[Archived] Rovers v Leicester City - Sat 22nd March KO - 3pm

[Majiball]

While I agree that Theno is often guilty of this, there's a hint of pot and kettle tbh. You can quite often do the same, using your professional status to belittle rather than pass on knowledge.

I think you'll find I've acknowledged that in previous posts EVERYONE on here needs to treat others on here better, I've even acknowledged guilt.

If you're perceptive you might notice a trend in my current posts.

I haven't posted about what I do for years, it's always brought up by others in whatever context but mainly to be used in the negative towards myself.

Lets end that right now, I don't work in football, thankfully I'm a sports scientist and that means them all, not just soccer.

If I'm wrong on this i apologise, but one aspect people need to get their head round is communication is a two way street and requires both parties to have clarity over the message. The scouse use the term 'la' as in mate, it's short for lad. The first time someone called me that here, they got the response, what's your keaning problem? Where I come from 'La' is an insult a la la or gay, it's an attack on your masculinity. Recently you told me that i was wrong about the injuries and it's just luck. Now you don't mean to offend, but you do as it's belittling to my whole profession and everything I have worked towards. It is not luck, if it was the 100's of millions of pounds that get spent in research to prevent injuries of all types is a waste of money and people. There are reasons why injuries occur, the body is not in a condition to cope with the demands placed on it, whether that be not fit enough or over training or malnourished. The majority are preventable with the right holistic approach. For example Burnley have a nutritionist who has sorted out all the players diets, perfectly, what you eat repairs and recovers your body. We don't have one of those. Now I've not tried to belittle during that more to make a point. Its just as important how words are received as it is they are delivered, if you don't consider how what you are saying is going to be received, especially when you don't know them, then expect a few whats your keaning problem. It works both ways.

[Mike E]

I think you'll find I've acknowledged that in previous posts EVERYONE on here needs to treat others on here better, I've even acknowledged guilt.

If you're perceptive you might notice a trend in my current posts.

I haven't posted about what I do for years, it's always brought up by others in whatever context but mainly to be used in the negative towards myself.

Lets end that right now, I don't work in football, thankfully I'm a sports scientist and that means them all, not just soccer.

If I'm wrong on this i apologise, but one aspect people need to get their head round is communication is a two way street and requires both parties to have clarity over the message. The scouse use the term 'la' as in mate, it's short for lad. The first time someone called me that here, they got the response, what's your keaning problem? Where I come from 'La' is an insult a la la or gay, it's an attack on your masculinity. Recently you told me that i was wrong about the injuries and it's just luck. Now you don't mean to offend, but you do as it's belittling to my whole profession and everything I have worked towards. It is not luck, if it was the 100's of millions of pounds that get spent in research to prevent injuries of all types is a waste of money and people. There are reasons why injuries occur, the body is not in a condition to cope with the demands placed on it, whether that be not fit enough or over training or malnourished. The majority are preventable with the right holistic approach. For example Burnley have a nutritionist who has sorted out all the players diets, perfectly, what you eat repairs and recovers your body. We don't have one of those. Now I've not tried to belittle during that more to make a point. Its just as important how words are received as it is they are delivered, if you don't consider how what you are saying is going to be received, especially when you don't know them, then expect a few whats your keaning problem. It works both ways.

I did not intend to belittle you at all. You said our injuries are down to fitness issues (which I agreed with). I agree with all you have just typed re: nutrition and science contributing to fitness (think Hughes era).

I pointed out, however, that SOME of our injuries (the major impacts on our season imo) were NOT fitness related.

Marshall's injury was caused by his own nasty challenge. Rochina's dislocated shoulder wasn't down to fitness. Evans' ankle injury was caused by a nasty challenge in an International match. Think I mentioned Gestede being knocked out too.

I merely stated that THOSE injuries were not related to fitness, however you kept on about 'all' our ankle and muscle injuries. Tbh, I think we just got our wires crossed. But while I agreec with what you were typing, I felt you were deliberately ignoring the point I was trying to make and insisting all our problems were the fault of the backroom team rather than on-field collisions.

[broadsword]

For example Burnley have a nutritionist who has sorted out all the players diets, perfectly, what you eat repairs and recovers your body. We don't have one of those

Yes, but do Burnley have a director of communications, hmmmm?

[Majiball]

I did not intend to belittle you at all. You said our injuries are down to fitness issues (which I agreed with). I agree with all you have just typed re: nutrition and science contributing to fitness (think Hughes era).

I pointed out, however, that SOME of our injuries (the major impacts on our season imo) were NOT fitness related.

Marshall's injury was caused by his own nasty challenge. Rochina's dislocated shoulder wasn't down to fitness. Evans' ankle injury was caused by a nasty challenge in an International match. Think I mentioned Gestede being knocked out too.

I merely stated that THOSE injuries were not related to fitness, however you kept on about 'all' our ankle and muscle injuries. Tbh, I think we just got our wires crossed. But while I agreec with what you were typing, I felt you were deliberately ignoring the point I was trying to make and insisting all our problems were the fault of the backroom team rather than on-field collisions.

You don't get it. You think it's the impact, where as I know it generally means the body isn't in a condition to cope with the impact. Big difference between the two, go and take a look at other sports, the collsions, impacts in those and the injury rates? Here's a clue from 16-retirement the training load in football averages 4-500 hours a year training. It does not go up year on year as the body develops and matures, allowing for serious fitness levels and muscles trength to be generated. Basketball averages above 2,000 hours a year training, a tour de france rider 3,000+ training hours. they're load increases every year and os their bodies are in great condition. But more importantly, the performance becomes less than training so it's easy. In football they do the exact opposite, the performance is the hardest trainng session of the week. They are not fit enough to cope with it, so there bodies are always recovering as it is above what they are capable of. As such this means that the body is always under serious stress while they play, whereas in other sports it's less than training. This not being in peak condition is the reason the majority of injuries occur, it's not the impact, the impact in football is pathetic compared to some of the more violent sports, like fighting. Yes some are bad luck, but RR and Marshalls are not there bodies were overtrained and not in a condition to cope with the match/demands placed on them. The lack of nutritionist should tell you all you need to know, what you eat repairs your body, eat the wrong stuff and it doesn't do it as well, far from it. How many times have you seen a player come back only to break down again, since Howard left? King, Henley, Dunn, off the top of me head, that's exactly the same thing, there body wasn't yet ready to cope with the demands, so it broke. The physical demands in football in the grand scale of things are not that high, the army trains harder for example and they're on average fitter than them.

Here's why I get keany some times, your whole reasoning behind the stance you have is an opinion. This is the second time you have said I am wrong because you don't believe it, please explain why? I always explain my reasoning or impart knowledge, you have just said I am wrong because. That in it's self is an insult as you offer nothing of substance to reason with, or I think it's wrong. why is it wrong , explain.

Here's some food for thought all the worlds best sports scientists do not work in football why??????

[Mike E]

You didn't explain it in that manner. You just said it in a 'trust me I know' kind of way, without much detail. No offence intended, perhaps I'm a bit thick when it comes to subtle explanations but thanks for a detailed overview.

However, now you've explained what you meant I'll have to reconsider my opinion.

[roversR4ever]

I always appreciate your input Majiball.

I didn't realise the club didn't have someone working on the nutrition side of things - it is vital in any sport. You only need to listen how the sky and great Britain cycle teams prepare to realise how important. In fact its amazing that every club at least championship level upwards doesn't have one. Perhaps some the clubs should have people spend some time with the cycle team to appreciate just how much detail they go into - I remember when hearing that the cycle team had been shown how to wash there hands. People may laugh but its the smallest of details that can make the difference and keep someone in peak condition or in better condition than their competitor.

I do think there is an element of fortune with some injuries. Marshalls injury was probably lack of technique as well (sometimes you get combative players who hardly ever get injured simply because they have learnt to tackle and throw themselves around the right way but another player not so adapt at it tries to do the same and gets it wrong however fit and condition he is in) - he put pressure on part of his body in a way that it could simply not take. You can get those type of injuries. Sometimes freak things happen and you get a batch of them.

I do also wonder with the change in how the game is played and there is less opportunity to make a physical challenge/tackle when a player does attempt to make a tackle or foul by making a tackle the technique isn't as strong as it used to be many years ago. Perhaps you might actually see more of these types of injuries.

Of course as you have said the lack of a nutritionist will undoubtedly mean recovery time may not be as quick and you must have an increased danger of muscle injuries. Also the sportsman cant be at his peak either from a performance point of view if he hasn't got the nutrition side of things spot on.

[Mike E]

Actually Maj, I'll put an apology here as well, as I have been a bit nowty about it.

[onlyonejackwalker]

Good response Mike...

Good stuff Maj and very interesting. Keep it coming. Without the specific techincal knowledge behind me, I have argued for years that our footballers are are nowhere near fit enough and still to this day do not re-fuel correctly, nor always train appropriately. Many are simply not professional enough as most should be aware of what is required and have been educated by now.

Agree with the common decency theme. Maybe you and theno can calm it down a bit and all the Chaddy baiting has got a bit boring as well.

[perthblue02]

Ironic when the club's owners have sports nutrition as one of their global visions

http://www.venkys.com/products/hhp-human-health-products/sports-nutrition-products/

Still, showing players stuffing greasy chicken in their faces is probably a better message and much more fitting of the last 3 years growth of their baby.

[Husky]

Hey Majiball. What do you think's up with Dunny?

Anyone would think he's about 45.

Barely 34 and not being 'fit enough' to handle 2nd tier football seems a bit poor to me. Is it because he hasn't got a married brother or what?

[bazza]

Thanks, Majiball, for informing me what your occupation is and the interesting advice you have given. I shall maybe take a bit more notice of your posts from now on.

It's nice to know someone's background. I take more notice of another poster now that I know he is a football referee.I think it's Arbitro.

[thenodrog]

I don't work in football, thankfully I'm a sports scientist and that means them all, not just soccer.

Here's some food for thought all the worlds best sports scientists do not work in football why??????

A very good question maj. The money clearly isn't an issue with top level football and there is an obvious need for the really top expertise that you possess, so it sure beats me.

...... Could it be because they are all stuck miles up their own arses?

[Majiball]

You didn't explain it in that manner. You just said it in a 'trust me I know' kind of way, without much detail. No offence intended, perhaps I'm a bit thick when it comes to subtle explanations but thanks for a detailed overview.

However, now you've explained what you meant I'll have to reconsider my opinion.

TBH honest Mike, I decided to stop posting lengthy replies as many people said they were not welcome. The one thing I really want at present is this MB to return back to a civilized place were we can talk rovers like adults. So thank you and I aplogise if my replies were taken in a negative manner, that wasn't my intent

Good response Mike...

Good stuff Maj and very interesting. Keep it coming. Without the specific techincal knowledge behind me, I have argued for years that our footballers are are nowhere near fit enough and still to this day do not re-fuel correctly, nor always train appropriately. Many are simply not professional enough as most should be aware of what is required and have been educated by now.

Agree with the common decency theme. Maybe you and theno can calm it down a bit and all the Chaddy baiting has got a bit boring as well.

I have worked full time at 7 clubs now, from 1st team down. Mixed success if being honest as you really cannot influence the aspects you need to at a football club. However I did once work with a coach who almost embraced it all and that was fantastic. We moved on but we still talk and he's now a number 2 at a club. He still uses the methods, they are very demanding and the off-season was canceled, but fair play to him as his team will be promoted this season. I have never been relegated but have played a small role in two teams achieving something that was considered well above them. But whilst it can be incredibly rewarding it is without doubt the most frustrating and erroneous environment I have ever worked in and so I walked away from it. I always wanted to work at Rovers and thanks to Tris on here arranging a meeting for me with JW, I get a grand tour and an invite to join the academy.. Alas back then I was rather arrogant at times and declined as I wanted 1st team.. I have tried many times since to get back in at Rovers but alas to no avail, shebby interviewing me was an experience. But at the same time i have offered my services recently for free, to not even get a reply. I guess I'm not too popular at Brockhall? I can't think why, lol. Football is a great game, without doubt the best game I have ever played but it isn't what you all think it is or I thought it was, which is sad. So I now work in Boxing, Golf and at a uni researching sports science.

The education issue is huge for us, we are all highly educated people, even most of those working in football only have a degree. A degree really isn't that high a qualification these days and whilst you get a basic knowledge you couldn't for example research at a uni or lecture. Most footballers have very few GCSE's, school wasn't important to them even the B-tecs or whatever are rubbish. I once completed one of youth players homeworks and got 100% it took me less than 5 minutes. Now that's not there as a brag, but to illustrate the difference in knowledge, the others took about a day to finish. It's difficult in football as sometimes the importance of certain aspects isn't observed as they don't understand and we cannot control all the aspects needed Ie training load. Most manager dictate to us the training time and what is going on and how intense it is etc, we just try and do what we can around it and the other controlling factors. Some clubs do to a degree embrace us but no club truly embraces sports science and I've been to all the G14 clubs now.

If Theno is willing to agree publicly to treat others better I will extend that courtesy to him. He can provide some great posts but he can also go far too far at times. I'm sure I have my flaws on here as well but I just want a return to civility on here. I am on a crusade!

Thanks, Majiball, for informing me what your occupation is and the interesting advice you have given. I shall maybe take a bit more notice of your posts from now on.

It's nice to know someone's background. I take more notice of another poster now that I know he is a football referee.I think it's Arbitro.

Anything to do with physiology or psychology, just ask. I've studied both to post grad level and am classed as a psycho-physiologist. The above should reveal more into my background.

I am a sports scientist, i have worked in football, but I no longer do, thankfully.

[Majiball]

A very good question maj. The money clearly isn't an issue with top level football and there is an obvious need for the really top expertise that you possess, so it sure beats me.

...... Could it be because they are all stuck miles up their own arses?

Money really isn't why you go into science so it's not really a motivator for us, obviously for some it is but other negatives come with football. Imagine working in a job where you are responsible for x y z but you cannot influence the main factors that affect x y z? But when it goes wrong it's your fault anyway. Food, recovery, training structures are just ignored in football for reasons I will never agree with. They do believe that because they played it means they understand training etc but I go to the bank everyday, it doesn't mean I could run one or know anything about the industry. My mate goes to the gym 6 days a week, he trains much more than a football player, he doesn't think he knows what he's doing science wise. They also struggle to do things they need to do and prefer to do what they want to do. But it is the environment, culture and money that causes the big issues and creates these people so it's difficult to blame them. Obviously there are exceptions to every rule but in the main that is my experience within football and what I have seen.

As I said above Theno I offered GB help to not even get a reply. I know people have spoken to him about me and spoken well of me, but alas I don't even warrant a reply these days which is sad as I know I could help, and again that's not me being arrogant. We have strong deliverer's of sessions but scientifically we are not strong at all with only degree level knowledge.

[Majiball]

Hey Majiball. What do you think's up with Dunny?

Anyone would think he's about 45.

Barely 34 and not being 'fit enough' to handle 2nd tier football seems a bit poor to me. Is it because he hasn't got a married brother or what?

Dunn's back injury was extreme as to what harm it has done I do not know, so cannot comment on that. Although I know he hasn't always look after himself and this will have played a role. His body is on the decline now and because it wasn't looked after in his development years it wouldn't be easy to maintain himslef now he's past his best physically. However that's not say it's not possible and if Dunny was 100% committed and on board with it he could probably stretch a couple more seasons. He seems to have coped well enough since the Dingles, playing in almost every match, so I see that as hope that he could carry on and still play a significant role. But only with the right approach.

[Mike E]

FWIW Maj, I prefer the longer posts on most matters. It's better to have substance to read. Especially when it's something I can learn from (many posts by yourself, arbitro and the odd post from others).

Although short and witty comments do brighten the day