He also got them in that position for the first time in decades

Fair point Phili, I kind of get where you are coming from. He has performed better at Brentford but, without being in the set up, it is hard to say whether or not the goalkeeping training there just kept up his development or whether it accelerated it. For all we know, he could have been on course to deliver a similar season here. Although the Brentford GK coach did leave for Arsenal I believe, which probably tells its own story!

Yet. You are nailing your flag to the mast at the age of 24. He's a child in goalkeeping terms. He has another 13 years in him at least. This was his 3rd full competitive season, his 2nd at this level, and he kept the most clean sheets and narrowly missed out on promotion because, and I quote from the Brentford lot, "of a shocking few minutes". He had a great season with them and I couldn't help but think what we missed out on. David Raya is a cut above most goalkeepers at this level that's for sure, where he stands in the rankings of Premier League keepers is another matter, but that will come. We also weren't discussing whether he was a Premier League keeper, you called him a shit keeper. He clearly isn't a shit keeper because he is the best at our level.

What? How had he stagnated? It was his 2nd full time season for us really., his first in the Championship. He continues to make them mistakes but as you allude to yourself: he isn't a Premier League goalkeeper yet, which is the only reason he wouldn't have featured 10-15 years ago. I'm boggled by the thought he was stagnating at us. If you think only 1 full season at any given level resembles stagnation then you mustn't have any patience whatsoever. In any case it is irrelevant because now Brentford are benefiting from our 'poor coaching set up' that from academy level has developed a ball playing shot stopper that needs some work to develop into a senior. Goalkeepers play until they are 35, you think he stagnated at 23. I don't get it. David Raya is a modern goalkeeper and losing him for £3m is another of Tony's shockers, however which way we want to revise history.

Nah, nah. I said important stats. Why do I need to see his season before last stats? Is that because this seasons stats doesn't back you up? He won the golden glove because he kept the most clean sheets this season. That is the only stat that counts for a goalkeeper. Joe, you don't help yourself at all. You go on tirades about why we shouldn't sign players using an assemblage of graphs, stats and so on - which is fine, by the way - but then in another argument, when it suits, you use out of date stats and don't provide the actual meaningful ones. The fact remains that last season David Raya was an exceptional Championship standard goalkeeper. In fact, a post on the Brentford forum perfectly sums my thoughts up and to paraphrase: this is the glass ceiling for Championship keepers, and until we get promoted we won't get better.

Ok then. What do the important stats say about Raya?

We only use them when it suits. And even then we massage the way the graphs are displayed to further a point.

Have to wait until after the transfer window before making a prediction. This league throws surprises in each year, it’s difficult to predict at the best of times, let alone before you even know who will be playing where.

He’s confirmed he’s staying. ?

Playing Harrison Reed at right wing instead of centre midfield was one of the worst howlers I've seen TM make. I never got it. Reed did a good job at right wing but you can tell when he did play centrally it made him that extra bit better. The problem is when we went to sign him again who would you rather go play for? Scott Parker, a class central midfielder in his time, at a team with a squad that should have been automatic play offs in reality, or TM - the bloke who told you that you had a lot to learn from Smallwood. Reed must have been watching some games and thinking how shite must I be if I have to learn from him? That's no major disrespect to Smallwood, but in the times he played that season we got ran over. I think it was the Swansea game when Smallwood came on and they scored 2 goals literally driving through our midfield unopposed. It was embarrassing.

As you say K-Hod, it all depends on your interpretation of over the top. Over the top could mean a dramatic game day "oh he's not good enough!!" or, a few weeks after the last ball has been kicked, we could be faced with dozens of posts about how this professional footballer isn't even 'technically competent'. So, if you are to interpret over the top as dramatic then no, the criticism hasn't been to that level. However, if you define over the top as blatantly not true, then yes, the criticism JRC receives by an albeit extreme minority on here has been. Most of the time it seems like a slight for the sake of a slight. If we are having it right the criticism isn't even "technically" correct. I've watched him use both feet, you have seen videos of him bending balls into the top corner, he can play in several different positions and yet, on here, it isn't considered over the top to be spouting several times about how incompetent he is technically. It's bullshit, that is what it is. Yet, when challenged, it is a game of opinions. An opinion is like an arsehole, we all have one, and some of them stink, and that particular gripe with JRC stinks.

Goals were the same size in both standards of football last time I checked Hoochie. If that had Ederson in goal it wasn’t being saved. Terrific goal and the technique to bend it out and then in was fantastic. Alas, our resident expert considers him hesitant and nothing special technically though. Thank fuck he isn’t our scout because his ability to spot a player is about as non-existent as the hesitancy in JRCs game.

The LT have been selling our players for years now. Every year there's just as many stories ran about people 'interested' in our players as there is about players we are interested in. Shit paper.

That is Whelan. I'm talking about Wigan fans in general. If you can't remember the stick they gave us then you have a short memory, Sparks.

Why? They weren't sympathetic to us, and won't be if Venkys do put us into administration. There was a time when Rovers fans were leading the charge against dodgy owners and whilst clubs like Blackpool, Cov, Charlton and co were firmly on our side clubs like Wigan didn't give two shits. Now the shoe is on the other foot I am supposed to sympathetic? They booed Dack for busting his leg up too. You remember things like that. Make no mistake that if we ever get 12 pts deducted / administration you won't get any sympathy from our neighbours. They showed as much. It is for that reason that if or when it happens to them they won't be getting a tiny bit of my support either.

What is our wage bill each year? I'd support any cap on wages at the moment because it will level the playing field a bit for us. I don't know what the average wage bill for Championship clubs is but I suspect we will be way down the pecking order. Clubs like Derby and Boro have been overspending since time immemorial and it is about time there's some sort of suitable plan in place to stop the poorer Championship clubs being out muscled year after year. That said, we should be one of the richest with our owners, and if they financed the club in the same way others do I'd probably oppose the cap. Fickle game football.

That Ampadu is destined for big things. Think they signed him from Exeter for decent money. He'd definitely be a great loan move but whether or not he sees his place in a division higher is the issue. Paris, Jacques and this Christian lad are all brothers. Jacques Maghoma played for Blues but he's out on a free at the moment.

We aren't to mention that davul. Apparently it is just a conspiracy and it is Mowbray purposely not buying defenders. The only real outlay on a centre half under Venkys has been Scott Dann. I think we paid 400k for Shane Duffy too but that was during the scattergun approach to transfers. There is clearly no appetite from our funders in sanctioning the signings of defenders, and should they eventually do so it will signal a clear shift in policy.

The famous Portugeezers. Someone had a good few bevvies in the Algarve on the back of them signings.

Definitely. I have had my fair share of humblings when it comes to writing players off in the past. The only thing I am looking at is his history in comparison to what we already have. He's only played 30+ senior games, which although at top division level is not a lot. I don't know the standard of the Polish league but judging by their performances against other top division European clubs it isn't all that great. By contrast we have Wharton who has had more professional appearances, a few promotions under his belt and a tonne of credit given to him. He has to be knocking on the door of our squad otherwise what is the point in him being here? With any luck Maghouma is a better player than him, but I feel as though we should be saving our money signings for players we 100% know will make a difference. With all that said though I have not seen his scouting report and the team might be convinced Maghouma will make that difference.

Not exactly had a brilliant career has he? You have to wonder whether he will come in ahead of Scott Wharton. Playing for a club like Spurs doesn't automatically make you a good player.

Has he been and gone on there now? Any mention of Rovers? The fact Jim White had him on the show after the whole "Venkys, we are coming for you" is hypocritical bullshit and why I never watch the big drama made around him on deadline day. Sod Jim White and sod his show.

Fair play, and I will caveat my own post by saying I don't think you was one of the posters to round on Bburn (whatever his name was) last summer that eventually lead to him stop posting. Either way, just feck it, we barely have any inside knowledge of the club anymore and any tiny bit helps keep us that touch more excited than what the copy and paste jobs the LT gives us nowadays ? I need a bit of hope in these summer months.

His posts are a hell of a lot more interesting than watching you pick apart every single one of Chaddy's posts on practically every single thread. Whether it rubs you up the wrong way or not is irrelevant. That's not 'eating out of his hand' at all.

Don't get the beef with Mani, so what if he claims to know people, any little bits of information on here are very welcome in my opinion. We don't get anywhere near the level of national coverage some fans of other clubs do, so if there are any people out there that know a bit, or a lot, and can post on here then do so. It happened with Bburn something or other last year too. He was accurate and clearly had an inside line - one or two rumours didn't come true and a few posters rounded on him and now he doesn't post. Disappointing. If you have beef with the way a guy posts, or the innuendos, then just skip past it. The joys of the scroll bar!