[Archived] Poll - Falling Attendances.

[roversmum]

For all those who are suggesting market research - a clip from John Williams' column in yesterday's programme reads:

It is a little disappointing to report that our season ticket sales are down on last season, although we have to acknowledge that our home results over the past few years have not been great.

We also have to recognise that many factors - lifestyle changes, extensive television coverage, varying kick-off times - have contrived to make the selling of season tickets a much tougher proposition than ever before.

Premier League football is not cheap either, although we have made every effort to be as competitive as possible on pricing.  We believe our offer to be the best-value deal in the Premiership with effectively seven games for free and adult prices starting from £250.

We have engaged in an extensive tele-research and marketing campaign which is producing some very positive feedback and are still receiving season ticket renewals and new orders on a daily basis

The gap between last year and this year is closing all the time

He goes on to say how important a healthy support base is.

He is also prepared to answer, in the programme, questions put to him, either by email (ltalbot@rover-mail.co.uk) or by post to him at Ewood.

[thenodrog]

The country is sick and tired of an over-hyped, over-exposed sport played by grossly overpaid average players.

You've hit the nail right on the head there.

340725[/snapback]

I feel this malaise is happening right across the country. But due to the size of our town and the nature of the population it hits us hardest.

I've commented before on here and more than once that the present decline reminds me so much of the 60's decline. That was a catastrophic situation for Lancashire football as Rovers, PNE, Burnley, BW and Blackpool were all in the old 1st Div (Prem) when the maximium wage was abolished in 1963 and within 4 years they had all been relegated to the lower divs as football entered the 'BIG City' era. Suddenly footballers who had earned about £25 per week (approx twice the av working mans wage) were catapulted into the £100+ per week bracket.

The situation worked totally against small clubs, not only did people see the earnings as obscene but the resultant loss of star players took away all hope of any return to success. In short we simply could not compete and fans could no longer dream.

Just as now the loss of the likes of Shearer, Dunn, Duff and the Ferguson fiasco have reminded fans of our true status in English football, and the rise of the BIG 3 have taken away all hope of success. Just like the rest of the prem we are now merely cannon fodder for the big guns. Once again we cannot even dream of winning the Prem. The press and media big club bias fans the flames to the extent that we are pilloried for daring to try and compete with the Big 3 darlings.

Nothing that was tried in the 60's could alter the situation which is precisely why John Williams can find no solution now. In fact its worse now, the amount of actual BRFC fans in the town has declined for obvious reasons and there is Sky Sports TV everywhere with £40 per month to be found to pay for the privelege.

If we rate fans on a 1-10 basis with a '1' only going to Ewood once a year to watch Man U and with a '10' being fans who go home and away and all pre season friendlies we simply do not have enough of the over 5's. The under 5's are the ones who are now dropping away and they will not be be back until glory is achieved. Even then (if that were to happen which it aint) the malaise will simply return when we have a bad run and we will be back to square 1.

Last week I spent about £150 going to West Ham, maybe I should have stayed at home and got one of those tickets as waggy suggested. Travelling fans not only spend huge amounts on the trips but also line the coffers of our rivals. With every away game on the tele it would be better for BRFC if we stayed at home and watched in the Blues bar or one of the suites over a prawn sarnie. But imo that would simply present a fools gold situation.

Everybody on here knows my solution to this and everybody also knows at the bottom of their hearts that it is the only option BUT quite understandably nobody wants it to happen. I dont either really BUT some sort of coming together is the only long term answer. Football is a business and if football was invented today then NO WAY would 5 pro clubs be formed from an area with a combined population of approx 700,000! We all realise that ultimately we will find our true and 'rightful place' in English football. Next time we get it totally wrong and get relegated will be the last time that we see top level football in this town.

Anybody who disagrees Right Oh, fine but ffs try and come up with something else. At best we could hope on hope that we can get back to 20000+ gates but that in reality would only be treading water. And treading water is no good we need to be moving forward all the time. Until then this apathy / discontent / disenchantment / will not go away, and just like a cancer it will only spread.

Edited August 21, 2005 by thenodrog

[RevidgeBlue]

Gordon, you make some very valid points as always but think you're well wide of the mark by continually beating the "Lancashire United" drum.

If hypothetically BRFC were unable to draw more widely across the white indigenous population of the North in future, why on earth would Lancasshire United be able to?

It's one and the same thing, asking people to support a different team to the one they're used to!

Besides does anyone actually know anyone who would pay to watch a combined "Lancashire United" I certainly wouldn't, being an interested armchair observer would be as close as I'd get. And that would be extremely doubtful.

[Hasta]

Agree with most there Drog apart from your solution. I can accept that we are a small town team in the big league. However I also know that since we lost jack we are punching above our position. There will come a time, and it's sooner than people care to admit, when we settle on our level which is unfortunately below this one. The geographical location means the attendances aren't there to sustain Premiership football and won't be unless we become successful.

Like it or not I believe we will follow the lead of Sheff Weds, Forest, Derby etc... in falling from the top flight and then hoping rather than expecting a return. Even if we did return it would be brief. However I would rather find our level and compete with the dream at the back of my mind than lose Rovers in any form of merger. If that happened I'd lose my intense interest in football.

People may call me pessimistic etc... and I really hope I'm wrong and we are a top flight side for years, nay decades to come. Unfortunately 23,000 gates won't ultimately help us, let alone 16,900.

To try a more cheery tone, I know quite a few people (about 7 actually) who've got tickets for Weds nights game but didn't bother on Saturday citing the cost of two games in a week as the reason. With a larger following from the cockney glory-boys we may be able to brush this attendance under the carpet as a one off (but I'm not holding my breath!)

One other thing in our favour is that we have 4 big clubs within 40 miles of Ewood that when doing well can fill the Darwen End adding much needed coffers. Now and again even Notlob can bring a few aswell.

[greggyk]

Your way off Hasta- I've spoken to a few rovers fans who agree with you saying that we will only last in the premierleague for a few years max, but i totally disagree.

As long as the huge money from sky is still there in the premierleague and the little in comparison given to the coca-cola leagues, there will always be 3 poor teams with little money to spend to take up all 3 relegation places.This is even if their attendances are way higher than ours, because the sky money covers this

The only way for this too change would be for the PL to go down to 14/16 or 18 teams.

And as long as we have assets which can be sold for big money, ie Pedersen, then Rovers will be around in the top flight for a few years to come. I mean, 'small' teams like Coventry and Southampton had been in the top flight for years

Edited August 21, 2005 by greggyk

[Hasta]

Believe me I hope I am way off Greggy!

However the likes of Coventry and Southampton stopped in the top flight when the gap between the rich and the poor, the wages between the top class and the average, were not as far apart as they are now.

Every season 1 or 2 of the promoted clubs fall but not always all 3. One slip now and it's curtains. Had GS not gone to Newcastle it's debatable whether or not the sky money would have saved us then. Had we got, say, Dick Advocat as manager it's questionable whether we'd have been able to bully our way to safety.

Your right in the fact that we have to produce youth or buy inexperience, blood them well and sell for a profit. If MGP scores 5 or 6 more like yesterday before Christmas and,say, Liverpool come calling with £7 mill, like it or not the board will probably sell. Again a risky gameplan.

[ Thinking about this tho, if we could sell Emerton to Newcastle for 2.5mill that would subsidise our gates for a season. Hmmmm]

Ye fellow Rovers minions cannot see what Hasta has forseen.

Edited August 21, 2005 by Hasta

[RevidgeBlue]

As long as the Premiership maintains a collective stance as at present then there's no partivcular reason why Rovers top flight tenure should be shortlived. All established sides should have a huge advantage over the 3 promoted clubs every year.

If Clubs ever have to negotiate TV rights individually, that's when we'll really start to struggle.

[mhead]

Having read the thread from the start and then realising it started in early 2004!

Leaving aside MY support for Lancashire United and my 10 point plan of 2004, we score 2 absolute World-class goals,there's a match against sexy Spurs this week and there is a queue after the match so ONLY 2 bleeding windows open.

If we have to have a ground out of town we need to sell tickets how and when people are ready to pay...have we looked at the methods employed by Ipswich and Charlton yet??

If we are a small-town Club we have to be smart....as a minimum.

[Paul]

Can't agree with this.

It's a bit naive to assume that gate money is directly related to transfer kitty, in fact since TV brass came in (before Sky) attendance has meant less and media exposure has been more important financially. 

340674[/snapback]

MC - I was thinking of annual running costs and in particular wages as opposed to transfer fees.

[Paul]

The country is sick and tired of an over-hyped, over-exposed sport played by grossly overpaid average players.

340714[/snapback]

Exactly. We have the same old rubbish shoved down our throats from every possible media source. Probably 90% of press speculation is nothing more than lies printed or broadcast in an attempt to sell product.

The players talk complete crap, kiss the badge, "always wanted to die for XXX FC", "YYYYY is a great manager and is the reason I came to this club." "We owe it to the fans to win this one." "At the end of the day it's down to us, the players, we haven't performed this year and we need to put it right." I could write all the back pages in a couple of hours each night, It's alll utterly ubelievable and they expect intelligent people to swallow this garbage. I no longer believe anything I get from the media, my intelligence has been insulted one too many times......and it seems like thousands of others feel the same way.

We have an England international openly admitting he didn't prepare for a game which 4500 fans had travelled to Denmark to watch. Last week Hughes reckoned we had 4-5 who weren't up to the mark. It beggars belief and clearly demonstrates why the supporters are turning away from football.

[Scotty]

Everybody on here knows my solution to this and everybody also knows at the bottom of their hearts that it is the only option 

340740[/snapback]

Your arrogance knows no bounds.

No-one would support Lancashire United. No-one. The supporters of Blackburn, Burnley, Preston, Bolton, or whoever else you've got in mind would be more likely to either just stop supporting football altogether or would follow a smaller, local team. Or perhaps a group of fans would start up a new Blackburn Rovers - much like the fans of Wimbledon and Man U have done recently.

[thenodrog]

As long as the Premiership maintains a collective stance as at present then there's no partivcular reason why Rovers top flight tenure should be shortlived. All established sides should have a huge advantage over the 3 promoted clubs every year.

340758[/snapback]

Well apparently Rev West Ham have a mega bucks sugar daddy who has promised up to 30million available to be spent in the January transfer window.

[Kennysuperbuyer]

Its probably not so much the Rovers but more like the town. It really is a ###### hole when once over it was probably the best of the Lancashire towns. Blackburn council has to take the blame for their shortsighteness over many many years. Still the have recently won The Council of the Year!

I dont know who judged that - It must have been David Blunkett?

[thenodrog]

Your arrogance knows no bounds. 

340767[/snapback]

You just can't help youself can you?

btw when the inevitable happens dont bother setting up another club cos Blackburn Olympic are still in existence in Div 3 of the Blackburn combination and I'm sure would be glad of your support cos all the descendents of their loyal fans watch BRFC don't they?

[stuwilky]

Well apparently Rev West Ham have a mega bucks sugar daddy who has promised up to 30million available to be spent in the January transfer window. 

340768[/snapback]

Is this the Iranian blokey who has been "on the verge" of making a takeover bid for about 3 years and even last week said he wouldnt be doing anything until next summer at the earliest?

[roverich]

And as long as we have assets which can be sold for big money, ie Pedersen, then Rovers will be around in the top flight for a few years to come. I mean, 'small' teams like Coventry and Southampton had been in the top flight for years

340755[/snapback]

And you think selling our best players is the way forward? What are you, another Souness? Southampton have a much larger fan base because it is a much larger city, as is Coventry. You are only helping the point you are arguing against - you need a large fan base to survive at this level and that only comes from a large city.

I agree with you however that by and by we are far better off financially than any three of the promoted teams and have no excuse for not cutting it above them, but you're stabbing yourself in the foot with that last point. Besides, to survive above the three promoted teams, we need to win all those games. Need I remind you we got thrashed by West Ham?!

[waggy]

we can blame who you want,but we the 16,900 hold the key we must encourage the non-attendees,i actually ended up fighting with a few late saturday night. not the best way to get your point over but somethink needs to be done quickly.

i have been ridiculed for this before,but what about the non-attendees on this board,the far flung.those who cannot attend due to distance home and abroad.we as a message board could sponser say 5 season tickets,given to the lesss privliged,dare i say the asian quarter

[stuwilky]

I agree with you however that by and by we are far better off financially than any three of the promoted teams and have no excuse for not cutting it above them, but you're stabbing yourself in the foot with that last point. Besides, to survive above the three promoted teams, we need to win all those games. Need I remind you we got thrashed by West Ham?!

340784[/snapback]

Wigan - sugar daddy, money no object

West Ham - in the very recent past made it into the European Top 20 Money League, debts reduced by £10m whilst in the CCC!!!!

Sunderland - I'll give you that one!

[Rovers_4_life]

Did anyone read this in the programme on Saturday? In the 01/02 season 30,487 came to Ewood to watch Rovers - Fulham! Attendaces dropped the seasons after and this season we had an embarrising 19,953. Something's gone seriously wrong and needs sorting if we are to move forwards.

[Presty On Tour]

where has everyone gone then??

i know when shearer left, that was a big blow.

the worst though was prob when we went down!!

[RoyRover]

For what it's worth I think that the drop in attendance may come down to the fact that for the last two seasons, Rovers have played so badly and people aren't willing to go and see a poor side. I'm not sure what our attendance figures were when we came back into the Premiership, but I'm sure that they are a lot larger than they are now. The fact that we had come back to the Premiership would have sent people to watch, but also because we were playing well, getting to a cup final in our first season and then finishing tenth and then finishing sixth in the table. We have gone backwards since and as such so have our crowds. If Hughes is able to put out a successful side, that wins and plays good football, then I'm sure that attendances could rise again, especially when you consider that we have pretty cheap tickets.

[Rovers_4_life]

where has everyone gone then??

i know when shearer left, that was a big blow.

the worst though was prob when we went down!!

340808[/snapback]

That 30,487 was after we got back in the prem, although it was when the worthington cup was paraded in front of the fans, i think, correct me if i'm wrong thats just off memory

[roverich]

i have been ridiculed for this before,but what about the non-attendees on this board,the far flung.those who cannot attend due to distance home and abroad.we as a message board could sponser say 5 season tickets,given to the lesss privliged,dare i say the asian quarter

340797[/snapback]

It's a very good idea and people have asked me recently if I would begin attending regularly again if the club offered cheaper tickets for students - again a good idea. But the biggest cost for me is not the ticket for the game. It would cost me £70 alone for my return train ticket to Blackburn from uni in Southampton. For those fans (like me) that now live away from the area, it's travel expenses that limit our appearances in the stands. It is all comes down again to the fact that Blackburn is a small and poor town with a small population, unable to sustain the gates necessary for long term Premiership stability.

[T4E]

I attended on Saturday, and also bought a paying guest with me - however it will be the last time I come to Ewood for a while. Despite leaving my house at 11am, I missed the first half of the game - the roadworks on the M6 are horrendous at the moment.

Point is - there's no miracle cure to sell out every week, every non-attendee has a different story, infact most have more than just one reason for not turning up. What the club have to do is determine what they can do that influences the majority of the non-attendees, the one thing that most of them have in common. The most annoying thing is that its a no-brainer. Reduce ticket prices - 25,000 in at £20 a head is much better that 16,953 at £25.

[jim mk2]

Exactly. We have the same old rubbish shoved down our throats from every possible media source. Probably 90% of press speculation is nothing more than lies printed or broadcast in an attempt to sell product.

340766[/snapback]

In my opinion, the over-exposure of football (the Champions League in particular) is on television, which (unless it is Rovers) I cannot be bothered to watch any more.