[Archived] Eu Referendum, In Or Out - Looks Like Blackburn Wants Out !

[yoda]

Good read that post Philp, well done. Rather more pertinent than some dunderhead congratulating himself for voting Brexit because of some extremist nutcase in France.

With regards to the above, stories in the press today that we have no one - absolutely no one - in Whitehall capable of trade negotiations, so it will all have to be outsourced to foreigners to negotiate them for us - all at huge expense.

As an indication of the size of the task, Canada, which recently agreed a trade deal with the EU after 5 years of talks, had 300 trade negotaitors working on the deal.

That £350m "saving" from Brexit (copyright lies Farage, Johnson et al) just got significantly smaller.

If you had read the detail on that point, we do have negotiators but they are all working for the EU, presumably because they don't have anyone capable

That scenario is going to change

[yoda]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36809083

Some people want this country in the EU, we got out at the right time

[Baz]

Military coup underway in Turkey......

[yoda]

Military coup underway in Turkey......

See above

[jim mk2]

Turkey was never going to be allowed in the EU - just another scare story by the Leave campaign.

As for Turkey, Erdogan has brought this on himself.

[yoda]

Turkey was never going to be allowed in the EU - just another scare story by the Leave campaign.

As for Turkey, Erdogan has brought this on himself.

Testicles

Merkle was negotiating a fast track for them

[Baz]

Turkish Airlines are running a flight sale advertising banner on here, well for me anyway.

Get a cheap deal I reckon, and as much leg room as you want.

#PrayForTugay

[Paul]

Testicles

Merkle was negotiating a fast track for them

I'm pretty confident you know as well as I there was significant opposition to this. Every usual indicator suggests Turkey is at best 10-20 years away from full membership.

I personally had vindication of my reason for voting Leave last night. France has been in a state of emergency for a year now, I'm willing to take a slight hit on everything else not to have Britain go through that (at least not for a while).

Leaving the EU won't stop terrorist attacks. The perpetrator was French

[yoda]

I'm pretty confident you know as well as I there was significant opposition to this. Every usual indicator suggests Turkey is at best 10-20 years away from full membership.

Leaving the EU won't stop terrorist attacks. The perpetrator was French

Merkle was on the verge of dishing out visa free travel for 1 million Turks in return for their help in controlling borders, in advance of full membership.

[Guest]

BoJo's insult null and void, then. He'll be breathing a sigh of relief once Obama is also gone.

[jim mk2]

Merkle was on the verge of dishing out visa free travel for 1 million Turks in return for their help in controlling borders, in advance of full membership.

Rubbish and irrelevant.

In order for any country to be eligible for accession, negotiations on signing up to all the Eu's rules must be completed in 35 "chapters".

Turkey formally opened talks in 2005 and by 2016 just one of the chapters - on science and research - had been completed. Of the remaining 34 chapters, only 14 had been opened for negotiations.

I don't like quoting a discredited and failed PM like Cameron but even he admitted that at the current rate of progress Turkey would still be negotating in the year 3000.

The "threat" of Turkish accession to the EU was a Leave scare story (like all of its campaign) and not based on fact.

[Mike E]

Generally, jim, when you quote a post you normally respond to its content. Not sure how your post is relevant to what yoda said (unless you can disprove it, as I was led to believe Merkel was doing just as he suggested).

[Baz]

Generally, jim, when you quote a post you normally respond to its content. Not sure how your post is relevant to what yoda said (unless you can disprove it, as I was led to believe Merkel was doing just as he suggested).

Pretty sure it was directed exactly at yodas post.The Merkel bit you are quoting as fact is the bit that is disputed. She says no, others say yes.

[Paul]

Merkle was on the verge of dishing out visa free travel for 1 million Turks in return for their help in controlling borders, in advance of full membership.

Those visas are or were only going to be valid for three months.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YA1E9

"Allowing Turks to visit Europe's 26-nation Schengen area visa-free for up to three months is unpopular in many EU states, including France, where authorities fear it could be a gift to anti-immigration populist Marine Le Pen in elections next year."

Another inaccurately reported aspect of the leave campaign

Generally, jim, when you quote a post you normally respond to its content. Not sure how your post is relevant to what yoda said (unless you can disprove it, as I was led to believe Merkel was doing just as he suggested).

Only on three month visas Mike and the rest of jim's post is accurate. I posted the same znd more myself at least twice. Trouble is people believe headlines which of course is why we are leaving the EU.

[Mike E]

If it's only 3-month visas then I don't honestly take much issue thanks for clarifying, Paul.

My point re: jim's post is that yoda specifically mentions visas 'in advance of membership', which I took as rendering the conditions of membership irrelevant to the point he was making.

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

Leaving the EU won't stop terrorist attacks. The perpetrator was French

No it won't. It will reduce their likelihood, which is all that can possibly be done at this point. He was Tunisian, not French.

I don't expect the Remain voters will ever be grateful for the opportunity we've created. In terms of the chance at regulated immigration and the slowing of demographic change to an even slightly plausible pace to allow successful integration to be possible.

This battle cannot be won at the point of conflict, as everyone keeps saying what can you do about a random attacker? Nothing. It needs to be won at the age of 6-16, whatever is filling kids heads at Madrassas, the non-conforming Islamic schools giving Ofsted an almighty headache, hardline parents etc needs to somehow be overcome with teachings of tolerance and peace.

If we are winning the education battle, an estimation open to severe cynicism, then it's by the skin of our teeth. The last thing we want (IMO) is hundreds of thousands of adult men pouring into the country every year with views nobody can do a thing about.

[Paul]

No it won't. It will reduce their likelihood, which is all that can possibly be done at this point. He was Tunisian, not French.

I don't expect the Remain voters will ever be grateful for the opportunity we've created. In terms of the chance at regulated immigration and the slowing of demographic change to an even slightly plausible pace to allow successful integration to be possible.

This battle cannot be won at the point of conflict, as everyone keeps saying what can you do about a random attacker? Nothing. It needs to be won at the age of 6-16, whatever is filling kids heads at Madrassas, the non-conforming Islamic schools giving Ofsted an almighty headache, hardline parents etc needs to somehow be overcome with teachings of tolerance and peace.

If we are winning the education battle, an estimation open to severe cynicism, then it's by the skin of our teeth. The last thing we want (IMO) is hundreds of thousands of adult men pouring into the country every year with views nobody can do a thing about.

I understand and do agree with much of this but at present there is no way of knowing whether or not Brexit will influence migration. Until the details of our exit from the EU are agreed one can't make the assumption the UK will have greater control of her borders.

I thought early reports stated the killer was French of Tunisian extraction. Clearly I was wrong or the reports were. He was known to the police for 6 years for (relatively) petty crime. I have to presume he was living legally in France and so one can assume his presence has no connection with France being in the Schengen area.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36801763

The harsh reality is only a percentage can be found and some will continue to enter countries undected or become radicalised after legally arriving.

[matt83]

The EU needs Turkey as a buffer zone to the Middle East and the nutters that lie within. So for tightening their boarder control on behalf of the EU I wonder (and worry) what has been promised to them by Merkel in return. So as Turkey is desperate to join the EU and for all Merkel says they will not get in for 20-30 yrs I just don't believe it. Time will tell but it's reasons like this I believe voting out was the right thing to do.

In the 70s joining the common market I wonder how many people then would have believed 40 years later the EU would be an ever closer union with their tentacles all over our judiciary with EU laws superseding our own. So in another 40 years time I wonder what horror show the EU would stealth upon us. And turkey joining combined with free movement of people certainly isn't beyond the realms of fantasy.

So happy to be coming out of that mob.

[yoda]

Those visas are or were only going to be valid for three months.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0YA1E9

"Allowing Turks to visit Europe's 26-nation Schengen area visa-free for up to three months is unpopular in many EU states, including France, where authorities fear it could be a gift to anti-immigration populist Marine Le Pen in elections next year."

Another inaccurately reported aspect of the leave campaign

Only on three month visas Mike and the rest of jim's post is accurate. I posted the same znd more myself at least twice. Trouble is people believe headlines which of course is why we are leaving the EU.

You may find this uncomfortable but even in Chorley there are people who came on 3 months visas and are still here, working on the black and dodging detection, there are even more who report to the Police station every month to sign that they are still here and confirm their address, again working on the black.

A 3 month visa is like an open door because once here, or in Europe, the European courts would not allow deportation for a whole raft of reasons.

[Guest]

Merkle was on the verge of dishing out visa free travel for 1 million Turks in return for their help in controlling borders, in advance of full membership.

It'd be extremely terrible for our country if just one Turk, let's call him Boris for argument's sake, was to get into our government and help destroy the country. Imagine that!

[yoda]

It'd be extremely terrible for our country if just one Turk, let's call him Boris for argument's sake, was to get into our government and help destroy the country. Imagine that!

Childish in the circumstances I would say,

and you miss the point entirely,

ISIS has been using the open border to spread it's filth on Europe and you think it is a joke,

give your head a wobble

[Guest]

Childish in the circumstances I would say,

and you miss the point entirely,

ISIS has been using the open border to spread it's filth on Europe and you think it is a joke,

give your head a wobble

?

Yes, I can see how my contempt for that deceitful clown Johnson must therefore mean that I think ISIS killing civilians in Europe is a laughing matter. Take it back, please. You've completely interpreted my comments onto an entirely different subject matter. Re-read my posts from yesterday.

[yoda]

?

Yes, I can see how my contempt for that deceitful clown Johnson must therefore mean that I think ISIS killing civilians in Europe is a laughing matter. Take it back, please. You've completely interpreted my comments onto an entirely different subject matter. Re-read my posts from yesterday.

No I won't take it back, comparing a British elected politician with terrorists is beyond the pale

[Guest]

No I won't take it back, comparing a British elected politician with terrorists is beyond the pale

Ridiculous. That was never my suggestion. You're being silly.

My point, as if it needed spelling out, was Johnson claiming he was descended from Turks, and then he and the Leave campaign stupidly had this suggestive poster...

Johnson is not a terrorist, and you've completely twisted what I've put. Johnson is an utter buffoon.

[yoda]

Ridiculous. That was never my suggestion. You're being silly.

My point, as if it needed spelling out, was Johnson claiming he was descended from Turks, and then he and the Leave campaign stupidly had this suggestive poster...

Johnson is not a terrorist, and you've completely twisted what I've put. Johnson is an utter buffoon.

Righty ho then,

You do know the EU plan is for Turkey to join the EU