[Archived] Sam Allardyce Messiah or simply a good manager?

[roverwhelmed]

why?why is it den? hes gone theres nowt me or thee can do. its now a case of theres nothing else can be said ,everyone as their views and opinions and everyones varying opinions is documented. Its like a stuck record on both sides now ,boring ,repetitive and can only be stopped by turning the record over or lifting the needle and turning the machine off.

The thing is, we as Rovers supporters were (pretty much) all against him being sacked. There is absolutely sod all we can do about it, no. He isn't coming back. You are right.

According to Kean, the Rao family read this message board. If we stop going on about it, if we stop mentioning how stupid it was, if we stop saying that we need a real manager then they will think all is hunky dory in the Rovers fans' camp. It most definitely is not. I hope they read on a daily basis how frustrated they have left 20,000 plus people by their reckless decisions. I hope they are trying to work out how to put it right. I hope they are lining a manager up who will succeed and then we can leave this sorry saga in the past and move on, and focus upon a future more befitting of the club we love.

I think we will hear these arguments, the overspill from our (justified) frustration, until the Rao family put it right.

[Gav]

Olsson was introduced by Ince so who gets the credit, similarly Hoilett was introduced by Sam but has been starting for Kean, who gets the credit?

I was referring to Allardyces buys, Jim may has misinterpreted what I was saying, or was a bit quick to jump in.

[Majiball]

Two players who are doing well now but how well will they do next year or the year after? They could have come in on huge wages and probably on a 3-4 years contract- we could be stuck with players who start to break down or their leg's start to go. There is also the issue about the pace, speed and power in this league, far quicker than on the continent.

It's a model not viable for a club like ours, we already have high wages and we don't have big money. The model for us is clearly the buy the younger out of favour players on the cheap develop them or getting them performing above their ability and then sell them for a profit, but instead of the club pocketing all the money (like we saw under Hughes) reinvest.

I'm glad Sam didn't get his way on those transfers. I think we dodged a bullet, two bullets in fact.

I doubt they would have gotten 3-4 year deals, I believe 2 years each was spoken about at around 70-90K.

Pushing the boat out and signing a ball player ala Guti, could have made us more entertaining. Nice thing about older players is that you know they can play, you just need to keep them fit N fresh, provided they adapt, but that's the same for every player.

Constantly signing kids is a lovely ethos, but you'll still need quality there and then and for me on reflection not signing Guti, was a mistake. Even Wenger signs the odd Scquailli (SP) every so often.

[ABBEY]

The way of the world Abbey. Just as when Sam was here and there was nowt we could do about that, it didn't stop people having a go at him day in, day out. That was boring and repetitive too.

do you go on at the wife at how your ex gf's where better than her? THE DIFFERENCE IS DEN ITS GONE<FINOTO PAST TENSE>.

last time i cooment to you on this matter as its repetetive ,no doubt you will reply with something sluggy

[broadsword]

It's totally relevant.

It's not like an ex-girlfriend at all. It's more like buying your shopping at Tesco's and realising you were better off at Sainbury's. Except you do something naughty in Sainsbury's and now you can't go back.

Sacking Sam was a major turning on the road to where we are now. We are in it up to our eyebrows so of course people will be talking about it.

[jim mk2]

By the way I'm enjoying going to games again, loved Wigan away,

How else in one supposed to interpret this ??

You said you enjoy watching Rovers lose.

Silly emoticons at the end of each sentence don't validate your argument which is still fundamentally nonsense.

[BangkokRover]

I think we will hear these arguments, the overspill from our (justified) frustration, until the Rao family put it right.

Correct until Kean leaves or takes us to 10th the family will be beaten with this stick.

Saying things like you have to get 7 out of 10 decisions is laughable.

1 Letting John Williams leave Rovers unless there is a reason we as fans have not heard.

2 Sacking BFS

3 Replacing him with Kean

4 We are going to sign (insert name here)and making Rovers and its fans the laughing stock of the EPL.

5 Giving Roberts a contract

6 Signing RSC on loan and agreeing to pay his wages £90K a week. Citeh must have wet themselves laughing when it was agreed to.

7 Signing an Agents son.

8 The three family members contradicting themselves in the national media again making Rovers the laughing stock of the EPL.

9 Appointing John Jenson as assistant manager.

10 Saying we will finish (insert any position in the top half of the EPL) and we will give the manager £5M to achieve this goal.

[John]

Comments before the Bolton game, Sam’s last game in charge.

Allardyce, however, remains bullish. “We don’t get much credit. That’s the way it is; we are a small town club, but we are enjoying ourselves.”

Striker Jason Roberts, heading into the final six months of his contract, agrees. “We are happy going about our work and if people don’t notice us, that’s fine. We came 10th last season and this year we have to look to improve on that,” he said.

Ewood Park form is providing a solid foundation towards that aim and Saturday’s latest success, that consigned a wretched Wolves to bottom place, provided adequate redemption for the previous week’s 7-1 humiliation at the hands of Manchester United.

“The backlash is always going to happen. You have to expect it when you lose 7-1,” claimed Allardyce. “The reality is we have won four out of the last six and are way ahead of last season’s points total at this stage.”

[ABBEY]

It's totally relevant.

It's not like an ex-girlfriend at all. It's more like buying your shopping at Tesco's and realising you were better off at Sainbury's. Except you got your knob out in Sainsbury's and told the checkout girl to suck it and now you can't go back.

Sacking Sam was a major turning on the road to where we are now. We are in it up to our eyebrows so of course people will be talking about it.

but the venkys hired a hooker at netto!

[Mercer]

Simply, a superb manager of a club with limited resources who is almost certain to both guarantee you PL survival and make steady progress, as evidenced by his track record at Bolton and Rovers.

The 'anti-Sam' brigade will soon deeply regret his dismissal.

[BangkokRover]

Simply, a superb manager of a club with limited resources who is almost certain to both guarantee you PL survival and make steady progress, as evidenced by his track record at Bolton and Rovers.

The 'anti-Sam' brigade will soon deeply regret his dismissal.

Probably not as they have already made up their mind.

[Tom]

It's totally relevant.

It's not like an ex-girlfriend at all. It's more like buying your shopping at Tesco's and realising you were better off at Sainbury's. Except you got your knob out in Sainsbury's and told the checkout girl to suck it and now you can't go back.

Sacking Sam was a major turning on the road to where we are now. We are in it up to our eyebrows so of course people will be talking about it.

I wouldn't keep talking about Sainsburys baked beans though, however I would like to look at ASDA as an alternative to Tesco.

[Mercer]

How much do you think his worth now? 3 million?

Anyone else? Goulon (looks a dud, inevitably, not all can be diamonds when rummaging around the rubble), Givet (excellent, versatile value for money signing - instrumental in keeping us up that first season,) EHD (again, instrumental in keeping us up that first season - having a good season this season until the, IMO, muppet Kean allowed Warnock into bullying him into alienating EHD - how we are missing him now), Kalinic...will prove to be a diamond somewhere, if not here, trust me

[blue_and_white]

Depends how you want to define "Messiah". If you're using the classical definition then Allardyce isn't a messiah and nobody else is, has been, or ever will be in football. If you're using the definition of someone who has done something momentous at a club then he is. As I said in another topic, if Sam hadn't kept us up in 2009 there would have been no takeover, no new buyers, no future investment and we'd have become exactly like Burnley for a long time. A Championship team with little funds, average support and always just an outside shot at the play-offs.

As for it not being a particularly amazing achievement, I totally disagree. The team that finished 7th under Hughes was crucially different in a number of areas. Allardyce had no fully fit Santa Cruz, no Bentley, no Friedel, no Oojier, no Warnock, no Savage, no fully fit McCarthy. Rovers fans always have a tendency to over-rate our players and therefore expect too much but realistically the team under Hughes were mid-table quality and his excellent management turned them into european material, the team under Allardyce were relegation candidates (as playing good football under Ince and Kean has proved) and he substantially overachieved with them in both seasons he was here.

[John]

As for it not being a particularly amazing achievement, I totally disagree. The team that finished 7th under Hughes was crucially different in a number of areas. Allardyce had no fully fit Santa Cruz, no Bentley, no Friedel, no Oojier, no Warnock, no Savage, no fully fit McCarthy. Rovers fans always have a tendency to over-rate our players and therefore expect too much but realistically the team under Hughes were mid-table quality and his excellent management turned them into european material, the team under Allardyce were relegation candidates (as playing good football under Ince and Kean has proved) and he substantially overachieved with them in both seasons he was here.

Excellent management on and off the pitch in recent years has enabled us to compete in the PL - now we have the opposite and the results are there for all to see.

[imy9]

My question still stands how many of Sams signings will get us a profit? EHD- lucky to get rid on a free, Givet can't see more than 2 million, the only profit will be Nzonzi and he seems to be going backwards, Goulon, Elrio, Basturk etc duds who came and went.

[Mattyblue]

Not many imy, so what have you proved?

[K-Hod]

Imy- why did you start a thread about Allardyce?

Every other thread descends into pointless and useless debate about him already!

Everyone has their opinions about the man, that have been voiced time and again in countless threads on here, other messageboards, in pubs, at home et al.

Is there really anything more to say?

[BangkokRover]

My question still stands how many of Sams signings will get us a profit? EHD- lucky to get rid on a free, Givet can't see more than 2 million, the only profit will be Nzonzi and he seems to be going backwards, Goulon, Elrio, Basturk etc duds who came and went.

People have already answered you, BFS job was to keep Rovers in the EPL. Nothing more nothing else.

He also had a lot less money to spend than Hughes.

Personally I think Nzonzi has been very good in the last few games I have seen him in.

[imy9]

Depends how you want to define "Messiah". If you're using the classical definition then Allardyce isn't a messiah and nobody else is, has been, or ever will be in football. If you're using the definition of someone who has done something momentous at a club then he is. As I said in another topic, if Sam hadn't kept us up in 2009 there would have been no takeover, no new buyers, no future investment and we'd have become exactly like Burnley for a long time. A Championship team with little funds, average support and always just an outside shot at the play-offs.

As for it not being a particularly amazing achievement, I totally disagree. The team that finished 7th under Hughes was crucially different in a number of areas. Allardyce had no fully fit Santa Cruz, no Bentley, no Friedel, no Oojier, no Warnock, no Savage, no fully fit McCarthy. Rovers fans always have a tendency to over-rate our players and therefore expect too much but realistically the team under Hughes were mid-table quality and his excellent management turned them into european material, the team under Allardyce were relegation candidates (as playing good football under Ince and Kean has proved) and he substantially overachieved with them in both seasons he was here.

Sam had nearly 12 million to spend plus wages in his two years here, Ooijer? 34 year old centre half is he better than PJ, Nelsen or Samba? Bentley is the only difference, the others were still here, is there a 8 place difference because of two players?

[John]

My question still stands how many of Sams signings will get us a profit? EHD- lucky to get rid on a free, Givet can't see more than 2 million, the only profit will be Nzonzi and he seems to be going backwards, Goulon, Elrio, Basturk etc duds who came and went.

So that means he did a bad job?

You seem obssessed by that point as if to justify your claims that we should have finished higher than 10th last season.

Sam was result driven and initially we/he had to firefight just to stay in the PL - don't think he could be too choosy with signings and comparing him with Hughes is fairly pointless as Sparky was unrivalled in relation to his transfer work during his time here - even Hughes said it became harder to sign good players for little money hence one of the reasons why he wanted to leave.

[den]

do you go on at the wife at how your ex gf's where better than her? THE DIFFERENCE IS DEN ITS GONE<FINOTO PAST TENSE>.

last time i cooment to you on this matter as its repetetive ,no doubt you will reply with something sluggy

It's the reason why we're in this mess Abbey. It's absolutely relevant.

BTW, what's "sluggy"?

[imy9]

Not many imy, so what have you proved?

That he was not great at buying players, thread title is about whether he is a good manager surely this is an aspect of it?

I started the thread so that people who continually want to talk about Sam can without clogging up other threads.

[John]

Sam had nearly 12 million to spend plus wages in his two years here, Ooijer? 34 year old centre half is he better than PJ, Nelsen or Samba? Bentley is the only difference, the others were still here, is there a 8 place difference because of two players?

To improve on 10th would usually cost considerably more than £12 million - for a number of years our team has had a lack of investment and also having to sell your best players continously does not help things either.

[imy9]

So that means he did a bad job?

You seem obssessed by that point as if to justify your claims that we should have finished higher than 10th last season.

Sam was result driven and initially we/he had to firefight just to stay in the PL - don't think he could be too choosy with signings and comparing him with Hughes is fairly pointless as Sparky was unrivalled in relation to his transfer work during his time here - even Hughes said it became harder to sign good players for little money hence one of the reasons why he wanted to leave.

The point is that to survive as a club pre takeover it was imperative that we bought and sold well. Sam spent £12 million on transfers, thats a sizeable kitty for a Rovers manager, what did we get for it? a striker who cannot play upfront by himself, a centre half to play at left back, a right back to play at left back! I mean Warnock was sold to cover the wages of Salgado, as much as I like Salgado we should not have sold Warnock for that reason, we had Jacobsen and Emerton who are right backs already.

Sam did a good job of keeping us up, but give it another 2 years of purchasing duds and we would be at the beginning of Hughes' reign and that dire squad.

To improve on 10th would usually cost considerably more than £12 million - for a number of years our team has had a lack of investment and also having to sell your best players continously does not help things either.

Currently Newcastle and West Brom are in the top 10 as are Bolton, it can be done, we did not notice the lack of investment previously because the quality of players that we were purchasing was so good, you are noticing it now due to the poor signings.