Blimey Bennett or Buckley at rb. Talk about a race to the bottom. Neither good enough for a championship reserve RB. Criminal that this is the debate.

Not really kept up with this - mainly because our season is over. But to chip in my thoughts on players currently being discussed. The Everton loan lad - meh, well we need a centre back but it's another sticky plaster on a big wound. A loan with option to buy from a player who would sign permenantly would've been my preference, as it might go towards addressing the defence long term. Maybe a promising league 1 player or a defender who is out of favour elsewhere in the championship. That said we never do that, so this is probably as good as it gets. Trybull - compared to Evans I really rate him. Compared to others less so. If he's occupying Evans place in the squad I'm fine with him being here as it's a clear upgrade. As a long term (though it isn't given its a loan) first team midfielder I think he's far too mediocre Buckley - I like him and think there's a heck of a talent there. Getting that talent out of him is the trick as plenty of talented players don't go on to make it. The right back nonsense will not help this in the slightest. A loan may be the best option but think he is worth persevering with as IF he lives up to his potential we have a very good player. Other signings - only if it benefits next year and are permanents. After all this year we ain't going anywhere so it's a bit of a waste in some ways bringing in more players.

One thing I will say for Souness is that he had some terrible luck that didn't help him. Sure he made some clangers and didn't spend money well at times but he lost three of our best players to injury who all came back much lesser players: Gresko, Jansen and Thompson were all playing brilliantly for us before severe injuries made them much lesser players. Having those three at their peak would have made a huge difference. That said he fell out with all and sundry, wasted money towards the end and there is no excuse for the WBA team selection. His time had definitely run out. And that was with real tangible success for three solid seasons. TM hasn't been half as successful relatively speaking and yet is spoken about with awe in some quarters. But I think they do share the trait of having completely lost the plot.

Two left backs, three centre backs (one of whom went on to play left back a lot under Hughes in the rest of that season) and a left midfielder. You're right - it was a terrible team. And De Pedro was a hell of a flop.

It's a funny one with Souness. Had he run his course? The 03/04 season was pretty dire as I recall with a lot of player fall outs. The start of the next season was mixed. The line up in the opening game v WBA was so bizarre even TM wouldn't have chosen it. Had something like 8 defenders in and Emerton as the only player on the right hand side! Was sure he had lost it then. Next game we totally bossed manure and only a refereeing performance that WWE wouldn't have sanctioned as it was too implausible prevented us from getting the win. Was convinced after that game we were on the up. As it was the fact we struggled for most of the season with the excellent Hughes in place and it took time to turn us around suggests that Souness had run his course and we were heading downhill under him.

Thanks for clearing that up. It I am reading that right you are saying it's the same in terms of no expectations of going up in either circumstance? Fair enough I get that. Outside of that I'd say the situations are very different because of the owners competence and intent. At least you knew back then that the club was competently run and the owners want the best for us. Now it's just a shambles on all fronts. That's exactly my point - it isn't an excuse! I don't think it's an excuse either way. It doesn't detract from our League 1 success not does it exonorate our pitiful attempts at promotion under TM. I've never used the terms can't compete because my word one of the things I have loved most about Rovers as a smaller club is we have competed. Hughes and Souness eras the big boys knew they were in for.a hell of a rough time with us. There's another post of mine elsewhere which I won't fully repeat where I highlight the fallacy of not being able to compete. At present that's news to a host of clubs including Boro and Reading. It's harder yes but far, far from impossible.

The point that came across from yourself was the two periods were the same situation. What's been highlighted was the massive difference in intent and competence of those running the club, even amidst poverty. That difference is huge and shows the two situations aren't like for like at all Also you are giving TM credit for his promotion. How so when teams just couldn't compete with us financially? Surely it was just a formalit. if it's an excuse for our malaise now it vetos any praise for TMs promotion by the same logic.

Spot on Stuart we aren't improved and we are still at the whim of the most incompetent owners in football. If we can't improve any more with anyone at the helm because of the owners then we aren't in a good place at all! Also how are 5-6 clubs we can't compete with financially like the 80s? I don't follow that logic though admittedly not that au fait with 80s Rovers. Firstly finance is seperate from competence. Competing financially is different to having competent people at the helm - two very different issues. Secondly how have these 5-6 clubs got a massive financial advantage over us? Brentford have never had more money than us - but they have done transfers well. Nothing we couldn't have done. No natural advantage over us. Also whilst parachute payments do make a huge difference remember we had that advantage and spunked it. Hard to cry foul when that's the case. Also I could be wrong but in getting to the Prem the first time round I'm fairly sure a number of these clubs did it on not overly huge budgets. Norwich have an advantage this time round but did they first time they went up? Likewise Huddersfield when they went up. Thirdly I'm not sure it's the case now that we can't compete. what about all those clubs that are competing with those we can't compete with? Preston till now have been at the door of the playoffs for a few seasons. Boro don't have huge amounts of money. Reading either. How do they manage it?! (And we are working on the assumption that the money the relegated clubs have is disposable income not tied up in weighty unhelpful contracts and the like.) Saying we can't compete is news to a whole host of clubs like Brentford, Boro and Reading to name three. It's a falicy and falsehood to protect those running the club from criticism. Also on this basis too I assume TM deserves no credit for getting us back to the championship because some clubs couldn't financially compete with us. Goodness it doesn't half grate when I hear this it is what is is just accept it guff. It erradicates blame from the owner and manager for giving us this disadvantage and excuses them not competing when we clearly, even if it's more difficult, can compete with them. It's crap standards in the club are so low. It's gutting when fans have those same aspirations.

Here's the thing there are only two arguments you can use to say that TM should stay in post. The first is he has done a great job and deserves to stay in post. Honestly, I struggle to see how that's the case for a couple of reasons. On one hand he's done a decent job, with some really impressive signings but there are a fair few blemishes on the way too. Some big and key signings haven't worked out at all, we got relegated first time with him, and three years of no forced sales and a decent budget and we are no nearer promotion, have a style that works, or even having a fully fit and competent defence. That's not progress or a good job whatsoever. Worst of all there are basic errors that an under 11s coach wouldn't make. A few excellent pieces of business and one promotion with a budget that dwarfs everyone else's isn't really enough. It's hardly a great job by any standards and warrants keeping him in it. Remember he took us ona run of 1 win in 11 that would have seen him sacked anywhere else. The Doncaster game was another piece of evidence of the far from excellent job that he is doing. Losing to a decimated lower league team using a ton of first team players? He's doing a great job so should stay in post - let's debunk the myth. It's not a good job, it's a decent one. Even if somehow we were to conclude it is a great job prior to this season that doesn't mean the wheels haven't come off. Souness was brilliant for 3 seasons but lost the plot at the end. He had to go because irrespective of 3 excellent seasons he was losing it. (Remember 8 defenders playing vs West Brom?) Just because a manager has done well, doesn't give them carte blanche to continue when they reach the end of their shelf life. And he clearly has. Players hopelessly out of position, a defence that gets more rickity as time goes on, looking devoid of a plan, and substitutions that just plain baffle. TM really looks as if he has lost the plot. So great job prior or not (and it really isn't a great job) if he's lost it, he needs to go. The other reason is we will get someone worse, we can't get better. Firstly this is no endorsement of TM whatsoever. If I had a school bus i wouldn't employ the drunk even if he is a better fit than the person who fails a DBS check. I've not seen it used along the lines of TM is pretty poor, or mediocre at best, there's not an acknowledgement of TM's inability that accompanies this statement. If there were then I think I could stomach it a bit more, as the owners couldn't run a bath much less a football club. There is a genuine worry there as to who will be appointed if TM goes. However, it's often used as a shield to protect TM from criticism, which annoys me. Again the key issue with this is how well TM is doing. We won't get better suggests that TM is currently at a level where we won't improve upon via recruitment. Sadly, even though the owners strike me as a shower and we would appoint someone pretty unimpressive, I think that bar would still be higher than TM currently. Buckley at right back. Gally on the wing. Elliott not on the wing because he was playing well there. Only signing crocks in defence. Persisting with Walton, Bennett, Smallwood, Mulgrew long past their sell by date. Williams chosing whether he can play. These are utterly basic errors that any manager would improve on. TM is making errors that most managers wouldn't make, and so even if the new person isn't that good, quite possibly they would be better than TM and an upgrade, simply by not doing criminally stupid basic errors. So I struggle to see how he can't be an upgrade. Add in the fact there are a ton of good managers out there, including in the lower leagues, and you compare them to TM's achievements. Even in Venkys bargain basement of managers there's candidates who think sticking the big lad up top and having defenders who are fit are good ideas. The idea we won't get better is predicated on the idea that TM is doing a decent job, when it's at best decent, but imo is rapidly slipping. Put it this way, with all the favourable conditions TM has had - no fear for his job, no sales, decent budget, we're still style-less, unable to mount any sort of promotion challenge, and getting done by Donny reserves at home. Like Bowyer, what's going to happen when adversity hits? If this is what it's like when things are favourable, what's it like when it's tough. From all the evidence, and past experience - relegation. Get rid ASAP

Hmm, only caught the last 5-10 minutes on this (which in hindsight was a good move on my part) and it is a very disappointing day. As I said in the pre match comments this was our best chance of a bit of excitement and "success" through a decent cup run. As it is, the season is now over. A number of disappointing things about today. 1) The team was pretty decent. It had Dack, Bereton, Travis, our only fit centre back, and a number of seasoned Championship level pros in the team. We also brought on Rothwell, one our best midfielders, as well as arguably our best two attacking players. On paper that is a fairly solid team to put out - so for them to get nothing from Donny is pretty poor and embarrassing. The Under 23s standing in this was not. 3) Speaking of embarrassing that defence! To have to have 2 midfielders in a back line really shows you have arsed up your recruitment spectacularly in the defensive department. One is poor, two is criminal negligence. Terrible squad creation by TM with regards to the defence. 3) On the defence Buckley, who I quite like, is not a right back. He's not got a single attribute of a right back. When a player is young and struggling to cement a place in his standard position, putting him in a position that he is physically and wholly unsuitable to is only going to be to the detriment of the player and the team. I just don't get it, unless someone has said to TM a player cannot be played more out of position than Gally on the wing, and he's taken that as a challenge. 4) Really poor performance by all acounts. The last 10 minutes wasn't pretty. Seems like with the subs all went to pot and no one had an idea where or what was going on. If a situation can be complicated then trust TM to do it. 5) Also with so many good players having an off day questions need to be asked as to whether TM has lost the dressing room. I don't think he has but then e's rarely have so many players play so badly. Most significantly of all, to me the season is ended. We ain't going up or down, there's no cup magic. There's not even an assessment period for the new manager to use this season for. So yeah, excitement and interest in Rovers is certainly dipping now. Shame it comes at a time when there is naff all else to do.

McCarthy has left his latest role in Cyprus. Would take him over TM despite it not working out over there. He's now out of work which seems a key requirement for our owners.

Think I have a different view to most on here. With TM at the helm we aren't getting promoted. And given I don't think he is going anywhere anytime soon that suggests the league games are a tad meaningless in terms of ambitions. There's also a lot of dross in our league like Brum who oblige even our paper thin defence with the odd win. Said dross coupled with the points we have already acquired means we are pretty much safe from relegation. So for me why not go for it in this game? A good cup run is our best chance of success and optimism this season so why not give it a go? Sure there will be a couple of players knackered who need resting but overall the risks imo are pretty limited. It's not going to massively detail our push for mid table. So let's try and recreate a bit of magic of the cup and begin a good cup run v Donny or forefit.

Clutching at straws. And if the Kaminski wonder save hadn't happened yesterday it could have been a different result. It's a good result no doubt about it. But hardly a great one. I think Harry and Megan weren't married the last time Brum scored and their performance yesterday again confirmed that they are dross. So yes, good that we won, but not to get overexcited by the opposition. Then there's the context of 1 game win in 7 (I think) and the bigger issues. It's harder to get excited when TM is playing players out of position regularly, has assembled a defence of crocks, has ignored Davenport and Dolan, played Williams when not fit. The wider context of TMs mismanagement is a bit of a drain on excitement. Add in that the season is virtually already over - we won't go up or down in January - and you can see why enthusiasm isn't at an all time high.

So after a few hours reflection, I'm pleased with the win, really pleased for Dack, and certain TM isn't the right guy for us. Maybe I have run out of patience, but even the positives of certain players leave me frustrated. For example Dolan and Davenport - why have they had so little game time of late, when they can clearly contribute? Why Gally right wing? Our defensive situation is mostly of our own making. We were imo lucky we were playing a terrible, terrible Brum side. A better team could have caused us a lot more problems. It also shows why even under a TM death spiral we probably won't go down as there's some real dross in this league (and Brum aren't even in the relegation places!} So I see it more as a light relief rather than a turned corner. That said, great for Dack to get a goal after a horrible year. Good for Armstong too which will help keep his value up for when sold. And always nice to beat such a big club regardless of circumstances.

Papering over the cracks this win, but having said that I do like a good 2-0 wallpaper. Very fortunate we are playing such a poor team. Great to see Dack get a goal.after a very difficult year for him.

My thoughts went this way as well. That said Peacock and Daily and another horror combo Amoruso and Matteo, both had decent full backs with them. This 4 is shambolic across the back line.

Douglas at right back. What could possibly go wrong there. Also if Gally is right wing then that must make the most terrifying right hand side of the pitch I have seen ever. Poor Elliott will have a lot of work to cover 3 players. I sincerely hope Travis isn't another Williams situation. Although tjr manager is that stupid...

Don't be silly that never happens. The one that annoyed me most was Elliott. He was playing really well out wide so he moves him inside. Why? Just why? That is imbellic behaviour. There's no £5 million or teacher's pet reason to shoehorn Elliott into an unfamiliar position so why do it. I also don't think the current formation suits Dack at all but that's a longer term.worry. Goodness we are a mess.

It's a win. I know I predicted that against Wednesday and was wrong but the crisis is getting more serious now. We've even had rumblings of discontent on Facebook (things "not being great" is the nearest thing of pitchforks on there) and we are sliding down the table. We are, or were, flat track bullies, Brum are a basket case in terrible form. All in all we need a win to keep aiming for mediocracy and this is a golden opportunity to do so. Of course the injuries at the back - huge shock I know - make it a less obvious outcome. But even so a win is due. It will be heralded as turning the corner, the start of our season and our promotion push. Well, until the next loss when the excuses will re-emerge. But for today it's a Rovers win as we continue our journey of walking round in a circle. 2-1 Rovers.

No. That might have been one though. Knowing the ground I can imagine it's not a fun walk back into the dressing room. If that was one of is surprising it took till then for them to turn on Coyle as he was useless. Ince took only a couple of months.

Some well reasoned points and agree with a number of them though a tad harsh on a couple I feel (Neill especially). Interestingly based on your standards and criteria TM wouldn't get a look in for the Rovers job as has more blemishes then a lot of these options.

Yeah another fair point. That said he did well at Brum and they are a basket case of a club. So perhaps that, plus experience of it at Stoke, may quality him to do so? It certainly wouldn't be unfamiliar territory given he has worked at the two clubs mentioned.

Good and fair question. Not too concerning as in they aren't ideal and need a bit of investigation (if I were interviewing). However Stoke had been a real mess for years and a number of other managers also struggled with them. Like Sunderland they seemed a poisoned chalice and to have problems bigger than the manager. A number of good managers have failed there in recent years, as well as Lambert, so I wonder if it's more a case of issues with the club rather than the manager. (And shows how well O Neil is doing.) So I think there is some mitigation because of that. Derby again no one has done any better with them than he has. Another club that no matter what talent and money is thrown at it never manage to make it up. Again it seems a bit more than just a managerial issue. Also I don't recall him being there all that long either but could be wrong on that. I think this combined with the good work he has done at two other clubs means I lean more to giving him the benefit of the doubt. Not ideal sure, but Stoke I think has mitigating circumstances and two clubs he has done well at who punch above their weight - which is what we need. So that's why I would go for him.

Not trying to be disrespectful but who on earth would nave started supporting Rovers in the last 10 years? Clueless owners and crooked agents running the club. A divided fan base. Fans villified by those inside and outside of the club. Crap football and mainly poor results. Not really on TV or much coverage. Only one season have we even looked like success might be possible. I mean I'm Rovers through and through and we have a glorious history but can't see much attraction from the last 10 years or so, especially when combined with how much easier glory hunting is these days...

Like both suggestions. Both are solid low risk appointments who know the league and have got teams performing significantly better than they should. Neill also has a promotion on his CV with Norwich and has constantly got a lot out of an underfunded PNE team. Would improve our lot for sure. Compensation as you say may be an issue. Rowett - I get he has had a lot of clubs and it is an issue but generally he has done well. Has Millwall punching well above their weight and likewise did so for Birmingham as well. His blemishes aren't too concerning - Stoke and Derby - as mitigating circumstances. Perhaps not first choice but definitely an upgrade imo. Again compensation may be an issue.