to state that he was dropping his daft scheme to scrap IHT, another tax break for the rich.

I TAKE IT THAT THE SOLE BENEFICIARY OF YOUR WILL WILL BE THE STATE?

And I suppose you are in favour of further tax breaks for the rich when unemployment under the Tories' plans (if elected of course) is projected to reach 5m ?

I've said it before theno but your reading and comprehension skills are very poor.

I would suggest you visit the library and read children's Janet and John books. You might learn something.

As for kit, Dannet was on the radio yesterday saying they have the kit they need now.

Dannet is a Tory stooge and completely out of order. Someone is in his position should not be getting involved in politics.

[Flopsy]

He's not a stooge, try to raise yourself sbove Derek Draper and McBride's level

"Someone is in his position should not be getting involved in politics."

Is something a totally agree with

[broadsword]

Afghanistan is neccesary and winable,

I'm not sure about necessary, but from where I'm standing it sure as **** does not look winnable.

I saw that program about maimed troops a few weeks back. Young men, some not even in their twenties, at significant risk of being maimed for life. It's sick.

What happens when terrorist camps get set up in Saudi, or Pakistan, or Uzbekistan or wherever? We will invade those places as well? Once we've eradicated the drug supply coming out of Trashcanistan will we invade Bolivia and Columbia?

It's just total, absolute nonsense.

[cletus]

Watching George Osbourne squirming on Newsnight last night made me cringe

Labour are a shambles, but if these f###### idiots get in, we`re ALL doomed!!!!

They haven`t an effing clue!!

also watched Cameron`s rallying speech live on telly today. Utterly utterly utterly cringeworthy!!

The guy is so false it`s shocking, but i would defo give his missus one

[jim mk2]

I saw that program about maimed troops a few weeks back. Young men, some not even in their twenties, at significant risk of being maimed for life. It's sick.

Soldiers get shot at, shock horror.

Candidate for most stupid post of the week.

[broadsword]

New Labour's mouthpiece on BRFC forum in failure to see anything wrong with sending ill-equipped troops out in insufficient to a war they can't win, coming back with missing limbs and in bodybags in substantial numbers "shocker". Getting shot isn't what's killing troops, it's IEDs and a lack of choppers, but you have your bloated head stuck so far up Gordon Brown's rectum you're his spare pair of eyes.

Odds-on favourite for Rear of the Year 2009, but will he have room in his already overcrowded trophy cabinet?

Does you Nu Labski chip ever have to be serviced, Jim? It might be due for its 10,000 post spruce-up. If you're eyes start swivelling and you feel oddly-critical of Gordon Brown, please report to Professor Mandelson at Millbank HQ.

This post was brought to you courtesy of the letters L, A, B, O, U, R, Ä, ®, $ and ê.

[adopted scouser]

New Labour's mouthpiece on BRFC forum in failure to see anything wrong with sending ill-equipped troops out in insufficient to a war they can't win, coming back with missing limbs and in bodybags in substantial numbers "shocker". Getting shot isn't what's killing troops, it's IEDs and a lack of choppers, but you have your bloated head stuck so far up Gordon Brown's rectum you're his spare pair of eyes.

Odds-on favourite for Rear of the Year 2009, but will he have room in his already overcrowded trophy cabinet?

Does you Nu Labski chip ever have to be serviced, Jim? It might be due for its 10,000 post spruce-up. If you're eyes start swivelling and you feel oddly-critical of Gordon Brown, please report to Professor Mandelson at Millbank HQ.

This post was brought to you courtesy of the letters L, A, B, O, U, R, Ä, ®, $ and ê.

You did thake the bait Bry but enjoyable none the least !

By Bye Brown and the so called champagne socialists

[broadsword]

Sah! Merely returning fire, sah!

:-)

[adopted scouser]

Sah! Merely returning fire, sah!

:-)

Give Jim credit, he served in the R.A.S.C.

[jim mk2]

New Labour's mouthpiece on BRFC forum in failure to see anything wrong with sending ill-equipped troops out in insufficient to a war they can't win, coming back with missing limbs and in bodybags in substantial numbers "shocker". Getting shot isn't what's killing troops, it's IEDs and a lack of choppers, but you have your bloated head stuck so far up Gordon Brown's rectum you're his spare pair of eyes.

Odds-on favourite for Rear of the Year 2009, but will he have room in his already overcrowded trophy cabinet?

Does you Nu Labski chip ever have to be serviced, Jim? It might be due for its 10,000 post spruce-up. If you're eyes start swivelling and you feel oddly-critical of Gordon Brown, please report to Professor Mandelson at Millbank HQ.

This post was brought to you courtesy of the letters L, A, B, O, U, R, Ä, ®, $ and ê.

Factually incorrect but pretty good effort, even by your high standards !

http://www.fish4fun....es/polomar4.gif

[broadsword]

Shows how far standards have dropped in the Fourth Estate when tautologies such as "factually incorrect" are bandied about. What next, James, "a logical fallacy"?

People who dish it out must be able to take it when it's given to them.

[jim mk2]

Factually incorrect means that it is incorrect with respect to facts. It's not difficult to understand.

Likewise, people who post nonsense like this

Young men, some not even in their twenties, at significant risk of being maimed for life. It's sick.

should be able to take the stick when it's given to them.