If he had said that I would have handed him his P45. Brentford (much better run I admit) prove that you can compete with those clubs with more financial muscle. No parachute payments there. Boro and Reading making a decent stab of competing too. As have Preston, Millwall etc over the years and Huddersfield and Norwich when they got promoted first time round. Also in a league where any team can and does beat any other this defeatest attitude particularly grates. Not saying it is easy, we have an automatic right to be top 6 or anything like that but the idea we can't compete is not true.

1) it's also based on reports from Boro fans I work with.as well as 3 poor games, which seems to be in keeping with their reports. Also I said not very good which is less dramatic than your summation. Have to say both on reports from previous and what seems it appears a fair assessment of him. Also given he is a number 2 he isn't going to get huge amounts of games is he. Leuts only made a handful prior to him and Raya leaving but it was enough to see he was poor. 2) if anything this makes signing him worse. Him being a crock would have been much less a gamble had our other defenders been more robust. In fact it would have probably been a more worthwhile gamble to take in those circumstances. As it is with two other centre backs badly injury prone it was playing with fire. 3) Not sure the goalposts are being moved. Both the defence AND the keeper situation really needed badly sorting. Yes we needed a couple of keepers, no arguments from me there - I agree with you. We also however really needed to strengthen a depleted and injury prone defence. That the money went on a second keeper when we already had the Greek lad as back up, and we badly needed defensive reinforcements too, seems a poor use of the money. Don't think that's hindsight whatsoever. 4) Maybe it was key to us signing him, in which case we were had. It's bad business regardless of how much it happens in football as we don't come out well from it. I'm not sure why eyebrows can't be raised at Pears contract. Is a second choice keeper who hasn't really performed really worth a 4 year deal? I would have expected he would have had more to prove to justify being locked down for that long. It's not like a Dack or Armstrong situation of tying down your star players. What I will say though is if it was longer for a lower wage than perhaps that makes sense and I would withdraw that criticism as I could see why you would want that situation.

Probably because 1) Pears isn't very good. 2) Ayala is a crock adding to a list of other defensive crocks - not what was needed. 3) We paid a fee for a second choice keeper when we already had a second choice and haven't spent a fee on a permanent defender since 1066. 4) Despite ability and fitness doubts respectively they got overly long contracts, 4 and 3 years respectively. Overly generous is an overly generous way of describing such details. No issues with managers using contacts they have Hughes with Savage and Bellamy, Souness with Tugay and Friedel. The issue is when they aren't up to standard or the details of the deal seem questionable then it's unsurprising that people start to grumble and ask questions. As it is for the reasons above the deals seem at best unwise and at worse negligent.

Agree the hope kills you. Even then the 3 away games you list there's room for optimism. None of the three teams have been infallible and we could in theory well take at least a point in each of those games. The problem is though in theory and practice we are more than capable of losing a lot of those winnable games as well as getting the three points. Factor in our mental fragility as well and though theoretically possible I very much doubt we will get in the playoffs.

Thing is you may have given your reason for why 2020 isn't a good year to use but your reasoning is to put it bluntly, wrong! It's untrue, it's false, it is not factually or logically correct. 1) The global pandemic impacts ALL clubs. (The clue is in the global part...) It's not as though Rovers are the only team affected by it. 2) Combined with point 1, many clubs seem to have done alright in the pandemic. Liverpool were still awarded the Premier League, Leeds the Championship - these things didn't not happen because of the pandemic. Closer to home Stoke, Boro and Reading have all turned round their fortunes within a global pandemic. All of this evidence proves success was possible in a pandemic. 3) What are said effects that have made it harder for Rovers rather than others? Empty stadiums, less spending power? Given bigger clubs have tightened their belts if anything this may have levelled the playing field a bit financially. Or perhaps the pandemic didn't allow for squad changes to be made? Surely a club with a manager in post for 4 years may have had more pieces in place than those who have had less time? I struggle to see how pandemic effects make it specifically worse for Rovers. Yes I am sure that said poster is longing for us to be even more chaotic and struggling even more. Top of their wish list. Also the idea that the only options are Mowbray or mess if a false dichotomy. There are other options as well as those two choices. Appreciate you probably mean to say it could be worse if TM goes (not that you would ever take anything literally) but it has to be acknowledged those aren't the only 2 options on the table.

Rev I can guarantee that's exactly how we will play this one if it comes about.

Mate, it didn't even warrant a mention in Chaddys match report until someone challenged him on it, so not thinking it is a red card is hardly surprising. Comical Ali had more objectivity than said poster. My take too. Especially given the media focus on it and the level of injury. I mean it's the most obvious penalty and dangerous play example ever (whatever card you deem it to be, though imo it has to be red.) Saying he didn't deem it worth anything is the equivalent of admitting you aren't up to standard. Career suicide for the chap. So a retrospective ban is likely. This would leave us short defensively again.

My thoughts on the game: Positives: Kaminski! When TM gets a transfer wrong he gets it very wrong. Fortunately the reverse is true and Kaminski is a better of a signing at a steal of a price. Great performance. Nice to see Lenihen show his old form. Good to see there's a player still in there. By error or design we may have found a system that works/suits our main assets 4-2-3-1. Think if you have Dack and Armstrong in their best positions then you are going to be strong offensively. Gally seems to be a decent impact sub not sure that's enough for his wages but it's at least some use for him. Three points and a clean sheet is really great. Even if we needed a piece of absymal reffing to help it is great we managed to see the rest of the game out. Negatives The Buckley Johnson midfield issues. Johnson is a bit injury prone and inconsistent and the Buckley sub really didn't work. The first half was very unconvincing. A better team would have punished us. We start so slowly of late, and whilst we got away with it today it needs to be addressed. Especially the errors in defence. They really need to be cut out. The penalty and red card. We were super lucky imo on this one. Deffo a penalty which would have changed the game. TM bangs on about it when we don't get things our way so we were very fortunate to get away with it. And if it's mitigating circumstances when we lose, it certainly should be when we win too. To me it was a red, high and studs up - intent is not a factor. Would certainly have given it/wanted it as a red if it were the other way round, also as a neutral too. Think we were very lucky on this one as it was a lucky escape. Can't decide if positive or negative: Boro weren't that special, they crumbled when we scored. We won. And these lot are fighting for promotion. They're nothing special but are in the mix. That's encouraging because we beat a team in the mix and they certainly weren't anything to fear in resilience or quality. So it's encouraging because the teams near the top aren't that good. It's discouraging though because as mediocre as Boro are we still aren't in or realistically likely to get playoffs. It's discouraging to think that even though there is nothing to fear in this division that we still can't make any headway. Which is probably where to end this post - nothing to fear, nothing to be excited about but a welcome three points and win in our mid table jaunt.

Heck of a piece of PR when the main incident in question is completely ignored! Sure, the manager's reaction at the end of the game is mentioned but the incident and it's implications aren't. There's having a Rovers slant and there's a complete lack of objectivity devaluing said opinion. When the main incident going outrageously in our favour is totally ignored it leaves you in the latter camp.

Mate you even admit he is telling porkys about the Premier League stuff. And that's a huge problem as it makes the fans out to be entitled, ubeducated and unreasonable, which isn't true. It tells a narrative of unreasonable expectations so fans will never be happy - it completely excuses his failures by making it seem like fans have too high expectations. So yeah, I think it's a poor do because it's false, besmirches the fans and aims to manipulate the outside view of the situation. Put it this way you wouldn't be so chill if Kean or Coyle said it... As for a section of fans always not being happy I'd love you to name names on this one. I am sure that some posters moan more than others (perhaps I fall into that category) and maybe more than is warranted but the never happy stuff isn't true either. No one wasn't happy when we tonked Derby and Wycombe. No one wasn't happy we got promoted. No one was unhappy with how we did under Hughes or Souness. No one was unhappy with our cup run under Bowyer. Some fans are mainly negative but no one is never happy. Further holes in this are that those who like a good moan often have a particular focus, it's not about the whole situation (think of how many villain players we have had on here) which is very different from being unhappy at the whole situation. Also if we accept your premise that fans are always unhappy then bringing it up now is a poor argument because they have been there the previous 4 seasons and he hasn't though it is an issue. In fact if all clubs have them and it's a natural part of football it's a daft thing to complain about as it's a natural part of the game - like complaining about the weather. Honestly, I think it was a really low comment. It tarnishes fans, it associates all fans who aren't pleased with him into this group of unreasonable and self entitled group - which really don't exist. I get you like the manager and want to defend him, but this wouldn't be the hill I'd chose to defend. It's clearly a wrong move by TM and whilst there are other things he can be defended on, defending him on this suggests you think he can do no wrong.

Ok Paul, in what context should we take the fans aren't happy because they remember winning the Premier League? I won't go over all the reasons why it is a lie again, but the statement clearly is both false and manipulative, so what context makes that acceptable? Some of it may well be factually correct but it is hugely distorted! For example he is right saying we have had had a ton of centre backs out, but the reason is he assembled crocks there. That's like someone complaining no one would interview me for an education job but ommiting they can't get or pass a DBA! It's half a story and ultimately is their fault. Yes I am telling you that those is no section of fans who are never happy because we aren't winning the Premier League. Also the some never happy is a straw man argument. By this logic should we not reduce criticism of Ince, Coyle etc. See above it helps when you don't just assemble crocks. Also when you have a ton of midfielders stockpiled but no defenders, again you might think the manager is somewhat culpable. Hang on the morality of what he says and the reasons why are both good questions but they are seperate ones. One doesn't prevent the other unless you are trying to gloss ove the wrongdoing. Disagree on the good job and the good guy comments too. We'll gloss over the good job element for now (a whole other debate) but good guys do not make these sort of lies up. Morality may be tricky but statements which are so blatantly untrue and manipulative clearly.arejt the remit of good guys. Also if anyone didn't know that statement clearly could sit alongside many of Keans. Not saying he is the same but the statement is Kean-esque. You are trying to defend the indefensible. I hope you are right though TM.isjt making it classy

So let's get this straight - 4 years later after innumerable (ok 8 😎 windows), a healthy amount spent and no forced departures we still have no idea what the best formation is for our team? Doesn't that say everything about TM's tenure and why he has to go? Edit no idea how the emoji got there or why it won't allow me to delete it...

The excuses are getting greater in frequency and size. Not sure one game counts as a spell but there we go... Much of the defensive issues are his own making, especially the no centre backs fiasco. Honestly having a manager spout a load of guff in survival mode is really making it hard not to dislike him as a man as well as a manger.

Don't disagree things are better - in fact I am not sure they could get worse for that matter - my issue is saying things are good or even decent/normal/in place. TM a million times better than Kean, no argument there. But I do disagree and think the evidence disagrees that he is an honest guy who knows right from wrong. Good guys don't make up comments like that. Waggot is better than the chancers before. Definitely but again this is not enough and doesn't mean he is competent. If anything the current regime is benefitting from having the lowest expectations and predecessors ever. It's a poor do when the standard is not as terrible as the last lot.

I did read it Gav. Thing is I disagree! Well not completely, it is better than the Kean years and the 5 managers fiasco but they still are a circus. Opperationally as our cancellation shows we are still being run badly, as does the managers from.an agency, managers appointing their bosses, long runs with poor points returns and no response. Factor in Waggot doing his best to squeeze money from the fans and I think it's hard to say we have the fans or a footballing ethos at the heart. It's better but still bad. It's certainly not praiseworthy. One area I did however think we may have upped our game.in was the lack of immorality shown in the Kean era. However, against whilst not as bad overall as then, these comments are just as bad as anything Kean came out with. I won't repeat my rant save to say it's an utter fabrication detached from reality which I find utterly dishonest and immoral. That's probably why o reacted so strongly. I thought this circus master had a bit more integrity. As it is, those comments really do confirm he doesn't have the morals that I thought/hoped. They totally contradict the statement he makes about being open and honest. So yeah, strong reaction but far from an overreaction. he says he knows right from wrong and is open and honest BUT he also says comments like this. The two are incongruous, with the latter making a mockery out of the former.

Funny that Gav because it seems very wrong to me to say some fans are comparing him to the Premiership winning team and so will never be happy. Now this is clearly and evidently not true. For starters you won't find those comparisons on here, a site that is both representative of a broad section of fans and quite critical of him. It's not a comment that has been made. Secondly its clearly not been a criteria for success in the past. Souness and Hughes were clearly not at the level of the premiership winning team and yet very popular. Therefore such a comparison can't be true. Thirdly on a similar note it's not a criticism leveled at any of the dollopers previously eg Ince or Coyle, so it would have had to have magically originsyed with him. Logically 20 years ish later seems an odd time to start. Fourthly as others have said a fair chunk of those fans who can remember 95 remember some more austere times prior to that too! Fifthly if that is what a fan expects - winning the league - that would suggest they are a bit of a glory hunter. I find it hard to believe many fans with said expectations would stick around for 25 years of not having their expectations met. In short it is utter bull. And whilst I get morality is a tricky and complex subject to tell such a blatant lie, a complete fabrication, a distortion of reality, and all for the motive of protecting himself. Well, that doesn't smack of football values, honesty and integrity whatsoever. In fact, quite the reverse

Look any manager who says we fans are entitled because we compare him and the team to the Premiership winning team and only that will make us happy has no integrity. End of story. It's an absolute blatant lie with no basis in reality. No one - Hughes or Souness, Kidd or Ince has ever been compared with those days. To do so is frankly disgusting, maligning the fan base, and really should be enough to remove the wool from people's eyes. It's a comment on the level of the odious one it is that sneaky and detached from reality. Well, TM it has changed my mind. I wanted you out as you weren't good enough as a manager before the interview. Now I want you out because you aren't fit as a person to manage this great club. You now fail on both character and competence. Just do one.

Sadly the excuses and banging on about the journey are his style Paul. That's the problem. That said I think you are right that he might be under pressure to do such a large amount of self preservation in one go.

I dunno WIR. Personally I think that's a smart move. I often want to put my hands over my eyes watching us of late...

Whereas it has been a few years since anyone held TM up as a positive example...

Tony has evidently been reading this board. Just to clarify for him I'm not unhappy with his performance as manager because you aren't winning the premiership. I'm unhappy because he can't assemble or organize a defence, can't get us above mid table and are regressing, have made some terrible blunders in the transfer market and because he plays players stupidly out of position - Buckley and Gally being two prime examples.

Thing is if fans are always criticising your team selections - that strongly suggests you are getting them wrong! You can fool some of the people all the time and all that. If your selections are constantly questioned there's probably a reason for it. Also speaking of contradictions - he says Venkys don't know much about football (ha! understatement of the year) but they do understand we are on a journey. Impressive how they can know nothing and take a long term view at the same time.

Just to double check - are we on a journey? Every one of his points is actually a backhanded criticism of himself or a lie! No defenders - his fault for assembling the squad. Having to change the attitude - his fault for not doing after 4.5 years! Owners being good eggs, and no pleasing fans - pure lies. Journey - absolute lies. Journeys have progress and we aren't. Journeys don't take as long as this without tangible improvements. Honestly if anyone didn't want him gone before this then they should now. Lies and excuses that only highlight his ineptness.

It doesn't help when you tank the Fiend character with regular losses. That hurts Alexa Fiend as well as Bray Fiend. Also having her already beat Asuka also takes away some of the mystery of can Asuka cope with this new threat. Even if we ignore the booking issues and rather like this storyline - boy it doesn't half leave a lot of dross on the rest of the roster storyline wise. Worryingly I think they are trying to build Lee! His quick win Vs Orton, putting him with Drew, I think they want him to be a star but they still manage to do it so, so badly. Yeah, they have regularly done it which is crazy as they need new stars, loads of the work has already been done in NXT and everyone can tell who the talented performers are. Honestly it shocks me how badly they manage the company with such a regular conveyor belt of talent. It should keep things fresh, exciting and with tons of storyline potential. Yeah it's not been handled well at all. You forgot to add putting them in a feud with another heel group too! Couldn't have been worse if they tried. That said the concept I think could work. Turn up, beat people up, disappear. Then when the "signed" wrestlers do finally get a match or two with Retribution have Retribution win those too. Not hard to build up a stable, have them.beat people up and win matches. Amazing that they don't do this Yeah absolute shambles. That said Goldberg isn't one for promos beyond growling and looking menacing. Agree. Have him total a ton of people with the spear and then it becomes a what if he hits the spear on Drew type situation. Everyone knows he shouldn't be able to hang with Drew but the what if remains. There are tons of other ways they could have built it up too. Drew becoming patronising/Goldberg taking offence when Drew helps him Vs Orton. Or a Rocky 6 sort of situation where people discuss is Drew/the claymore better than Goldberg/the spear in its prime. Or an accidental spear or claymore to the other in a match. Loads of ways this could be done, but again it's done badly. Yeah they really can't build stars, they really really struggle. I do wonder if it will cost them though as the old timers can't go on forever.

Not sure how there's so much debate about the guy! He is clearly very talented (ok that's imo) and clearly there are huge question marks as to whether he will fulfil that potential for a myriad of reasons (also an imo). Whilst some of those question marks are to do with him - such as his size and mental fortitude - there's also huge questions over how TM uses him. Personally I don't think the odd cameo and some right back appearances (this being beyond stupid imo) will accurately ascertain whether he fulfils that potential. He needs a regular run of games to assess that. Not sure he is quite ready for us, so logically this has to be a loan, to make a proper valued judgement. TM needs to get him one sharpish because the right back farce isn't helping anyone. I think he has too much potential to ignore, too many question marks to throw into our first team making a loan a no-brainer. Sooner we do that, the sooner this debate will be settled.