[Archived] Cricket (tests, Odi's And 20/20)

[AussieinUk]

Well AiUK, a long road back now.

Lee, a crock.

Symonds, a crock.

Hayden, totally lost it.

Hussey,M, a basket case

Ponting, A captain?

Where to from here?

Tom Moody as coach to start

Henriques

Hughes

other states fill in as applicable

The sad thing for cricket is that the Aussies have come back to the pack (or rather the leaders of that pack), rather than the standard across the board being lifted.

Aye, I agree with your sentiments dave... I said at the begninning of this series that I think this one was going to go to Saffa's.. I never like being right in situations such as these, but I guess that is cricket?

Moody is a great shout.. Personally, I can't stand Tim (nice but dim) Neilson... Question - Will Aus now 'clear the decks' as they did in the post 05' ashes tour?

Btw - The signs of the current performance’ were evident in the West Indies tour IMV

[AussieinUk]

This was a double post...

Here is the next squad for the 3rd test in Sydney.. Watson now out with an injury

Australia squad: R Ponting (capt), M Clarke, M Hayden, S Katich, M Hussey, A McDonald, B Haddin (wkt), N Hauritz, M Johnson, P Siddle, B Hilfenhaus, D Bollinger.

Oh crap! No Henriques, but McDonald is included?!?..

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Interesting that posters are suggesting that India will be up there with the Saffers (I thought there was actually very little to choose between India/England in the two tests they played). I personally don’t see it, Dravid, Tendulker will not be playing for that much longer.

And I am yet to be convinced by Y Singh, or Mishra at Test level.

IMO what will stop SA turning into the cricketing hegemon is a lack of a quality spinner and an aging top order.

The top spot in cricket is up for grabs with 3-4 sides capable of beating anyone

[neekoy]

Not entirely worried at this point, we have been beaten by a very good side in form, they are certainly on paper no better, they have just played extremely well and we have been poor.

Hayden will retire after Sydney good score or not, Clarke needs to step up if he ever wants to be Captain he is not doing anything better then a lot of domestic cricketers could do, Hussey has clearly suffered being up the order, Symonds is a liability and Lee should be breathing a sigh of relief he is injured because he is not on the right frame of mind to be playing test cricket against the second best team in the world.

With our two strike bowlers injured or not in the right frame of mind our bowling attack has suffered and we have been lucky to bowl them out once. There is a missing "mongrel" in the team and bowling stump to stump has suited the depth of batting attack SA have.

People bagging Ponting's captaincy need to realise he has had bugger all in bowling to work with, you can't set a field if your bowlers aren't bowling to it consistently and putting pressure on at both ends. My only gripe with him is he hasn't curbed the singles.

My team for Sydney would have been

Hayden, Katich, Ponting, Clarke, D Hussey, M Hussey, Haddin, Johnson, Bollinger, Siddle, Hilfenhaus/Krezja.

Hayden will retire and Lee and Clark will come back, Clarke to me needs to step up in Sydney at 4 and show he can dig in when needed like Ponting, Waugh, Taylor and Border otherwise they should send him back to NSW.

I know some like Jacques but Hughes has to replace Hayden, he will be playing next to Katich and needs to be given a shot. Krezja can at least take wickets, I am sure he can work on run rate.

[Billy Castell]

It's always interesting to see new names coming about when it is a foreign team. I admit I don't know many of the names that have been cited as 'ones for the future' or names to replace old duffers and former legends. When you're a casual fan of cricket in England you just assume that Australia have some Shane Warne or Justin Langer replacement who'll breeze in and keep it 'business as usual'. That has happened over the last 20 or so years as Taylor, the Waugh twins etc. were replaced or left without damaging the success of the team as Langer, Hayden, Gilchrist and Ponting slotted into the baggy green machine without any trouble. It has become taken for granted by many non-Australians that when the Ponting/Langer/Gilchrist/Warne generation retire there wll be a whole battery of younger men to take their country on to even higher levels. So to see Australia wobble and lose two test series in a short space of time is amazing.

The Ashes will be won by the team with the most in-form players, as both teams have got similar levels of class now.

Oh, and Harmison should be dropped if he is crap in the Windies. We cannot afford passengers.

[dave birch]

Billy, the biggest problem in the Australian side at the moment is not with the players, it's with the management and coaching of the side.

Since John Buchanan left there has been a noticable deterioration in the discipline of the side. They are more intent on making money; doing adverts, joining the ICL etc.

They have really lost their focus.

It's been said that it's harder to get out of the Australian Cricket side than to get in it, and that has been shown up much more of late, picking Lee and Symonds when they were injured was stupidity, picking Hayden when he was seriously out of form, hoping he would come good was dumb.

Whilst Neilsen is the coach, I have no confidence in the Australian side, he does not promote confidence. Bring back Buchanan, or give Tom Moody the job, or Steve Rixon, someone who will get the players moving.

[jim mk2]

Rumblings in the England camp of a rift between Pietersen and coach Peter Moores.

Pietersen apparently wants Michael Vaughan back on board for the Windies trip but Moores wants Vaughan to have preseason with Yorkshire and get some runs under his belt in county cricket.

The problem is such that both men barely speak to each other and ECB managing director Hugh Morris may be forced to resolve the impasse by knocking heads together or even dismissing one or the other - with Pietersen the captain and star player Moores would obviously the one to go.

Much as I dislike Moores because I think he is out of his depth in international cricket I think he is right in this instance : Vaughan has doing nothing to warrant selection and should not be picked for England at present.

The dispute does not bode well for the forthcoming Windies tour.

[AussieinUk]

They are more intent on making money; doing adverts..

Ah, the advertisement issues. I have spoken to many friends on this and most (if not all), have noticed that direct correlation in the fact that those players heavily involved (Lee, Symonds, Hussey, Clarke & Ponting) in CA and personal sponsorship deals, are the same players that have suffered a massive drop in their respective forms. What I really cannot understand, is why such players as Symonds, complain on official sponsorship commitments, but seem happy to continue with their personal endorsements?

Another concern for me (and dave you have already alluded to this), has been the Australian coaching staff setup. Key questions for me have been;

1. Why has Troy Cooley not worked his magic on the current pace unit and why have we not seen the benefits on the pitch?

2. Why has someone like Terry Jenner not been involved in (officially) helping to develop the Australian spinning ranks?

I am not going to rant on the current selection process, as I have expressed my view's on this in previous posts on this thread (i.e Hodge)

Moving on then, I see that MacDonald and Bollinger have been given the 'nod' for the 3rd test in Sydney today and have been handed the sacred baggy green. MacDonald for me is definitely a strange pick, but I guess we will see how he gets on. Interestingly, in the last six months, Australia has now given debuts to the most players in the last 22 years (86/87' I believe). I think this really underpins and highlights the current transitional phase, we are currently going through...

1. Haddin (W.I tour) - June

2. Casson (W.I tour) - June

3. White (Indian tour) - Oct

4. Siddle (Indian tour) - Oct

5. Krejza (Indian tour) - Nov

6. MacDonald (S.A home series) - Jan

7. Bollinger (S.A home series) - Jan

Note; the list above, would have been eight in total, IF the current selectors had grown some testicles and dumped Hayden when they had their numerous chances this year and included Phil Hughes, while the injured Jaques was out with a back problem..

EDIT: Btw - I understand your reasoning on mentioning Buch's there dave, but I wouldn't want that particular person back in the Oz setup... The more I think on it, the more I believe that Moody is the man for the job. Got a lot of respect in Australia and really showed great leadership when playing for Australia. Didn't do too bad for Sri Lanka, when coaching there a while ago..

[dave birch]

Ah, the advertisement issues. I have spoken to many friends on this and most (if not all), have noticed that direct correlation in the fact that those players heavily involved (Lee, Symonds, Hussey, Clarke & Ponting) in CA and personal sponsorship deals, are the same players that have suffered a massive drop in their respective forms. What I really cannot understand, is why such players as Symonds, complain on official sponsorship commitments, but seem happy to continue with their personal endorsements?

Another concern for me (and dave you have already alluded to this), has been the Australian coaching staff setup. Key questions for me have been;

1. Why has Troy Cooley not worked his magic on the current pace unit and why have we not seen the benefits on the pitch?

2. Why has someone like Terry Jenner not been involved in (officially) helping to develop the Australian spinning ranks?

I am not going to rant on the current selection process, as I have expressed my view's on this in previous posts on this thread (i.e Hodge)

Moving on then, I see that MacDonald and Bollinger have been given the 'nod' for the 3rd test in Sydney today and have been handed the sacred baggy green. MacDonald for me is definitely a strange pick, but I guess we will see how he gets on. Interestingly, in the last six months, Australia has now given debuts to the most players in the last 22 years (86/87' I believe). I think this really underpins and highlights the current transitional phase, we are currently going through...

1. Haddin (W.I tour) - June

2. Casson (W.I tour) - June

3. White (Indian tour) - Oct

4. Siddle (Indian tour) - Oct

5. Krejza (Indian tour) - Nov

6. MacDonald (S.A home series) - Jan

7. Bollinger (S.A home series) - Jan

Note; the list above, would have been eight in total, IF the current selectors had grown some testicles and dumped Hayden when they had their numerous chances this year and included Phil Hughes, while the injured Jaques was out with a back problem..

EDIT: Btw - I understand your reasoning on mentioning Buch's there dave, but I wouldn't want that particular person back in the Oz setup... The more I think on it, the more I believe that Moody is the man for the job. Got a lot of respect in Australia and really showed great leadership when playing for Australia. Didn't do too bad for Sri Lanka, when coaching there a while ago..

AiUK, I only put Buchanan in there on the basis that he would be a better choice than Neilsen. Agree that Moody should be given a go, but as the powers that be have given Neilsen a couple of more years, it won't be in the near future.

Punter had another "stunning" innings, again! He's either hot or cold, isn't he. I think we should start a "Facebook" thingy to get rid of Hayden, he has lost it, totally.

[Tris]

Punter had another "stunning" innings, again!

Bill Lawry got his tongue in a twist about 10 minutes before lunch ... he wanted to say "Ricky Ponting won the toss" but his initial effort came out as

"Ricky Tossing won ... " before he managed to stop himself and try again!

[dave birch]

Good one Tris. Bill's an excitable old chap, and he can't use drink as his excuse, he's teatotal.

The Sunday newspapers are really giving it to the Aussie selectors, Hilditch in particular. He's seen fit to go on hols and wasn't at the SCG. The team doctor came in for a bit of flak as well for allowing Lee, Symonds and Watson to be picked.

Interestingly, John Benaud (brother of Richie and former national selector) is putting Warnie up for a job as selector. Could do worse, Warnie reads the game well, maybe Shane for National coach?

[American Rover12]

Haven't read the whole thread but was wondering if anyone knew any quality and legal channels to watch matches online or even over here in the States. Not even necessarily live but I was talking to my friend who really loves it and I have only seen one match about 7 years ago when I was in AUS and would love to pick it up.

[dave birch]

AR12, I don't know of any online feeds, but cricinfo.com will carry regular updates, they may even have links to live feeds.

Scanning tv feeds around, especially India as they lerve their cricket may yield some success.

[AussieinUk]

Have to agree with dave there AR12.. Cricinfo.com is probably your best source for global updates and news.

A few P2P's carry some coverage, but IMV, they are very unreliable.

Punter had another "stunning" innings, again! He's either hot or cold, isn't he. I think we should start a "Facebook" thingy to get rid of Hayden, he has lost it, totally.

I never use 'stalkbook' dave.. too many circles overlap, but I totally understand what you mean re: Hayden. Lets hope PJ gets a shot at the openers position or Jaques is fit in time for the SA tour.

How bad is the injury to Smith? Will he play second innings? (sorry was at the beach today and missed the updates)

[dave birch]

Have to agree with dave there AR12.. Cricinfo.com is probably your best source for global updates and news.

A few P2P's carry some coverage, but IMV, they are very unreliable.

I never use 'stalkbook' dave.. too many circles overlap, but I totally understand what you mean re: Hayden. Lets hope PJ gets a shot at the openers position or Jaques is fit in time for the SA tour.

How bad is the injury to Smith? Will he play second innings? (sorry was at the beach today and missed the updates)

Looks like Smith broke more than a little finger. Shots of him showed a cast from his knuckles (i think) up to his mid forearm. He was in pain, big time. Couldn't get his glove back on. The ball that hit him was unplayable, came off a crack and reared very steeply. Had it not hit his hand he would have worn it on the grill of his helmet. He was lucky not to be caught, the ball could have gone anywhere

[Billy Castell]

With regards to the KP/Moores thing, I think Moores is right not to pick Vaughan. He has not scored any runs for years now, and needs to build his momentum at county level. If KP continues in this fashion then he should be removed from the England squad. He is not the England team, he is not the be all and end all, and should wind his neck in and be a team player. KP is sumpremely talented, but if his ego is too big and it inhibits his ability to perform and lead effectively then he should be sent back to Hampshire. I'm not a big fan of Moores, and I believe he is replaceable, but his position as the coach should not be undermined by the captain. No-one will win from that situation.

That is of couse assuming that the stories of the clashes are true.

[Flopsy]

its nothing to do with Moores, its the selectors decision - Moores and KP give there opinion on what/who they want and the selectors decide the names.

I think Vaughan shouldnt be going, I also think Bob Key should be there at three and Bell at 5. Collingwood gets dropped. Id also like to see Cook ejected, but you cant make to many changes

Also, the way to see what kind of job the coach is doing is to see which players are improving. Compared to what Fletcher did, there are no batsmen improving and Panesar has got a hell of a lot worse. Broad is so young that I'll have to give Moores the benefit of the doubt.

[Billy Castell]

I think Tom Moody should be considered. He had made Sri Lanka improve a lot, and knows the English game. Who coaches India nowadays? They must be getting some kudos right now, as is the Saffers' coach.

Moores is crap, and should go, but KP is overstepping the mark with his demands about which washed-up former great should come. And whose wife did Rob Key sleep with?

[Flopsy]

Rob Key and Shah.

[American Rover12]

Thanks for the help Dave and Aussie

[American Rover12]

Well now that Ive chatted with my friends dad, read the posts here, played a ton of slog out on cricinfo and watched some of the Sri Lanka match, I'm kind of excited to stay up tonight and watch the end of Aus-SA

[jim mk2]

its nothing to do with Moores, its the selectors decision - Moores and KP give there opinion on what/who they want and the selectors decide the names.

I think Vaughan shouldnt be going, I also think Bob Key should be there at three and Bell at 5. Collingwood gets dropped. Id also like to see Cook ejected, but you cant make to many changes

Also, the way to see what kind of job the coach is doing is to see which players are improving. Compared to what Fletcher did, there are no batsmen improving and Panesar has got a hell of a lot worse. Broad is so young that I'll have to give Moores the benefit of the doubt.

Note quite true : the England captain has considerable say in who he wants in his side.

Look at the papers today - it's obvious there's a tremendous battle going on behind the scenes and that Pietersen does not want to work with Moores at all. David Gower said today it is likely that Moores will be relieved of his duties before the Windies tour.

Either way, Hugh Morris needs to sort this out quickly. Time for strong leadership from the ECB.

[Flopsy]

ecb and strong leadership are not words that usually go together. selvey has a good blog on the guardian website about this.

Good comeback from aus. You must be cacking it that hayden will score a ton and cement his place for the summer

[AussieinUk]

I think Tom Moody should be considered. He had made Sri Lanka improve a lot, and knows the English game.

Hands off Billy! Tom is ours

Would be very disappointed if Moody went to England as head coach

Looks like Smith broke more than a little finger. Shots of him showed a cast from his knuckles (i think) up to his mid forearm. He was in pain, big time. Couldn't get his glove back on. The ball that hit him was unplayable, came off a crack and reared very steeply. Had it not hit his hand he would have worn it on the grill of his helmet. He was lucky not to be caught, the ball could have gone anywhere

Cheers dave.

Good comeback from aus. You must be cacking it that hayden will score a ton and cement his place for the summer

If even (and that is a big IF) Hayden scored a ton in the second dig, the guy is a dead man walking when Jaques is back and Hughes is taken more seriously...

Was at the game today and full credit to Siddle (and IMV MacDonald too), but again this test is far from over.

[AussieinUk]

Double Post - sorry