Blue blood

Mate, it didn't even warrant a mention in Chaddys match report until someone challenged him on it, so not thinking it is a red card is hardly surprising. Comical Ali had more objectivity than said poster. My take too. Especially given the media focus on it and the level of injury. I mean it's the most obvious penalty and dangerous play example ever (whatever card you deem it to be, though imo it has to be red.) Saying he didn't deem it worth anything is the equivalent of admitting you aren't up to standard. Career suicide for the chap. So a retrospective ban is likely. This would leave us short defensively again.

My thoughts on the game: Positives: Kaminski! When TM gets a transfer wrong he gets it very wrong. Fortunately the reverse is true and Kaminski is a better of a signing at a steal of a price. Great performance. Nice to see Lenihen show his old form. Good to see there's a player still in there. By error or design we may have found a system that works/suits our main assets 4-2-3-1. Think if you have Dack and Armstrong in their best positions then you are going to be strong offensively. Gally seems to be a decent impact sub not sure that's enough for his wages but it's at least some use for him. Three points and a clean sheet is really great. Even if we needed a piece of absymal reffing to help it is great we managed to see the rest of the game out. Negatives The Buckley Johnson midfield issues. Johnson is a bit injury prone and inconsistent and the Buckley sub really didn't work. The first half was very unconvincing. A better team would have punished us. We start so slowly of late, and whilst we got away with it today it needs to be addressed. Especially the errors in defence. They really need to be cut out. The penalty and red card. We were super lucky imo on this one. Deffo a penalty which would have changed the game. TM bangs on about it when we don't get things our way so we were very fortunate to get away with it. And if it's mitigating circumstances when we lose, it certainly should be when we win too. To me it was a red, high and studs up - intent is not a factor. Would certainly have given it/wanted it as a red if it were the other way round, also as a neutral too. Think we were very lucky on this one as it was a lucky escape. Can't decide if positive or negative: Boro weren't that special, they crumbled when we scored. We won. And these lot are fighting for promotion. They're nothing special but are in the mix. That's encouraging because we beat a team in the mix and they certainly weren't anything to fear in resilience or quality. So it's encouraging because the teams near the top aren't that good. It's discouraging though because as mediocre as Boro are we still aren't in or realistically likely to get playoffs. It's discouraging to think that even though there is nothing to fear in this division that we still can't make any headway. Which is probably where to end this post - nothing to fear, nothing to be excited about but a welcome three points and win in our mid table jaunt.

Heck of a piece of PR when the main incident in question is completely ignored! Sure, the manager's reaction at the end of the game is mentioned but the incident and it's implications aren't. There's having a Rovers slant and there's a complete lack of objectivity devaluing said opinion. When the main incident going outrageously in our favour is totally ignored it leaves you in the latter camp.

Mate you even admit he is telling porkys about the Premier League stuff. And that's a huge problem as it makes the fans out to be entitled, ubeducated and unreasonable, which isn't true. It tells a narrative of unreasonable expectations so fans will never be happy - it completely excuses his failures by making it seem like fans have too high expectations. So yeah, I think it's a poor do because it's false, besmirches the fans and aims to manipulate the outside view of the situation. Put it this way you wouldn't be so chill if Kean or Coyle said it... As for a section of fans always not being happy I'd love you to name names on this one. I am sure that some posters moan more than others (perhaps I fall into that category) and maybe more than is warranted but the never happy stuff isn't true either. No one wasn't happy when we tonked Derby and Wycombe. No one wasn't happy we got promoted. No one was unhappy with how we did under Hughes or Souness. No one was unhappy with our cup run under Bowyer. Some fans are mainly negative but no one is never happy. Further holes in this are that those who like a good moan often have a particular focus, it's not about the whole situation (think of how many villain players we have had on here) which is very different from being unhappy at the whole situation. Also if we accept your premise that fans are always unhappy then bringing it up now is a poor argument because they have been there the previous 4 seasons and he hasn't though it is an issue. In fact if all clubs have them and it's a natural part of football it's a daft thing to complain about as it's a natural part of the game - like complaining about the weather. Honestly, I think it was a really low comment. It tarnishes fans, it associates all fans who aren't pleased with him into this group of unreasonable and self entitled group - which really don't exist. I get you like the manager and want to defend him, but this wouldn't be the hill I'd chose to defend. It's clearly a wrong move by TM and whilst there are other things he can be defended on, defending him on this suggests you think he can do no wrong.

Ok Paul, in what context should we take the fans aren't happy because they remember winning the Premier League? I won't go over all the reasons why it is a lie again, but the statement clearly is both false and manipulative, so what context makes that acceptable? Some of it may well be factually correct but it is hugely distorted! For example he is right saying we have had had a ton of centre backs out, but the reason is he assembled crocks there. That's like someone complaining no one would interview me for an education job but ommiting they can't get or pass a DBA! It's half a story and ultimately is their fault. Yes I am telling you that those is no section of fans who are never happy because we aren't winning the Premier League. Also the some never happy is a straw man argument. By this logic should we not reduce criticism of Ince, Coyle etc. See above it helps when you don't just assemble crocks. Also when you have a ton of midfielders stockpiled but no defenders, again you might think the manager is somewhat culpable. Hang on the morality of what he says and the reasons why are both good questions but they are seperate ones. One doesn't prevent the other unless you are trying to gloss ove the wrongdoing. Disagree on the good job and the good guy comments too. We'll gloss over the good job element for now (a whole other debate) but good guys do not make these sort of lies up. Morality may be tricky but statements which are so blatantly untrue and manipulative clearly.arejt the remit of good guys. Also if anyone didn't know that statement clearly could sit alongside many of Keans. Not saying he is the same but the statement is Kean-esque. You are trying to defend the indefensible. I hope you are right though TM.isjt making it classy

So let's get this straight - 4 years later after innumerable (ok 8 😎 windows), a healthy amount spent and no forced departures we still have no idea what the best formation is for our team? Doesn't that say everything about TM's tenure and why he has to go? Edit no idea how the emoji got there or why it won't allow me to delete it...

The excuses are getting greater in frequency and size. Not sure one game counts as a spell but there we go... Much of the defensive issues are his own making, especially the no centre backs fiasco. Honestly having a manager spout a load of guff in survival mode is really making it hard not to dislike him as a man as well as a manger.

Don't disagree things are better - in fact I am not sure they could get worse for that matter - my issue is saying things are good or even decent/normal/in place. TM a million times better than Kean, no argument there. But I do disagree and think the evidence disagrees that he is an honest guy who knows right from wrong. Good guys don't make up comments like that. Waggot is better than the chancers before. Definitely but again this is not enough and doesn't mean he is competent. If anything the current regime is benefitting from having the lowest expectations and predecessors ever. It's a poor do when the standard is not as terrible as the last lot.

I did read it Gav. Thing is I disagree! Well not completely, it is better than the Kean years and the 5 managers fiasco but they still are a circus. Opperationally as our cancellation shows we are still being run badly, as does the managers from.an agency, managers appointing their bosses, long runs with poor points returns and no response. Factor in Waggot doing his best to squeeze money from the fans and I think it's hard to say we have the fans or a footballing ethos at the heart. It's better but still bad. It's certainly not praiseworthy. One area I did however think we may have upped our game.in was the lack of immorality shown in the Kean era. However, against whilst not as bad overall as then, these comments are just as bad as anything Kean came out with. I won't repeat my rant save to say it's an utter fabrication detached from reality which I find utterly dishonest and immoral. That's probably why o reacted so strongly. I thought this circus master had a bit more integrity. As it is, those comments really do confirm he doesn't have the morals that I thought/hoped. They totally contradict the statement he makes about being open and honest. So yeah, strong reaction but far from an overreaction. he says he knows right from wrong and is open and honest BUT he also says comments like this. The two are incongruous, with the latter making a mockery out of the former.

Funny that Gav because it seems very wrong to me to say some fans are comparing him to the Premiership winning team and so will never be happy. Now this is clearly and evidently not true. For starters you won't find those comparisons on here, a site that is both representative of a broad section of fans and quite critical of him. It's not a comment that has been made. Secondly its clearly not been a criteria for success in the past. Souness and Hughes were clearly not at the level of the premiership winning team and yet very popular. Therefore such a comparison can't be true. Thirdly on a similar note it's not a criticism leveled at any of the dollopers previously eg Ince or Coyle, so it would have had to have magically originsyed with him. Logically 20 years ish later seems an odd time to start. Fourthly as others have said a fair chunk of those fans who can remember 95 remember some more austere times prior to that too! Fifthly if that is what a fan expects - winning the league - that would suggest they are a bit of a glory hunter. I find it hard to believe many fans with said expectations would stick around for 25 years of not having their expectations met. In short it is utter bull. And whilst I get morality is a tricky and complex subject to tell such a blatant lie, a complete fabrication, a distortion of reality, and all for the motive of protecting himself. Well, that doesn't smack of football values, honesty and integrity whatsoever. In fact, quite the reverse

Look any manager who says we fans are entitled because we compare him and the team to the Premiership winning team and only that will make us happy has no integrity. End of story. It's an absolute blatant lie with no basis in reality. No one - Hughes or Souness, Kidd or Ince has ever been compared with those days. To do so is frankly disgusting, maligning the fan base, and really should be enough to remove the wool from people's eyes. It's a comment on the level of the odious one it is that sneaky and detached from reality. Well, TM it has changed my mind. I wanted you out as you weren't good enough as a manager before the interview. Now I want you out because you aren't fit as a person to manage this great club. You now fail on both character and competence. Just do one.

Sadly the excuses and banging on about the journey are his style Paul. That's the problem. That said I think you are right that he might be under pressure to do such a large amount of self preservation in one go.

I dunno WIR. Personally I think that's a smart move. I often want to put my hands over my eyes watching us of late...

Whereas it has been a few years since anyone held TM up as a positive example...

Tony has evidently been reading this board. Just to clarify for him I'm not unhappy with his performance as manager because you aren't winning the premiership. I'm unhappy because he can't assemble or organize a defence, can't get us above mid table and are regressing, have made some terrible blunders in the transfer market and because he plays players stupidly out of position - Buckley and Gally being two prime examples.

Thing is if fans are always criticising your team selections - that strongly suggests you are getting them wrong! You can fool some of the people all the time and all that. If your selections are constantly questioned there's probably a reason for it. Also speaking of contradictions - he says Venkys don't know much about football (ha! understatement of the year) but they do understand we are on a journey. Impressive how they can know nothing and take a long term view at the same time.

Just to double check - are we on a journey? Every one of his points is actually a backhanded criticism of himself or a lie! No defenders - his fault for assembling the squad. Having to change the attitude - his fault for not doing after 4.5 years! Owners being good eggs, and no pleasing fans - pure lies. Journey - absolute lies. Journeys have progress and we aren't. Journeys don't take as long as this without tangible improvements. Honestly if anyone didn't want him gone before this then they should now. Lies and excuses that only highlight his ineptness.

It doesn't help when you tank the Fiend character with regular losses. That hurts Alexa Fiend as well as Bray Fiend. Also having her already beat Asuka also takes away some of the mystery of can Asuka cope with this new threat. Even if we ignore the booking issues and rather like this storyline - boy it doesn't half leave a lot of dross on the rest of the roster storyline wise. Worryingly I think they are trying to build Lee! His quick win Vs Orton, putting him with Drew, I think they want him to be a star but they still manage to do it so, so badly. Yeah, they have regularly done it which is crazy as they need new stars, loads of the work has already been done in NXT and everyone can tell who the talented performers are. Honestly it shocks me how badly they manage the company with such a regular conveyor belt of talent. It should keep things fresh, exciting and with tons of storyline potential. Yeah it's not been handled well at all. You forgot to add putting them in a feud with another heel group too! Couldn't have been worse if they tried. That said the concept I think could work. Turn up, beat people up, disappear. Then when the "signed" wrestlers do finally get a match or two with Retribution have Retribution win those too. Not hard to build up a stable, have them.beat people up and win matches. Amazing that they don't do this Yeah absolute shambles. That said Goldberg isn't one for promos beyond growling and looking menacing. Agree. Have him total a ton of people with the spear and then it becomes a what if he hits the spear on Drew type situation. Everyone knows he shouldn't be able to hang with Drew but the what if remains. There are tons of other ways they could have built it up too. Drew becoming patronising/Goldberg taking offence when Drew helps him Vs Orton. Or a Rocky 6 sort of situation where people discuss is Drew/the claymore better than Goldberg/the spear in its prime. Or an accidental spear or claymore to the other in a match. Loads of ways this could be done, but again it's done badly. Yeah they really can't build stars, they really really struggle. I do wonder if it will cost them though as the old timers can't go on forever.

Not sure how there's so much debate about the guy! He is clearly very talented (ok that's imo) and clearly there are huge question marks as to whether he will fulfil that potential for a myriad of reasons (also an imo). Whilst some of those question marks are to do with him - such as his size and mental fortitude - there's also huge questions over how TM uses him. Personally I don't think the odd cameo and some right back appearances (this being beyond stupid imo) will accurately ascertain whether he fulfils that potential. He needs a regular run of games to assess that. Not sure he is quite ready for us, so logically this has to be a loan, to make a proper valued judgement. TM needs to get him one sharpish because the right back farce isn't helping anyone. I think he has too much potential to ignore, too many question marks to throw into our first team making a loan a no-brainer. Sooner we do that, the sooner this debate will be settled.

What makes it worse is that the rub up to the Rumble and WM is a) the time for your best storylines, with a fitting climax at WM and b) is made somewhat easier by the presence of these two events. Hard to disagree with any of your analysis on Raw. What makes it even more painful is Ricochet and Riddle were super over on NXT and were utter stars in the making. Ricochet can do stuff no one else can, whilst Riddle also had a unique character and look. Both destroyed on the main roster. As for Retribution - a good idea horrifically executed. Hurt Business likewise. The best breakups happen when a ton of history is thrown away (The Shield for example) whereas this is the most rushed storyline ever. Vince has done wonders for wrestling but he's firmly on the downward slope now. Also - last rant - Goldberg in a main event at the Rumble. Aside from him being terrible these days it's a bit of a kicker to need to rely on him in the main event scene. Smacks of desperation and cluelessness.

Hard to disagree but uniting the fan base, a familiarity with the club, just as much success as TM all suggests he would be worth investigating as an option. Most of all he has had success here and whilst he has struggled elsewhere perhaps this club is a sweet spot, so to speak, which gets the best out of him as a manager. Worry is though it's a bit different these days at Ewood.

Unless we get a few adverse results in the next fixturea in which case the postponement will have disrupted momentum and our plans. "It is what it is but the postponement didn't help our momentum."

Absolutely! Credit where it is due. This is the first time I can think of where TMs training has stopped the opposition from scoring. It's a novel approach but his most successful one to date.

Really? I mean it doesn't seem to have done Norwich too badly. Or Stoke or Boro. Or jumping up a league many other teams from Spurs to Leicester. 2020 wasn't too shabby for Liverpool. I'm not sure why all these restrictions etc make it hard to judge us and hard for us to perform yet other teams have coped with it. Well clearly you are bothered as I am losing track of the why won't you accept my opinion posts. And I'll even answer that question for you -AN OPINION IS NOT UNCHALLENGEABLE, NOR DOES IT AUTOMATICALLY HAVE MERIT. Let me give a few examples. Let's say I think Shearer was a crap player. Should that opinion stand? It's got zero evidence to back it up, quite the contrary, so why should it be accepted? Also it's a bit of a moral danger to just accept/allow any opinion. Let's say - and to stress I really don't think this is the case - I think that black players are all rubbish. Now we've not only got zero evidence we'd have also strayed into racism. Again should this be allowed to fall back on why don't you accept my opinion? (Again to be clear I do NOT think that is the case.) Should such an opinion be inviolate? People aren't accepting your opinion because they profoundly disagree and think it is contrary to the evidence. And whilst a message board is a place of oppinions it is also a place where the weaknesses of said arguments will be highlighted. Such as, your assertion 2020 is unfair to use, as for many clubs in the same circumstances it was a good year.

My take is: Season 1 huge ask, didn't achieve it but enough positives and change to keep on. Season 2 promoted and achieved what was needed. Not an excellent job given our budget some dicey transfers and first few months in League 1 but a good job nevertheless. Season 3 achieved target of mid table. On paper a good job. In practice the latter half of the season include that horrible winless run, with his basic errors and blowing the budget really take the shine off and alarm bells ringing. With high standards for these reasons he should have gone at the end of this season but I can see the argument that he deserved another chance. I thought the errors outweighed the pros albeit the finish was acceptable Season 4 lost the plot. No keepers at the end of the season (and arguably during it), no long term defensive solutions, more money blown, more bizarre decisions, no realistic/serious play off challenge. Combined with last season momentum has to swing towards getting rid. Season 5: Same issues from basic errors, total stagnation. Further away from playoffs than last year. Poor defensive recruitment. Has to go. Anywhere else would have been potted at the end of the last 2 seasons and during this one, of which only after the first season back in the championship would he have any sort of case to argue contrary to sacking Only at Rovers with no accountability does he ride out the last two seasons and half of this one. Incidentally like Souness I think once the errors start to come (second half of our first championship return season) then it's a downhill slope from there and it's hard to recover from. The trick is to stop the rot before it becomes rot. And whereas it may be debatable when that point was we have definitely past it. Got to get rid.