[Archived] Poll - Falling Attendances.

[promoted2001]

Lack of success?????????

I know some bigger clubs than Rovers who would die to have won what we have in the last 10 years!

340910[/snapback]

I mean in terms of winning the premiership, in my area Rovers were reasonably well supported (this is Maidenhead Berkshire) by the glory hunters who now support chelsea. I feel attendances haven't been the same for a long time. Although I personally feel the main reason has been lack of entertainment.

[Manchester Blue]

If there's too much footy on TV, then why are there still waiting lists for tickets at clubs like ManU, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool etc?

In my opinion, crowds flock to watch these clubs because they are succesful and entertaining, something which the Rovers have not been over the last 2 seasons.

People will not get out of the armchair to watch mediocrity whether it costs £5 or £25.

Anyone remember the old 3rd Division in the early 70's? Crowds of 5000 at Ewood when they were struggling. Gordon Lee's champions of 74-75 attracted crowds of 15 - 20,000 on a regular basis.

Even in the championship (Division 1) a few years ago, Rovers average gate was 24,000.

Give people excitement and they will pay to watch.

340893[/snapback]

Actually the waiting lists are coming down rapidly at United and there are real worries they won't sell out when the ground capacity increases to 75,000. The biggest reason why they do sell out is supply & demand. If a lot of united fans could miss a few they would but they can't pick and choose matches like other fans can.

There are a lot more problems with football at present than the entertainment factor.

[trawdenblue]

Actually the waiting lists are coming down rapidly at United and there are real worries they won't sell out when the ground capacity increases to 75,000.  The biggest reason why they do sell out is supply & demand.  If a lot of united fans could miss a few they would but they can't pick and choose matches like other fans can.

There are a lot more problems with football at present than the entertainment factor.

340934[/snapback]

You're right Manchester Blue, they are all contributing factors. However, in my opinion, the main reason for the decline in Rovers' attendances over the last two years have been the lack of entertainment/excitement/anticipation/crowd pleasers, etc;

[snatchymcsnatch]

I think the bottom line is that 17,000 isn't a bad crowd for Blackburn. At the end of the day if uncle Jack hadn't have come along and someone said 17000 went to watch blackburn on Saturday you wouldn't have been disappointed.

*Aside* from the extra revenue that we desperately need to compete (which is a big aside), for me, it matters not a jot what the attendance is - the atmosphere on Saturday was top notch - when the Rovers end finds it's voice there's nothing quite like it for me. I'd rather have 17,000 fans singing than that shower at St James Park where there were 52,620 voices and they bearly got above a whisper for the whole game.

The lesson learned here, in my humble opinion, is that if Rovers are serving up that kind of fayre week in, week out, the fans will come. OK we won't fill the ground every week but gradually people will come. On the other side of the hoardings, us lot have a duty to make darn sure that when the whistle goes at five o'clock your vocal chords hurt. Andy Todd said the fans were great on Saturday - we need to keep that sort of support up for the lads - for the first time in a good few seasons I feel like we're a club again and I hope it continues.

[MCMC1875]

Can you add 'All of the above'?

[Hypo-Luxa]

Ok, now I know that we've lamented the poor attendance figures almost to death, but is this figure from Saturday's game correct? Can it be that our home opener only attracted 16,593? And excluding the Fulham supporters that leaves us with even less! I just can't fathom it. I know we're a side in a smaller city/town, but we DO have fans outside of the city and Lancashire as well. Not to get too down on us, but if we cannot get more than 16,000 arses in Ewood seats for our home opener of a season, then we're in trouble. All I can say is if Saturday's perfomance doesn't coax another 10,000 fans to Ewood for Newcastle, then we'll need to start buying players from China to gain that market of fans in order to make up for the poor attendance.

So what is the deal? Are people just not that enthused about travelling a few hours to see a match or is our Marketing team non-existant? Do we have to adopt a system of giving out promotional items at games to get the kiddies in for a free Tugay bobblehead? Or should we promote a 50 pence beer day to attract the lushes? I mean seriously. We have disenchanted fans who declined to buy a season ticket and we have ticket prices going up. But with the increase of the salary and the value of Premiership quality players, we have to expect that inevitable factor. As for the disenchanted fans, well there's no arguing a man and how he spends his own sizable chunk of money.

But the home opener at least!!

[LeChuck]

To borrow a quote from another topic:

3) However, the winner in this one will be scuffed in from a Pedersen-inswnging corner as Spuds go short handed in the 6 yard box having put two men marking Tugay who was hanging around the Nuttall Street touch line just to confuse them.

1-0 Rovers.

340975[/snapback]

This for me is the main reason. This is the only way I can ever see us winning games...plenty of midfield battles and hopefully scrap a goal. We're not alone in that, which is one of the reasons why attendences everywhere are dropping, but we suffer more because we have less fans.

[Hypo-Luxa]

ugh sorry...please delete or merge or whatever...sorry mods

[philipl]

Thanks for quoting me Greggy- the cynicism was meant as humour my friend.

I'll add that after all the optimism building pre-season, the West Ham surrender and die second half really came as a "hammer" blow to every Rovers fan and probably an awful lot just chucked it in a week last Saturday evening.

Set against that, the Rovers footballing response couldn't have been more perfect (short of a Roy of the Rovers cricket score).

An entertaining game.

A WIN (yes A HOME WIN- wot's one of those at Ewood grandpa?)

Two of the greatest goals ever seen at Ewood which certainly has this Rovers exile kicking himself black and blue that he wasn't there to see them.

After all the odium directed towards the Rovers it was a pleasure to hear this on the BBC World Service this morning:

"Chelsea's winner against Arsenal may prove invaluable but it was a scruffy affair hardly rating on Blackburn's Golden Goal scale"

More of the same please Rovers and the guarranteed 20,000 gates will be back.

[thenodrog]

More of the same please Rovers and the guarranteed 20,000 gates will be back.

340996[/snapback]

As I've said before Philip, 20,000 would indeed be an improvement but it is still nowhere near enough supporters to buy tickets / merchandise etc in enough quantities to fund regular Prem football. Any club wishing to thrive in the Prem needs 35-40000.

Jack Walker allegedly had a sign over his desk with "Think Big" written on it. We should honour his memory by doing so.

[greggyk]

Thanks for quoting me Greggy- the cynicism was meant as humour my friend.

340996[/snapback]

thats ok bud

Edited August 22, 2005 by greggyk

[Manchester Blue]

Yeah but when he said think big I don't think Lancashire United would have been part of those thoughts. You would hardly be honouring his memory by killing the club he loved now would you.

[thenodrog]

I did consider that but whats the option again......... a swift metamorphis or a lingering certain death?

[Scotty]

I did consider that but whats the option again......... a swift metamorphis or a lingering certain death?

341002[/snapback]

But dropping down the divisions (if that is what is to happen to us) doesn't mean certain death. It just means less success. Clubs like Burnley, Preston and Blackpool still seem to be alive.

[MCMC1875]

Olympic still alive and kicking.

Keep the faith.

[Drummer Boy]

Couple of thoughts based on personal experience:

My job demands are such that if a game is not on a Saturday afternoon/Sunday, it is unlikely I can go. Given the propensity for fixtures to be switched around by Sky, England, various other competitions why should I pay for a ticket that I am unlikely to make full use of?

If the club had a saturday or weekend ticket scheme available, that would be a big help to people like me who are not prepared to fork out a few hundred quid only to be treated to the prospect of matches being rearranged at short notice - it only take two matches and the economic advantage of a season ticket is gone.

Secondly, and far more pertinent, let me outline a typical day at the Rovers for me - a typical bloke with three children:

Travel to Ewood:

By car - cost of petrol and parking = c.£10.00

By train - 4 tickets = c.£12

Get there in good time, children want a bite or pop:

Pop/pint/dog burger/pie for four = c.£16 (no prawn sandwiches in the DB household!)

Go into the ground:

Tickets, typically = c.£60 (depends on opponent etc.)

Programme x 2 = £4

Half-time:

Coke each = £10

Full-time - "please can we have a look in the club shop, promise we won't ask for anything"

Irresistible bargain = c.£25

I accept that some of this is not necessary, but it is a day out for the family, the club wants as much of my money as it can extract whilst I am there (no problem, there, it is a business after all)

and everybody wants to enjoy themselves.

The quality of footie on display is only part of the deal - it is about the togetherness, the affiliation and the bond of a common desire to see Rovers win. Admittedly, if the boys play well all this is easier come by.

So, all in all, a typical match day can be anything between £100 & £125 - now there are people earn more than me and people who earn less, but how many of us can find, assuming two matches a month, £250 disposable income on top of the demands of life in this day and age?

At the same time, some over-privileged, immature, questionably behaved young man/boy/thug is receiving more a week than some members on this MB receive in a year for doing a job he claims to love - yet he can appear either indifferent, unprepared, not in the mood or more concerned with his next "golden hello" than helping the club we all love to win the match in question.

I know I might seem to be totally "off message" here, but take a reality check guys - premiership football has lost touch with it's fanbase economically - it costs too much, the players don't care because they can't relate to the fans from the comfort of their air-conditioned supercar and the embrace of the vacuum-assisted ornament hanging off their arms.

Given the above, we end up having to pick and choose our games as a matter of economics not whether it is raining or the team are playing well or are in a position to achieve something. - the recent FA Cup semi-final was a great example, the first time for forty years we get that far and it costs too much, the TV make it at the worst possible time of day and the economics demand it be played at Cardiff. As a result, how many went? That's right, the average Blackburn family exercised their choice to not have the p**s taken out of them by the assorted vultures and parasites that see the game as a cash generation machine for the few by exloitation of the committed. For those that did - I hope they enjoyed it, but would ask whether they got value for money or if they would have preferred different arrangements.

As for the Fulham game, in this context, how many are saving their money for a more atractive fixture?

Therefore, the whole event costs too much, we can't relate to the players and it is over-exposed and overmanaged by the TV channel(s). Apart from that, the season ticket is good value!!

Oh, and by the way, I haven't included the damage inflicted by Mrs DB on her shopping trip whilst there are no kids around - truly awesome!!!

[RevidgeBlue]

Quote thenodrog:

"Jack Walker allegedly had a sign over his desk with "Think Big" written on it. We should honour his memory by doing so."

Agreed tnr, unfortunately the trustees don't seem to be falling over themselves to bring Michael Owen to Ewood Park!

One of the main reasons for the decline in attendances isn't listed - "changing demographic makeup of the town"

Lack of crowdpleasers is undoubtedly a factor, who wants to watch Dickov when you've been watching Duff?

Not sure lack of success should be a reason though, if we had somehow managed to sneak into the top flight pre Jack we'd have had no more, in fact far less, chance of success than we have now.

It seems people are starting to be slightly more picky with their fixtures which if you look back over the years is how attendances have been in the past 11-12,000 for low profile fixtures and 35,000 for Man Ure or Liverpool. It's only relatively recently that the home support has remained nearly identical throughout the season.

Edited August 22, 2005 by RevidgeBlue

[colin]

  Any club wishing to thrive in the Prem needs 35-40000. 

340999[/snapback]

Not sure where you've got that from, but if you want to back it up with some economics & logic & predict the failings of this lot...

Bolton Wanderers 0-1 Everton 25,608

Blackburn Rovers 2-1 Fulham 16,953

Charlton Athletic 1-0 Wigan Athletic 23,453

Tottenham Hotspur 2-0 Middlesbrough 35,844

West Bromwich Albion 2-0 Portsmouth 24,404

Birmingham City 1-2 Manchester City 26,366

[thenodrog]

Anyone remember the old 3rd Division in the early 70's? Crowds of 5000 at Ewood when they were struggling. Gordon Lee's champions of 74-75 attracted crowds of 15 - 20,000 on a regular basis.

Even in the championship (Division 1) a few years ago, Rovers average gate was 24,000.

340893[/snapback]

Sorry to correct you TB but these are the correct figures .................

Nationwide League Division One 2000-2001

Club Average vs '00 Highest

1 Birmingham City 21.283 - 2,8% 29.150

2 Blackburn Rovers 20.740 7,7% 29.426

3 Nottingham Forest 20.615 19,8% 28.372

4 Sheffield Wednesday 19.268 -22,5% 38.433

5 Wolverhampton Wanderers 19.258 -10,3% 26.627

6 West Bromwich Albion 17.655 21,1% 22.301

7 Sheffield United 17.211 25,6% 25.673

8 Crystal Palace 17.061 8,9% 21.133

9 Norwich City 16.525 6,3% 21.241

10 Burnley 16.442 27,1% 21.406

11 Bolton Wanderers 16.106 12,0% 24.249

12 Fulham 14.985 14,6% 19.373

13 Preston North End 14.530 13,3% 17.355

14 Barnsley 14.465 - 6,1% 19.989

15 Watford 13.941 -24,8% 18.333

16 Portsmouth 13.533 - 2,7% 19.013

17 Huddersfield Town 12.808 - 8,7% 19.290

18 Queens Park Rangers 12.013 - 4,6% 17.608

19 Gillingham 9.293 31,1% 10.518

20 Tranmere Rovers 9.049 24,4% 12.362

21 Wimbledon 7.897 -54,0% 14.071

22 Stockport County 7.031 - 5,1% 9.782

23 Crewe Alexandra 6.742 7,9% 9.415

24 Grimsby Town 5.646 - 8,3% 8.706

Total 14.337 1,3% 38.433

Great crowds for us without doubt but note that BW came up with us and note their crowd figures now! Credit to Big Sam and Gartside eh?

As for Gordon Lee's years you've overegged the pudding again but all the same this is good BRFC info...........click here (then click on Blackburn Rovers)

http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/england.htm

Even more interesting if not depressingly sad is the damage done to clubs like BRFC by the abolition of the maximum wage in 1961. I know that we upset a lot of supporters by spewing the Cup final chance in 1960 but the damage done by George Eastham and the PFA is there for all to see.

Edited August 22, 2005 by thenodrog

[Shaddy]

Agreed tnr, unfortunately the trustees don't seem to be falling over themselves to bring Michael Owen to Ewood Park!

341024[/snapback]

[philipl]

Interesting to see that whilst 43% have voted inadequate entertainment as the prime reason for the decline yet nobody has picked up on my suggestion that Rovers addressed that issue (and how!) on Saturday and many stay aways will be desperately wishing they were among the 16,953....

[Paul]

Quote thenodrog:

Agreed tnr, unfortunately the trustees don't seem to be falling over themselves to bring Michael Owen to Ewood Park!

341024[/snapback]

If we want the crowds back this is the sort of move the board/trustees may have to consider. I can't see what else might excite the local support.

Philip - I know the point you are making but Saturday wasn't that good. Rovers played as they should but where some way off brilliant. Two superb goals, Neil's effort off the bar and Friedel's save don't make up for two seasons of unrelieved dross. A season of this type of performance and things may get better otherwise I suspect this may just have been the result of Hughes b*llocking for the team.

[MCMC1875]

It was refreshing to see how many stay aways / lapsed fans were at Turf Moor for FAC5 this year, despite stringent ticketing arrangements / availability. All is not yet lost.

[MCMC1875]

Have to say there's been a steady queue of people at the TO all day.

340905[/snapback]

Was it for refunds?

[philipl]

If we want the crowds back this is the sort of move the board/trustees may have to consider. I can't see what else might excite the local support.

Philip - I know the point you are making but Saturday wasn't that good. Rovers played as they should but where some way off brilliant. Two superb goals, Neil's effort off the bar and Friedel's save don't make up for two seasons of unrelieved dross. A season of this type of performance and things may get better otherwise I suspect this may just have been the result of Hughes b*llocking for the team.

341053[/snapback]

The problem with eye-catching signings who attract that sort of following is that their worth to the club is priced into the transfer fee and wages and some on top!

Assuming the Trustees are business people and there is some form of words about Rovers washing their face in the long run in Jack's Will, I cannot see the Trustees releasing any funds for transfers after Saturday's attendance.

I know Rovers weren't brilliant on Saturday but you will still be remembering those goals at the end of the season/ five years/ ten years/ twenty years from now.

That has to be a big part of being a supporter. The football has not been good for a couple of years from Rovers and frankly the goals have been fairly mediocre since Dunn/Duff left.

As following any football team (well most of them) is the triumoh of hope over experience, its nice to experience something so special from the lads in blue and white to keep the faith that going to Ewood Park can be a fantastic memorable experience.

A storming performance against Spurs is what's needed now- I'd even trade an early goal against to generate the sort of spirit we showed against Chelsea last season and avoiding a West Ham-style capitulation at Villa.

Then we should see the gates increasing.

Edited August 23, 2005 by philipl