Blue blood

Clutching at straws. And if the Kaminski wonder save hadn't happened yesterday it could have been a different result. It's a good result no doubt about it. But hardly a great one. I think Harry and Megan weren't married the last time Brum scored and their performance yesterday again confirmed that they are dross. So yes, good that we won, but not to get overexcited by the opposition. Then there's the context of 1 game win in 7 (I think) and the bigger issues. It's harder to get excited when TM is playing players out of position regularly, has assembled a defence of crocks, has ignored Davenport and Dolan, played Williams when not fit. The wider context of TMs mismanagement is a bit of a drain on excitement. Add in that the season is virtually already over - we won't go up or down in January - and you can see why enthusiasm isn't at an all time high.

So after a few hours reflection, I'm pleased with the win, really pleased for Dack, and certain TM isn't the right guy for us. Maybe I have run out of patience, but even the positives of certain players leave me frustrated. For example Dolan and Davenport - why have they had so little game time of late, when they can clearly contribute? Why Gally right wing? Our defensive situation is mostly of our own making. We were imo lucky we were playing a terrible, terrible Brum side. A better team could have caused us a lot more problems. It also shows why even under a TM death spiral we probably won't go down as there's some real dross in this league (and Brum aren't even in the relegation places!} So I see it more as a light relief rather than a turned corner. That said, great for Dack to get a goal after a horrible year. Good for Armstong too which will help keep his value up for when sold. And always nice to beat such a big club regardless of circumstances.

Papering over the cracks this win, but having said that I do like a good 2-0 wallpaper. Very fortunate we are playing such a poor team. Great to see Dack get a goal.after a very difficult year for him.

My thoughts went this way as well. That said Peacock and Daily and another horror combo Amoruso and Matteo, both had decent full backs with them. This 4 is shambolic across the back line.

Douglas at right back. What could possibly go wrong there. Also if Gally is right wing then that must make the most terrifying right hand side of the pitch I have seen ever. Poor Elliott will have a lot of work to cover 3 players. I sincerely hope Travis isn't another Williams situation. Although tjr manager is that stupid...

Don't be silly that never happens. The one that annoyed me most was Elliott. He was playing really well out wide so he moves him inside. Why? Just why? That is imbellic behaviour. There's no £5 million or teacher's pet reason to shoehorn Elliott into an unfamiliar position so why do it. I also don't think the current formation suits Dack at all but that's a longer term.worry. Goodness we are a mess.

It's a win. I know I predicted that against Wednesday and was wrong but the crisis is getting more serious now. We've even had rumblings of discontent on Facebook (things "not being great" is the nearest thing of pitchforks on there) and we are sliding down the table. We are, or were, flat track bullies, Brum are a basket case in terrible form. All in all we need a win to keep aiming for mediocracy and this is a golden opportunity to do so. Of course the injuries at the back - huge shock I know - make it a less obvious outcome. But even so a win is due. It will be heralded as turning the corner, the start of our season and our promotion push. Well, until the next loss when the excuses will re-emerge. But for today it's a Rovers win as we continue our journey of walking round in a circle. 2-1 Rovers.

No. That might have been one though. Knowing the ground I can imagine it's not a fun walk back into the dressing room. If that was one of is surprising it took till then for them to turn on Coyle as he was useless. Ince took only a couple of months.

Some well reasoned points and agree with a number of them though a tad harsh on a couple I feel (Neill especially). Interestingly based on your standards and criteria TM wouldn't get a look in for the Rovers job as has more blemishes then a lot of these options.

Yeah another fair point. That said he did well at Brum and they are a basket case of a club. So perhaps that, plus experience of it at Stoke, may quality him to do so? It certainly wouldn't be unfamiliar territory given he has worked at the two clubs mentioned.

Good and fair question. Not too concerning as in they aren't ideal and need a bit of investigation (if I were interviewing). However Stoke had been a real mess for years and a number of other managers also struggled with them. Like Sunderland they seemed a poisoned chalice and to have problems bigger than the manager. A number of good managers have failed there in recent years, as well as Lambert, so I wonder if it's more a case of issues with the club rather than the manager. (And shows how well O Neil is doing.) So I think there is some mitigation because of that. Derby again no one has done any better with them than he has. Another club that no matter what talent and money is thrown at it never manage to make it up. Again it seems a bit more than just a managerial issue. Also I don't recall him being there all that long either but could be wrong on that. I think this combined with the good work he has done at two other clubs means I lean more to giving him the benefit of the doubt. Not ideal sure, but Stoke I think has mitigating circumstances and two clubs he has done well at who punch above their weight - which is what we need. So that's why I would go for him.

Not trying to be disrespectful but who on earth would nave started supporting Rovers in the last 10 years? Clueless owners and crooked agents running the club. A divided fan base. Fans villified by those inside and outside of the club. Crap football and mainly poor results. Not really on TV or much coverage. Only one season have we even looked like success might be possible. I mean I'm Rovers through and through and we have a glorious history but can't see much attraction from the last 10 years or so, especially when combined with how much easier glory hunting is these days...

Like both suggestions. Both are solid low risk appointments who know the league and have got teams performing significantly better than they should. Neill also has a promotion on his CV with Norwich and has constantly got a lot out of an underfunded PNE team. Would improve our lot for sure. Compensation as you say may be an issue. Rowett - I get he has had a lot of clubs and it is an issue but generally he has done well. Has Millwall punching well above their weight and likewise did so for Birmingham as well. His blemishes aren't too concerning - Stoke and Derby - as mitigating circumstances. Perhaps not first choice but definitely an upgrade imo. Again compensation may be an issue.

TM for me. I'm not a particularly good footballer but (think!) I am a nice bloke and hard worker. The latter two qualities would see me get game time and the first doesn't seem to always be a criteria for selection at the moment. Would be my only chance to play for Rovers! Any other manager would turf me out to Barrow asap - well apart from Kean but I morally would be against playing for him. If we are assuming we are a good enough player to be a mainstay in the Rovers team of that era then it would be Hughes no doubt about it. Strikes me as a great balance of excellence and man.management.

I'm not sure whether he has lost or not, and which is worse. If this is this lot trying and playing for the manager heaven help us if they down tools. As a level of performance when motivated it's pretty shocking and he needs to go. On the other hand if he has lost the dressing room then there's no way back from it. It's an irredeemable situation and he needs to go. Fwiw I think the only team I have seen not playing for a Rovers manager is under Ince v Wigan away. Horrible to see. I've unfortunately seen a number of what I think is like the manager but can't be arsed as it doesn't matter situations - Kidd and Bowyer - which is what I think we have now.

Another example of TM not being a good guy. This rewrites reality. It's not as though Ayala hasn't had fitness issues prior to Rovers. It's hardly as if a new system has suddenly caused these problems. Everyone on this board, all Boro fans acknowledged he had injury issues so the idea that this is an unfortunate and unexpected result of a new system simply isn't true. Furthermore IF the new system has made the injury problems worse (which given his past record I don't think is the case) then that just shows negligence on TMs part. Ayala's fitness worries were hardly a surprise. So if there is any truth in it, then it highlights incompetence. Then there's the with all due respect which is a sly dig at 2 other managers. Different systems and positions require different amounts of running. Neutral statement. Until you add in the with due respect which starts to hint at the idea that the way we play is a better way of playing. Results would suggest otherwise but TM trying to slip in how great our style is even though it is as effective as a chocolate teapot. No it's another load of bull from a great guy. Disappointing to see. It's like Bowyer mark 2 in all respects including the increasingly stupid comments.

Yes it's a terrible excuse which reflects very badly on him. After 4 years I have only managed to acquire 1 player with the desired attitude. Tiny that's not an excuse - that's another admission of gross negligence on your part.

Other than TM is anyone surprised we have so many injured defenders? Also why can we have 215 midfielders but no squad cover in defence. Either TM is blind for having this issue 4 seasons running or Venkys are even bigger idiots with their restrictions on spending. Build from the back. One of football's most basic principles, one of the first I learned when getting into football as a lad, and yet our club ignored such a fundamental and basic part of the game.

Well he didn't play for Boro and his fitness record isn't terrible. Excluded on both grounds. Shame as he looks like he would have been a better signing for us.

Whoever it is they cannot be worse. Just consider that the current set up, with no accountability and no chance of promotion is the best they have come up with so far. The bars so low it needs digging up from the ground.

Don't worry lads a few more losses like this and the players will realise the spotlight might fall on the shocking job TM is doing. They'll then pull their fingers out for a few games and get a few results to ensure easy street remains. We can't beat top, bottom or middle at the moment. We don't have any centre halves. We don't have plan B and plan A has been found out. Still for those wanting progress remember it's a journey. We are only 5 points behind those footballing giants Barnsley and a solitary point behind the mighty Luton. How is TM supposed to compete with them and their budgets having only had 3 full years in the gig? And remember too that attacking football means we are much, much more likely to win games as we've proved v Wednesday, Stoke and Huddersfield.

Worrying for Brum as Derby aren't a good side and have a manager with the nous of mashed potatoe.

Now this clearly isn't true. In fact the evidence refutes this quite considerably. I could write an essay on this but just three quick pieces of evidence. 1) Top teams are always built from the back. Manure under Fergie, Chelski under the annoying one, Rovers under King Kenny. Sure the SAS got the headlines and were a huge factor but it was built on a solid foundation of defense - Berg, Hendry, Le Saux, Flowers etc. Boring boring Arsenal under George Graham. Liverpool's success under Klopp finally came when they shelled out for a top class centre back and goalkeeper. Coincidence? No. Since forever good teams have always been built on a solid defence. 2) The defence issue also works the other way too. What does Big Sam do to keep teams up - tighten the defence. Warnock likewise kept a fair few teams up with a similar strategy. Heck Hughes when he first came in started by stabilising the defence. Teams stay up and are successful built on a good defense. 3) The evidence at Rovers clearly doesn't back up your point. We are no better off with this new style so there is no proof that it has improved us or our chances to get promotion. In fact we are worse off then last year so if anything it has hindered. Then take the previous example under Coyle - we scored a fair few but leaked more (as I recall). The evidence at our own club shows that this attacking style doesn't lead to more success. I may still be on ignore (a tad unjustly as there's been no personal attacks but there we go) but regardless I think it's worth highlighting the myth that this attacking football has improved our chances of success.

Have a horrible feeling under TM that these games are already approaching dead rubber as under his guidance we won't make playoffs or get relegated this season. We have had a few bad results, what passes for pressure at Rovers is mounting, so we will probably get a win. With the win cue "we're only X points from playoffs," "now we will kick on," and "we've turned a corner" only for us to realise in a few games time we haven't pressed on at all. The world war 1 trench warfare advanced more quickly than out journey under TM. Still after a few poor results a win would be a welcome change and give momentary cheer. Also for good or bad, attended/watched or checked result I do enjoy looking at all the results and the match reports and the reaction on here after a game. If football is shut down again, it'll certainly take away a key aspect of my weekend. I appreciate though that's not the prime factor in the powers that be decision making process.

My key issues with TM are as follows. Firstly his we are on a journey. Whilst technically true, in reality it's far from the case. Firstly what blips has he had? Dack's injury admittedly. Outside of that - none. Souness in a similar time frame lost pretty much permenantly as they came back lesser players Gresko, Thompson and Jansen. He's had to make no sales whatsoever. Hughes journey started with having to buy a new star striker every year and many other managers have to replace key players. TM has had none of that, yet said journey goes at a snails pace. On that there is also the inference the journey must take a long time. That's news for Boro and Stoke who were both a shambles last year but are now comfortably above us. Or clubs which have bounced up the divisions - remember Norwich and Southampton doing that. Am I expecting us to do similar - no but it kiboshes the idea that it takes 3+ years to do so. A vaguely realistic attempt at playoffs would have been more than feasible by this point. Also on said journey where is the progress? It's the same level of points, same mistakes, same problems - we aren't on a journey, we have made camp. Which leads me onto my second issue. Basic mistakes are repeatedly made. When you make the same mistakes over and over it shows there is no learning, no awareness, no chance of progress. And the same mistakes are made year after year. We have been short on defenders since the promotion year. Still no change there. We have constantly played players out of position - no change there. Poor performers take an age to be dropped, if at all. Nayambe has been crapped on season after season (although this season it helps him all his replacements are injured). We spunk the majority of our budget on a poor striker - twice. Need a player - let's go to Boro. Heck even the Stoke and Sheffield Wednesday games, in a not too far apart span of days follow the exact same procedure. Then there's letting player chose whether they are fit to play, extending contracts of players who never play. These mistakes are amature hour. Add in comments like it's boys trying to score against men comments (ok have gone past the two key reasons now) which is at Comical Ali levels of credibility we see he's not the golden boy some think he is. He's the best manager we have had under Venkys BUT he's still mediocre at best. Nowhere else would he be looked on favourably with such glaring errors. Only in a Venkys induced nightmare.