[Archived] Is It Time To Protest Against Venkys?

[Exiled in Toronto]

No-one outside the fanbase would agree they have destroyed the club: 9th and a narrow quarter-final defeat to Liverpool in front of a packed house isn't destroyed, and banging on about it makes us look like spoilt kids kicked out of the Premiership party.

Joey Big Nose hit the nail on the head. We need to find a way of working with them to resolve a situation that is untenable for everyone. If Ian Paisley can sit down with Gerry Adams then I'm sure fans and owners can work together, but it has to be seen as helping them out of a pickle, rather than keep focusing on about who got us in it. Time for the Mayor or MP to step up to lead the process, it can't be led by the likes of the Two Ians or the welding directors, who Venky's would perceive as having a financial interest.

[Gav]

Rubbish, with respect EIT.

From 10th in the premiership to mid table championship and an extra 100m debt, all in less than 5yrs.

That's destroying a club in everyone's eyes!

Working with them? That's just laughable.

I sit here wondering just what these people have to do to persuade posters like yourself that they're not interested.

What will it take, how long do we give them? It's been 5yrs so far EIT?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Rubbish, with respect EIT.

From 10th in the premiership to mid table championship and an extra 100m debt, all in less than 5yrs.

Gav, that's the fan emotional view. An uninvolved outsider might see it as back to where we started before Jack Walker invented spending massively more than you have coming in.

[Athlete]

Gav, that's the fan emotional view. An uninvolved outsider might see it as back to where we started before Jack Walker invented spending massively more than you have coming in.

A lot of outside fans know we've been scammed by dodgy foreign owners

[Stuart]

Gav, that's the fan emotional view. An uninvolved outsider might see it as back to where we started before Jack Walker invented spending massively more than you have coming in.

If I didn't know better I'd accuse you of not being a Rovers fan! That's straight out of How To Be A Dingle 101.

Jack ploughed millions of his own cash into this club. His club, and took us back to where we started!

[yoda]

Gav, that's the fan emotional view. An uninvolved outsider might see it as back to where we started before Jack Walker invented spending massively more than you have coming in.

We started at the top, founding members of the Football League, founding members of the PL, the FA cup is ours, JW indulged in his passion, his money.

If we had stayed in the PL we would be solvent now.

[Exiled in Toronto]

If I didn't know better I'd accuse you of not being a Rovers fan! That's straight out of How To Be A Dingle 101.

Jack ploughed millions of his own cash into this club. His club, and took us back to where we started!

Hence "an uninvolved outsider", who one wouldn't expect to think like a Rovers fan. To solve the Venky's issue we have to stop thinking that everyone thinks like Rovers fans do.

Here's my issue with protesting, two issues actually:

i) It outsources the means of a solution. It is not a solution in itself. It's hoping that an undefined someone will act as a result of them. Fairy Godmother stuff.

ii) The logic doesn't hold. For protests to work, what needs to happen is that this undefined someone is so outraged by either what has happened to the club or how it was brought about, they will feel compelled to devote time, attention, resources to somehow fixing it. The "What" is unfortunate but, as I said earlier, isn't "destroyed"; 11 other clubs have been relegated since Venky's took over and how sorry do we feel for them? How sorry do we feel for Coventry? As to the "how", Glen himself said there was no smoking gun.

So protests simply cannot work and are a distraction on several levels: effort, focus and, in my opinion, making it seem like we just don't like not being in the Prem.

[Gav]

I couldn't care less what fans of other clubs think as long as we get the message out that we're being ruined by foreign owners.

I'm not here to tell anyone what they should our shoudn't do, but if you think having Venkys in charge for much longer is going to benefit the club you need a reality check.

If nobody wants to take over the club then we go into administration, thats a far better option than adding another 30/50m to the club debt this coming season, and still having the likes of Shaw 'running' things from Ewood.

[Athlete]

Hence "an uninvolved outsider", who one wouldn't expect to think like a Rovers fan. To solve the Venky's issue we have to stop thinking that everyone thinks like Rovers fans do.

Here's my issue with protesting, two issues actually:

i) It outsources the means of a solution. It is not a solution in itself. It's hoping that an undefined someone will act as a result of them. Fairy Godmother stuff.

ii) The logic doesn't hold. For protests to work, what needs to happen is that this undefined someone is so outraged by either what has happened to the club or how it was brought about, they will feel compelled to devote time, attention, resources to somehow fixing it. The "What" is unfortunate but, as I said earlier, isn't "destroyed"; 11 other clubs have been relegated since Venky's took over and how sorry do we feel for them? How sorry do we feel for Coventry? As to the "how", Glen himself said there was no smoking gun.

So protests simply cannot work and are a distraction on several levels: effort, focus and, in my opinion, making it seem like we just don't like not being in the Prem.

So do you suggest we carry on regardless allowing Venky's and the charlatans slow train ride us to oblivion - that's if they don't have a plan to jump off the train next summer with us further screwed

[Stuart]

Hence "an uninvolved outsider", who one wouldn't expect to think like a Rovers fan. To solve the Venky's issue we have to stop thinking that everyone thinks like Rovers fans do.

Here's my issue with protesting, two issues actually:

i) It outsources the means of a solution. It is not a solution in itself. It's hoping that an undefined someone will act as a result of them. Fairy Godmother stuff.

ii) The logic doesn't hold. For protests to work, what needs to happen is that this undefined someone is so outraged by either what has happened to the club or how it was brought about, they will feel compelled to devote time, attention, resources to somehow fixing it. The "What" is unfortunate but, as I said earlier, isn't "destroyed"; 11 other clubs have been relegated since Venky's took over and how sorry do we feel for them? How sorry do we feel for Coventry? As to the "how", Glen himself said there was no smoking gun.

So protests simply cannot work and are a distraction on several levels: effort, focus and, in my opinion, making it seem like we just don't like not being in the Prem.

On that basis we should be looking at the "Two Ians" teaming up with the RoversTrust and going public about a bid for the club. It would need to be based on sound financial principles and would need to ignore the debt that Venkys have accrued (whether or not Rovers have as well is not known - I don't know enough about debentures). It would need to offer fans an alternative to Venkys and gain popular support amongst the fanbase as realistic owners. It would be nice to have John Williams as a patron for such an organisation. A bid to manage the current operating costs which would require Venkys to write of their losses could be made to Venkys advisors and loud noises should be made in the UK and Indian press.

The trouble is that these people will get a better deal if they wait for an administrator so why would they come in now - aside from hero status? The other problem is that there would be a faction of fans who would vilify that group and tell everyone to 'get behind the lads' and that they 'aren't real fans' and that they are 'distracting the team on the pitch'.

Our own super fans (I don't care roverzee) are our worst enemy in that they will not allow anything or anyone to challenge those in charge. My view is that they just don't want the hassle or they already have a very good relationship with people on the inside that they don't want to spoil. Which is fine of course but they also wish to undermine any groups who do not tow the supporter line.

So, to sum up, there is nobody who can buy the club from Venkys; Venkys are not interested in making the club better; our manager isn't up to it; no other manager would entertain coming here; we would not replace Bowyer with anyone better even if he left tomorrow; he continues to champion players who we can all see aren't up to it; and bench players who are better; we cannot buy players because of the embargo; we won't challenge the embargo despite being the only real victims of it; we are likely to sell our best players to help get out of the embargo next Summer; the majority of fans no longer care about any of this and are walking away; those who remain are happy to put up with it all.

Someone remind me - football is supposed to be an enjoyable experience isn't it?!

[Bucksrover]

I think that for clubs like united, liverpool and newcastle protesting is a viable option. Their level of support is such that they can protest and are taken seriously - they are such a profitable brand that any disruption the protests cause will not hurt the clubs in the long term, and the media will swoop on the issue.

For rovers, we need as many fans as we can at ewood to keep the club alive. If a small group of the small number of fans we have at a game do something childish and petulant like throw eggs - people, the media and prospective owners will just think we are even more of a joke than they do already.

We need to get ewood fuller. Lets focus on that. In time owners and management will change if we keep ewood full enough to survive

[Exiled in Toronto]

I couldn't care less what fans of other clubs think as long as we get the message out that we're being ruined by foreign owners.

I'm not here to tell anyone what they should our shoudn't do, but if you think having Venkys in charge for much longer is going to benefit the club you need a reality check.

If nobody wants to take over the club then we go into administration, thats a far better option than adding another 30/50m to the club debt this coming season, and still having the likes of Shaw 'running' things from Ewood.

It isn't, it really isn't. Any further increase to "the debt" (it's a bit more complex than one sum owed to one body) is irrelevent as we are already in hock to about five times the value. I'm not saying I rate Shaw in any way, but you'd bust the club because you don't like the hired hand in the corner office?

On that basis we should be looking at the "Two Ians" teaming up with the RoversTrust and going public about a bid for the club. It would need to be based on sound financial principles and would need to ignore the debt that Venkys have accrued (whether or not Rovers have as well is not known - I don't know enough about debentures). It would need to offer fans an alternative to Venkys and gain popular support amongst the fanbase as realistic owners. It would be nice to have John Williams as a patron for such an organisation. A bid to manage the current operating costs which would require Venkys to write of their losses could be made to Venkys advisors and loud noises should be made in the UK and Indian press.

The trouble is that these people will get a better deal if they wait for an administrator so why would they come in now - aside from hero status? The other problem is that there would be a faction of fans who would vilify that group and tell everyone to 'get behind the lads' and that they 'aren't real fans' and that they are 'distracting the team on the pitch'.

Our own super fans (I don't care roverzee) are our worst enemy in that they will not allow anything or anyone to challenge those in charge. My view is that they just don't want the hassle or they already have a very good relationship with people on the inside that they don't want to spoil. Which is fine of course but they also wish to undermine any groups who do not tow the supporter line.

So, to sum up, there is nobody who can buy the club from Venkys; Venkys are not interested in making the club better; our manager isn't up to it; no other manager would entertain coming here; we would not replace Bowyer with anyone better even if he left tomorrow; he continues to champion players who we can all see aren't up to it; and bench players who are better; we cannot buy players because of the embargo; we won't challenge the embargo despite being the only real victims of it; we are likely to sell our best players to help get out of the embargo next Summer; the majority of fans no longer care about any of this and are walking away; those who remain are happy to put up with it all.

Someone remind me - football is supposed to be an enjoyable experience isn't it?!

That's why they can't lead it - for anything to happen we need it led by an independent mediator who has the town at heart.

In my view the best thing that has happened for ages was the ex-mayor going to their party and having a word in their ear. He got access, he got heard (if not listened to), and he isn't a money man with motives that could be questioned. More than anyone else has achieved.

[Gav]

It isn't, it really isn't. Any further increase to "the debt" (it's a bit more complex than one sum owed to one body) is irrelevent as we are already in hock to about five times the value. I'm not saying I rate Shaw in any way, but you'd bust the club because you don't like the hired hand in the corner office?

Venkys are the issue John, not Shaw, not Bowyer, not the sacked groundmans, but Venkys.

Once the club is plunged into administration by these idiots we'll see one or two interested parties come forward to look at taking the club on, but not if the debt is 150/200m.

We need them out now pal, we really do.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Venkys are the issue John, not Shaw, not Bowyer, not the sacked groundmans, but Venkys.

Once the club is plunged into administration by these idiots we'll see one or two interested parties come forward to look at taking the club on, but not if the debt is 150/200m.

We need them out now pal, we really do.

Totally agree, we are just debating the best strategy, if there is one.

[yoda]

Totally agree, we are just debating the best strategy, if there is one.

I am leaning toward the nuclear strategy at the moment, or plaster the Pune pavilions with anti IS posters

[Stefan Hedgehog]

I think that for clubs like united, liverpool and newcastle protesting is a viable option. Their level of support is such that they can protest and are taken seriously - they are such a profitable brand that any disruption the protests cause will not hurt the clubs in the long term, and the media will swoop on the issue.

For rovers, we need as many fans as we can at ewood to keep the club alive. If a small group of the small number of fans we have at a game do something childish and petulant like throw eggs - people, the media and prospective owners will just think we are even more of a joke than they do already.

We need to get ewood fuller. Lets focus on that. In time owners and management will change if we keep ewood full enough to survive

rubbish newcastle fans made protests about ashley and thousands did not turn up for games,gate down by 6k actual attendance down by 16k,calling fans petulant because there prepared to do something is upper class petulance.

[Stuart]

That's why they can't lead it - for anything to happen we need it led by an independent mediator who has the town at heart.

In my view the best thing that has happened for ages was the ex-mayor going to their party and having a word in their ear. He got access, he got heard (if not listened to), and he isn't a money man with motives that could be questioned. More than anyone else has achieved.

I must have missed that. How did he get on?

[yoda]

I must have missed that. How did he get on?

He signed an NDA

[tomphil]

Shouldn't we be calling for a public enquiry now into all things at Rovers instead of protests. We have the perfect starting point in Shaw and the Berg fiasco and things can follow on from there. We need answers about just what is going on and going to happen to the club and the only way to get at them is obviously to shake the hornets nest hard until they start dropping out.

It was also on here a while ago and on the grapevine that someone may come forward who was in the thick of the action a while back, may prompt a full investigation.

[Stuart]

Shouldn't we be calling for a public enquiry now into all things at Rovers instead of protests. We have the perfect starting point in Shaw and the Berg fiasco and things can follow on from there. We need answers about just what is going on and going to happen to the club and the only way to get at them is obviously to shake the hornets nest hard until they start dropping out.

It was also on here a while ago and on the grapevine that someone may come forward who was in the thick of the action a while back, may prompt a full investigation.

Did we ever find out who that was?

[tomphil]

The player liason officer at the time i've heard. It's time to hear what he has to say I think. Sadly I'm only a mere mortal and no idea where to start with something like this but surely it's the way to go. Get as much aired in public as can be then people can make up their own minds and any protests and such could follow.

[Bucksrover]

rubbish newcastle fans made protests about ashley and thousands did not turn up for games,gate down by 6k actual attendance down by 16k,calling fans petulant because there prepared to do something is upper class petulance.

Newcastle are profitable every year and any potential owner knows that. Rovers are not. Rock our little boat and it tips over.

But as long as people get to vent their anger eh.

[Gav]

Shouldn't we be calling for a public enquiry now into all things at Rovers instead of protests. We have the perfect starting point in Shaw and the Berg fiasco and things can follow on from there. We need answers about just what is going on and going to happen to the club and the only way to get at them is obviously to shake the hornets nest hard until they start dropping out.

It was also on here a while ago and on the grapevine that someone may come forward who was in the thick of the action a while back, may prompt a full investigation.

With a certain agency in court also at the moment for alleged offences, shaking that hornets nest could be very timely.

Thats why this thread was created really, to throw a few ideas about as well as debating the subject.

[tomphil]

With a certain agency in court also at the moment for alleged offences, shaking that hornets nest could be very timely.

Thats why this thread was created really, to throw a few ideas about as well as debating the subject.

Good point and surely it's the way to go. It's about time all these shysters were exposed and like I say the perfect starting point is Shaw and just why he's still here, plenty already in public about that so no legals being broken. It would show the wider public as well just why there is so much unrest and surely it would get Venkys attention.

[Stuart]

The player liason officer at the time i've heard. It's time to hear what he has to say I think. Sadly I'm only a mere mortal and no idea where to start with something like this but surely it's the way to go. Get as much aired in public as can be then people can make up their own minds and any protests and such could follow.

Just done a quick google. I can only find one from Allardyce's time. Did we have one under Kean?

http://m.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/8254088.Meet_Blackburn_Rovers__Mr_Fix_it/

Seems a bit arbitrary.