[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[imy9]

Virtually every thread on this MB somehow is brought round to Sam Allardyce by certain posters so thought I'd create a new thread to discuss the legend himself.

A quote from Tony Gale's Mic got me thinking this morning:

"He saved us from relegation in his first season, so calling him "some kind of messiah" is hardly inaccurate is it?"

Is Sam Allardyce really this good that he is a messiah or is he simply a good manager?

IMO

He took over from the disastrous reign of Paul Ince when we were 5 points adrift at the bottom and led us to being 5 points away from the bottom, a good achievement. Not a miracle IMO as you only have to look at the previous season to see that the vast majority of the squad that finished 7th were still at the club. The following season a good achievement to take us into 10th place, messiah status?

Curbishley did exactly the same thing at West Ham in a tougher situation in that they were in a worse position than us when he took over and got them survival and a top 10 finish-is he a messiah?

To summarise, I think that Sam Allardyce is a good manager who can do a good job for a team struggling, however he is no messiah.

[Mattyblue]

Top manager who did an excellent job on a crap budget.

His sacking was unnecessary, reckless and is the only reason we are staring down the barrel of relegation.

End of, full stop, period.

ps this 'messiah' tag was coined by the anti Allardyce brigade as a way of belitting his achievements- NOT by tony gale's mic or me or anyone else.

[imy9]

Top manager who did an excellent job on a crap budget.

His sacking was unnecessary, reckless and is the only reason we are staring down the barrel of relegation.

End of, full stop, period.

I'm assuming then that Hughes was the greatest messiah of all? Based on him doing a superb job on a crap budget?

Question: How many of Sams signings could we sell today for a profit?

[John]

Question: How many of Sams signings could we sell today for a profit?

That was not the mandate of the board when Sam was in charge was it?

[Mattyblue]

too right he was, Mark Hughes was the best manager we have had in generations.

Allardyce was improving the side year on year, was he as good in the transfer market as Sparky- probably not, but do not do the man down, his tenure was an unqualifies success.

[John]

To summarise, I think that Sam Allardyce is a good manager who can do a good job for a team struggling, however he is no messiah.

Bolton were struggling when he guided them to European qualification?

2004–05 saw Allardyce and Bolton finish sixth to win qualification in the UEFA Cup for the first time in the club's history, equal on points with 2005 UEFA Champions League victors Liverpool. In the early months of 2005–06, Allardyce once again took Bolton into the top half of the Premiership and also steered them into the knockout rounds of the UEFA Cup. Bolton eventually finished eighth that season.

[imy9]

That was not the mandate of the board when Sam was in charge was it?

Based on what Hughes did for the club and based on the fact that we were never going to invest heavily into the club how were we ever going to survive without selling our best players? So the same question again which of Sam's signings could we sell today for a profit?

[Gav]

too right he was, Mark Hughes was the best manager we have had in generations.

Allardyce was improving the side year on year, was he as good in the transfer market as Sparky- probably not, but do not do the man down, his tenure was an unqualifies success.

On Hughes I agree, would have him back in a shot, great manager, great backrooms staff, class acts.

Whilst Allardyce didn't have the players or funds, his buys in the transfer market have been poor for me, his marque signing isn't worth half of what we paid for him, and most of his gambles on youth haven't come off. I’m down on record numerous times for saying the one things Allardyce does bring is exciting transfer windows, he could always find gems, whilst I enjoyed transfer windows under his tenure, his buys have been rubbish in the main.

[imy9]

too right he was, Mark Hughes was the best manager we have had in generations.

Allardyce was improving the side year on year, was he as good in the transfer market as Sparky- probably not, but do not do the man down, his tenure was an unqualifies success.

He was a success, however is he some kid of messiah, I think not. Remember that the vast majority of players that Allardyce had are the same ones that finished 7th only months earlier, only the disastrous reign of Ince ensured that we struggled.

[cletus]

I'm assuming then that Hughes was the greatest messiah of all? Based on him doing a superb job on a crap budget?

Question: How many of Sams signings could we sell today for a profit?

In my view, Hughes did a great job

I liked almost everything about the way he went about his job. It was a sad day for me when he decided to leave Blackburn.

Ince was a tool....full stop.

Big Sam was far from perfect, BUT he did do a good job. He improved our league position every season on a budget of almost zero....& looked on course to do the same again this season. What more can you realistically ask of the guy? The cherry on top would`ve been more open attractive play, but in our position of league paupers he was roundly recognised for doing a GREAT job here. He did the same at Bolton, so it`s not a 'luck' thing.

Venkys are nothing but STUPID and ill advised to have dispensed with his services in the middle of a season, & it looks like we`re gonna suffer the consequences in a few weeks.

......on another note, do you think Sam would`ve brought in two 'never-heard-ofs' in the January window, or a couple of 'older more experienced heads'???

[Mattyblue]

So what? Nobody is saying that Allardyce had Hughes' knack in the transfer market.

The club didn't work like that, JW role was to ensure all our emerging and established players were signed up on long contracts- therefore Samba, Olsson, Hoilett, P Jones, Robinson et al would have been, ensuring profit.

Allardyce's role was to keep the club in the PL- something he would have done with plenty to spare again.

Oh and I don;t think you are getting it imy- no pro Allardyce fan coined this 'messiah' tag- it was his detractors.

[imy9]

So what? Nobody is saying that Allardyce had Hughes' knack in the transfer market.

The club didn't work like that, JW role was to ensure all our emerging and established players were signed up on long contracts- therefore Samba, Olsson, Hoilett, P Jones, Robinson et al would have been, ensuring profit.

Allardyce's role was to keep the club in the PL- something he would have done with plenty to spare again.

How long could a club like ours survive without selling our best players? We did it year on year, the difference is that Sam's signings were never going to give us any big profits.

Read the opening statement- TGM said as much, Pro Sam is an understatement!

[John]

He was a success, however is he some kid of messiah, I think not. Remember that the vast majority of players that Allardyce had are the same ones that finished 7th only months earlier, only the disastrous reign of Ince ensured that we struggled.

Yeah conveniently forgetting the quality players who we had to sell.

On Hughes, he was a superb manager for us and his work in the transfer market was unrivalled.

Imy - are you going to give credit to Sam for his work at Bolton? Or again is that not allowed into your debate.

For me, anyone who saves our club from relegation and potential financial ruin is a very good manager. He did not create the mess Ince left him with.

[Mattyblue]

Well as we were under no danger of relegation under Sam, a few more years yet.

You are arguing points that nobody is even disputing- bringing Hughes into it proves that.

tgm was merely using other posters pi$$ taking of Sam with the messiah tag, to point out his success.

[jim mk2]

and most of his gambles on youth haven't come off....... his buys have been rubbish in the main

Explain this one please.

[Jimmy612]

He was a success, however is he some kid of messiah, I think not. Remember that the vast majority of players that Allardyce had are the same ones that finished 7th only months earlier, only the disastrous reign of Ince ensured that we struggled.

Well we lost our best player in Bentley. He supplied all of the crosses for RSC. He was replaced with Andrews. RSC was a shadow of his former self that season. Vince Grella was brought in as Robbie Savage's replacement.

Quite a lot happened that season. Certainly i believe that the loss of Bentley and RSC (injured and without service) was absolutely catastrophic.

The problem is Imy9 you come out with all of these replacements that you would have liked instead of him. How much do you think is going to be spent on BRFC? I assume you have no idea? Martin Jol spent millions at spuds, and in all honesty brought similar success as Allardyce at Bolton and for a shorter period of time. Same with MoN. Do you not agree?

[imy9]

Yeah conveniently forgetting the quality players who we had to sell.

On Hughes, he was a superb manager for us and his work in the transfer market was unrivalled.

Imy - are you going to give credit to Sam for his work at Bolton? Or again is that not allowed into your debate.

For me, anyone who saves our club from relegation and potential financial ruin is a very good manager. He did not create the mess Ince left him with.

Sam did a good job at Bolton, having been the manager for 8 years, struggling for most of the 8 years, he had 3 successful years at the end.

My reckoning we sold Brad and Bentley, replaced with Robbo (excellent replacement), so ONE player, the cast majority of the squad was the same.

Well we lost our best player in Bentley. He supplied all of the crosses for RSC. He was replaced with Andrews. RSC was a shadow of his former self that season. Vince Grella was brought in as Robbie Savage's replacement.

Quite a lot happened that season. Certainly i believe that the loss of Bentley and RSC (injured and without service) was absolutely catastrophic.

The problem is Imy9 you come out with all of these replacements that you would have liked instead of him. How much do you think is going to be spent on BRFC? I assume you have no idea? Martin Jol spent millions at spuds, and in all honesty brought similar success as Allardyce at Bolton and for a shorter period of time. Same with MoN. Do you not agree?

Robbie left before we finished 7th.

Jol spent 31 million net for three years to finish 5th- twice, how much have Man City spent to get into that position now? O'Neill is a different story but again sell Milner, Young, Gabby and most of the money that he spent would be recouped.

[jim mk2]

Sam did a good job at Bolton, having been the manager for 8 years, struggling for most of the 8 years, he had 3 successful years at the end.

My reckoning we sold Brad and Bentley, replaced with Robbo (excellent replacement), so ONE player, the cast majority of the squad was the same.

Santa Cruz (the good one season version) went for £17m - not properly replaced. Warnock sold - not replaced. Tugay got too old - not replaced. Savage got too old - not replaced.

[Jimmy612]

Sam did a good job at Bolton, having been the manager for 8 years, struggling for most of the 8 years, he had 3 successful years at the end.

My reckoning we sold Brad and Bentley, replaced with Robbo (excellent replacement), so ONE player, the cast majority of the squad was the same.

Robbie left before we finished 7th.

Jol spent 31 million net for three years to finish 5th- twice, how much have Man City spent to get into that position now? O'Neill is a different story but again sell Milner, Young, Gabby and most of the money that he spent would be recouped.

I take your point but where are you getting £31million to spend at Blackburn? (and I heard it was more than that). If you are going to use Agbonlahor as an example then how much would we get for PJ and Junior? Add in Nzonzi who we would sell for a profit i believe. Not too bad for the money spent.

However, why are you comparing Allardyce to Hughes? We all know Hughes was fantastic for this team, and in particular a fantastic scouting network. But we were never going to get him back so who was your next idea?

Well MoN spent over 100 million at AV so you have to sell Young and Gabby for a lot to recoup it

[Mattyblue]

He didn't 'struggle' at Bolton.

You are showing your true colours now imy.

[imy9]

Santa Cruz (the good one season version) went for £17m - not properly replaced. Warnock sold - not replaced. Tugay got too old - not replaced. Savage got too old - not replaced.

I agree Jim, who was the manager who sold Warnock (our left back and player of the year) to cover the wage bill because he bought THREE right backs to the club, one of whom (Chimbonda) was purchased to replace Warnock at left back??? Crazy or what? Replacing Santa Cruz with Kalinic a man who CANNOT play up front by himself when that is Sams prefered style of play. Finally Sam did not sign a central midfield player because he wanted to keep Andrews... he did turn down an offer from Fulham and then subsequently played him in the vast majority of games.

He didn't 'struggle' at Bolton.

You are showing your true colours now imy.

True colours? Where we were Bolton for the first 5 of those 8 years Matty?

"so calling him "some kind of messiah" is hardly inaccurate is it?"

That is pretty clear Matty as to what he thinks, not taking the p*** or otherwise.

[BangkokRover]

Santa Cruz (the good one season version) went for £17m - not properly replaced. Warnock sold - not replaced. Tugay got too old - not replaced. Savage got too old - not replaced.

This is the exact reason Hughes left, Bentley was sold and he was told he could not have the funds to reinvest in the squad. So no mater how many gems Hughes found the money would not have been given to him to buy better players. So the club and Hughes as a manager could not move forward.

[Mattyblue]

Kept them in the Championship, got them promoted despite having amuch smaller budget than us and Fulham, kept them in the PL then improved their league position year on year.

[Kamy100]

Sam did a fantastic job. His modus operandi was to keep Rovers in the Premier League on a very limited budget, he achieved that and last season exceed all expectations by finishing in the top 10. He was also on course to achieve Premier League safety this season.

The reason that a lot of threads get turned towards “if Sam was here” is because the majority of fans believe that his sacking was wrong and the subsequent appointment of Steve Kean has been disastrous with the club hurled into a relegation battle. So what happens is that the fans who were angry at Sam getting sacked and then not being replaced with a “proper” manager see the club possibly getting relegated because of these poor decisions say “this wouldn’t have happened if Sam was still incharge”.

I don’t think anyone believes that Sam was the “messiah”, what most people recognise is that he was a very fine manager who did the best for the club with very few financial resources. His football wasn’t pretty to watch but his one and only aim was to keep Rovers in the Premier League which he did.

[John]

Sam did a fantastic job. His modus operandi was to keep Rovers in the Premier League on a very limited budget, he achieved that and last season exceed all expectations by finishing in the top 10. He was also on course to achieve Premier League safety this season.

The reason that a lot of threads get turned towards “if Sam was here” is because the majority of fans believe that his sacking was wrong and the subsequent appointment of Steve Kean has been disastrous with the club hurled into a relegation battle. So what happens is that the fans who were angry at Sam getting sacked and then not being replaced with a “proper” manager see the club possibly getting relegated because of these poor decisions say “this wouldn’t have happened if Sam was still incharge”.

I don’t think anyone believes that Sam was the “messiah”, what most people recognise is that he was a very fine manager who did the best for the club with very few financial resources. His football wasn’t pretty to watch but his one and only aim was to keep Rovers in the Premier League which he did.

Good post and summary Kamy.

The clear mandate from JW and the board was keep us in the PL at all costs.

As I have made clear many times, I believe Sam is a very good manager who did an excellent job under very limited resources. In his short time here he improved us and given the ability, with additional finance, would have been able to add quality to the squad therefore improving us further IMO. He also helped aid the development of some of our younger players such as Junior and Phil Jones.

The view of most of the senior players, at Rovers, was that Sam was the best manager they have ever played under - they had a huge amount of respect for him. You are never going to get on with every player but his man management skills were top class.

A general view, of mine, is that there are not that many decent managers around therefore when you have a good one managing your club, you should try and keep them.