No I stand by that he is average (relative to better players of course) on the ball and struggles to control a game. But he is still a very good player and excellent physically and at reading the play to win the ball back. He would also be missed in a side if he was missing. It isn't based on stats either. I just feel like being unable to control a game compares unfavourably to players who play the same position at the top level and would mean in the very few elite teams he wouldnt necessarily be a starter. But of course he can do some things extremely well and would get in the vast, vast majority of teams.

Its just the side of the game that I think that prevents him from being right up there with anyone in the world, his use of the ball. Seen it with England and West Ham including the other night. Even the likes of Makelele, Keane, Rodri etc were much better on the ball. I still think he is a very good player. I don't think he is good at breaking up play, he is excellent at it. There is nothing wrong with being a water carrier and indeed I was just speculating as to which top club he would fit into and how would be best to use him. I don't think he would get into the City side for example. If say he went to Real Madrid, they have players like Modric and Kroos who usually play ahead of a sitter. Would he be better sat behind where I do think deeper, it allows him to use his excellent ability to snuff out danger and read the game? Or would his limitations on the ball (that is relative, he is not terrible on it, just not really the type to control a game) cause issues moving the ball on, receiving it on the half turn? On the flip side, have a Modric sitting and have him as a box to box midfielder, runs all day but would he do enough going forward, and would it somewhat waste his defensive ability to read danger? The value aspect is a different argument, if I was a big club I would be wary purely based on his expected cost. He would certainly add something to the vast majority of teams.

I didn't realise that defensive/deeper lyong midfielders couldn't dictate games. In fact they are often are the ones that do, sitting back setting the tempo. Pirlo, Busquets, Alonso, Xavi, Rodri, Keane, Tugay, Scholes later in his career, the list goes on. The games played at their pace. Rice is a different type of player and very good at what he does, point being, yesterday he struggled to get a grip and not against elite opponents, Amrabat ran the show. Can Rice play for a bigger team? Of course, but I think he falls short of the very best because he is decent on the ball, but he is not going to dictate a game. At the top level with England against the best teams, he is effective at stemming the tide but he won't run the show and we have come up short because we never have those players. Even Bellingham (a much more rounded player) is more attacking. The perfect player to accompany the pair would be a Scholes. His next move is an interesting one. His price tag is likely to be extortionate. I don't think he would get a move to a team like City, Barca or Real Madrid because he is not quite at the same level, if he did move there, I think he would need to just be a water carrier for their better players and maybe even play slightly further up the pitch. Liverpool would suit based on a Klopp ideal team but I doubt they could afford him. Arsenal maybe, but I think they lack a quality player to dictate the game, unless you got him doing Jorginho's running. Or maybe a Bayern although the league is slightly less quality, its just on that very top stage say in a Champions League knockout game, is he quite there?

Could Roy Keane not dictate games?

I get why from a tradition point of view, but I do think you would dilute the quality by only having Champions in. For example, next season, you would be taking out Real and Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Man United, Newcastle, both Milan clubs etc.

My point was that Rice isn't technically good enough to dictate games. He doesn't for club or country and he isn't one of the very best. Still a very good player but not up there with the Rodri's of this world.

We won promotion by 9 points and 20 higher goal difference to be fair, I am not sure that it was as decisive as it seemed.

If I recall correctly, Italy totally dominated after the early goal and we barely had a kick. I certainly don't think that Rice "bossed the midfield." Very true if you are looking for value. Amrabat was great in the World Cup and is better on the ball than Rice, and likely to be much cheaper. Of course Rice is an overall more attractive package, but not sure he could dictate in the same way. Bonaventura was also superb further forward and Fiorentina totally dominated without having much in attack. I don't ever see Rice becoming a player that can dictate the player, his strengths lie elsewhere. He can definitely play further up, but the question comes from the inevitable massive price tag. I doubt that Liverpool could afford him but if they want to revert to high intensity, he would fit that more than City where he couldn't do what Rodri does and would spend all season next to Phillips sat on his arse. @Hasta got it right with his summary. I also felt that Fiorentina dominated, it was a bit of a smash and grab with Fiorentina not creating enough. Rice underwhelmed and lost the ball a few times, for me the stand out light is Paqueta who set up the goal, brilliant technician.

Is Rice is a dribbler? I meant in terms of controlling possession, last night was a perfect example, he struggled in that regard. He is average in terms of passing and thats what I think he would struggle with if he went to a really big team. Don't get me wrong, he is a very good player. Very good at winning the ball back, his defensive awareness, his energy. On the ball, average. I think his strengths lie as a defensive midfielder, same point to @chaddyrovers obviously all of those midfielders are holding midfielders, I am not convinced that he would thrive as a box to box midfielder.

He definitely isnt better in possession than Rodri! Rodri is excellent on the ball.

He is a defensive player, he has a good engine and reads the game really well out of possession. Can't dictate a game, isn't anything special in possession and as a box to box he doesn't offer much going forward, he seldom scores for a start. If I was a big club I would be wary because he will likely cost above market value due to being English. He isn't quite up to the level of the likes of Rodri, Casemiro and Guimares. Still a very good player all the same.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/birmingham-jude-bellingham-realmadrid-transfer-30177174 Says £11m here.

Is Declan Rice really a world class holding midfielder? Very good player no doubt, and quite well rounded, but not sure he is good enough on the ball or able to control games at the top level.

Probably unlikely to find that resolution in the season ticket thread.

Keep it coming, no matter how true it is, any crumbs to talk about. Hence the pages about Dykes maybe signing when we dont have any money anyway. The boring 3 months of the off season!

I have noticed in the comments underneath that those defending the prices online tend to be the youngest fans. Obviously they dont have to pay full price to begin with, theyve only known us really outside the Premier League and under Venkys anyway and they dont have the other committments that who they perceive to be entitled, fickle people do.

Then Lazio the next season with Nesta, Stam, Crespo etc.

Rochina was certainly not the best player in recent times 😂

Hardly a marquee tie.

They should appoint Kevin Keegan if they need attacking football and winning/success is down that list of priorities.

I do like the idea of a home game before the season starts, so fair play. That being said, even allowing for them finishing in the top half of Serie A, they likely will be disappointed by the attendance I suspect if (as per the fans forum) they are anointing it as a "marquee" friendly. Id be surprised if the gate topped 5k.

Do you think he could achieve something? I don't but I would like to see teams at our level appoint poor managers so I am all for that.

What changes?

You was pretty strong in thinking that prices were fair until recently.

The concern is more that if he becomes a really important member of the side, that if history repeats itself, he may then miss gametime that we dont want him to miss. Plymouth fans are pretty universal in questioning his injury record. That doesn't seem to come from bitterness as otherwise they have been incredibly positive about his ability, they seem to rate him much higher as an all round striker than Hardie who scored more goals. You look at the 38 league appearances and think, what are they talking about, but it seems that he only finished 3 or 4 games that he started, he had 19 sub appearances and he only played 44% of league minutes available. Lets hope that isnt the case here as with no money, I suspect that there will be a big onus on him considering the alternative is Gallagher who is very average and himself quite prone to injury.