[Archived] Venkys, Kean, Stability and Progress?

[beerwins]

Kean probably is a suberb coach, he gets a togetherness in the players and gets them fighting till the final whistle(apart from today), he builds up their confidence and has them full of self belief BUT that's what coaches do. Managers find a way of getting results, they set up with a gameplan and when that fails they go to plan b, Kean has no plan b and because of his softly softly approach when the players need a bollocking and a change of tactics we lack badly.

I said ages ago when everybody was calling for his head until he loses the players he wont go and he still retains the players backing ( I think it helps massively that all the players are kids and the more experienced pro is offered a new contract or shipped out).

He is the exact opposite of Souness he gives the players the power and relies on a good team spirit to get results but when that fails he has no plan b.

A manager that manages to link the two styles together would become a cracking manager but Kean will not manage this as you can see from the second half performance today, the players should have come out all guns blazing but he cant fire the players up from a rollocking because they wont respect him.

[Mercer]

Much like the playing staff and management team though, they have shorn the board of all of its experience.

There simply isn't anyone better equipped to run the club. Just a bunch of line-toers.

Wonder what Rob Coar and Ken Beamish REALLY think about how things are going?

Beamish is a paid employee and difficult for him to comment (or at least he has to be careful who to ).

I think Coar is a non exec. director who could spill the beans and stir things up if he was minded to. Oh forgot, I understand his FA connections are conditional upon him being a PL director ! Hmmm. Anyone heard from him since the takeover ?

[Stuart]

Kean probably is a suberb coach, he gets a togetherness in the players and gets them fighting till the final whistle(apart from today), he builds up their confidence and has them full of self belief BUT that's what coaches do. Managers find a way of getting results, they set up with a gameplan and when that fails they go to plan b, Kean has no plan b and because of his softly softly approach when the players need a bollocking and a change of tactics we lack badly.

I said ages ago when everybody was calling for his head until he loses the players he wont go and he still retains the players backing ( I think it helps massively that all the players are kids and the more experienced pro is offered a new contract or shipped out).

He is the exact opposite of Souness he gives the players the power and relies on a good team spirit to get results but when that fails he has no plan b.

A manager that manages to link the two styles together would become a cracking manager but Kean will not manage this as you can see from the second half performance today, the players should have come out all guns blazing but he cant fire the players up from a rollocking because they wont respect him.

Superb, cracking post.

[imy9]

Aaargh!! Which is it, imy?

It's difficult to debate with someone who keeps changing their mind!

I accidentally put Curbs in the first one- blame the iPhone lol

I would take Curbs but I dont like his style of play.

Bruce is a resounding no from me. I mentioned Bruce because you said you would 'take any proven pl manager' I would guess Bruce is in that category?

[Stuart]

I mentioned Bruce because you said you would 'take any proven pl manager' I would guess Bruce is in that category?

Not quite - I was asking why you wouldn't take any proven PL manager. Same difference I guess.

My argument is that Kean simply has to go. You can't defend Steve Kean by saying "well at least he's not Steve Bruce".

By the way, even Bruce has a better managerial record than Kean - and he's had a lot more matches under his belt.

[Amo]

Bruce's win % at Wigan (a club of similar size to our own) wasn't much less than Allardyce's here.

I'd take him in a shot over Cueball.

[FourLaneBlue]

Would I change Kean for the likes of Bruce or Curbs etc? That would be a resounding no.

How you can place Kean as being even close to the likes of Curbishley I do not know. Not a lot of point taking anything you say seriously when you come out with a statement like that.

[imy9]

Not quite - I was asking why you wouldn't take any proven PL manager. Same difference I guess

My argument is that Kean simply has to go. You can't defend Steve Kean by saying "well at least he's not Steve Bruce".

By the way, even Bruce has a better managerial record than Kean - and he's had a lot more matches under his belt.

Venkys= Kean, so in that equation I can't see a 'proven pl manager coming' here.

Bruce is 1% more than Kean at Sunderland and 4% more at Wigan, that's not much of a difference.

I want BOTH gone Venkys and Kean but until that happens Keans here and his win % has shot up 10% in a few months and I reckon it'll be on par with most average pl managers soon [between 30 and 35%] so worth changing?

[FourLaneBlue]

I think Bruce is one of very few I wouldn't want us to swap Kean for. I still wouldn't be upset if we did, however.

[Amo]

Bruce is 1% more than Kean at Sunderland and 4% more at Wigan, that's not much of a difference.

Wouldn't that actually be over 6%?

Kean - 27.59%

Bruce - 33.82%

But psssh, who needs those extra points! Kean will be up there soon enough. In Imy we trust.

[Andy]

The results under Kean are bad enough to be used as evidence as to why he must leave, but he also represents/causes a huge divide between fans and to a large amount, they won't be happy until he's gone.

Imagine the unity at the club had we managed to bring Hughes back, for example.

Things will not start to improve at the club until Kean leaves.

[imy9]

Wouldn't that actually be over 6%?

Kean - 27.59%

Bruce - 33.82%

But psssh, who needs those extra points! Kean will be up there soon enough. In Imy we trust.

How much money did those extra points cost Topman? Venkys don't seem to be spending any money. Bruce spent fortunes at Sunderland.

Imy's a realist.

[Waggy76]

The results under Kean are bad enough to be used as evidence as to why he must leave, but he also represents/causes a huge divide between fans and to a large amount, they won't be happy until he's gone.

Imagine the unity at the club had we managed to bring Hughes back, for example.

Things will not start to improve at the club until Kean leaves.

Until Venkys and Kean leave we will have divides..They are taking us down just a matter of time this season or next ...

People have to realise we will have a worse squad in August which ever division we are in ...

It was always going to be difficult at Bolton after the events of last Saturday at Spurs , but the lack of fight from the players and virtually no effort by Kean to rescue a point in last 10 minutes beggered belief ..It was though he had settled to lose 2-1 .

[Amo]

How much money did those extra points cost Topman? Venkys don't seem to be spending any money. Bruce spent fortunes at Sunderland.

Imy's a realist.

Shouldn't that be how much did Bruce spend at Wigan?

Imy's confused.

[imy9]

Shouldn't that be how much did Bruce spend at Wigan?

Imy's confused.

Bruces' LAST job which was THIS season he spent a fortune and flopped- that's the only one that matters at the moment, THREE seasons ago at Wigan is a long time ago, PL moves at a fast rate especially for managers who worked on shoe string budgets.

Topman need to get a new Pannini book.

[Amo]

Bruces' LAST job which was THIS season he spent a fortune and flopped- that's the only one that matters at the moment, THREE seasons ago at Wigan is a long time ago, PL moves at a fast rate especially for managers who worked on shoe string budgets.

Topman need to get a new Pannini book.

Good thing that WBA didn't consider Roy Hodgson's last job before they appointed him.

[imy9]

Good thing that WBA didn't consider Roy Hodgson's last job before they appointed him.

Unless I'm mistaken Roy became manager of West Brom EIGHT months after Fulham, less than a season, I don't think transfers changed that much in that time lol.

Topman needs to try harder

[Amo]

Unless I'm mistaken Roy became manager of West Brom EIGHT months after Fulham, less than a season, I don't think transfers changed that much in that time lol.

Topman needs to try harder

You said all that matters is Bruce's last job.

Well, Hodgson's was at Liverpool and he flopped. Yet he's doing a quietly good job at WBA.

[imy9]

You said all that matters is Bruce's last job.

Well, Hodgson's was at Liverpool and he flopped. Yet he's doing a quietly good job at WBA.

I would read what I said again- put it into context instead of taking a line and extrapolating it.

I said all that matters at the MOMENT for Bruce- next line his previous job was three seasons back and times change. Roy is completely different he was at Liverpool for half a season but six months earlier was manager of the year, surely you can see the difference?

[Amo]

Steve Bruce is an underrated manager. By no means a managerial heavyweight, but his career has a solid record (especially at Palace, Birmingham & Wigan). Yet you're basing your entire opinion of him on the exception? I already pointed out that he's a manager who patently works better at clubs with a smaller budget. I'm not all that surprised it never worked out for him at Sunderland.

Explain to me what's radically changed in three seasons that would prohibit Bruce from doing a good job. Then we'll talk.

[Andy]

I don't like Steve Bruce and don't think he's a good manager, but he is infinitely more experienced, respected and proven than Kean will ever be.

[DE.]

I don't like Steve Bruce and don't think he's a good manager, but he is infinitely more experienced, respected and proven than Kean will ever be.

This. I wouldn't want him here under normal circumstances but would I take him over Kean? Every day of the week.

[imy9]

Steve Bruce is an underrated manager. By no means a managerial heavyweight, but his career has a solid record (especially at Palace, Birmingham & Wigan). Yet you're basing your entire opinion of him on the exception? I already pointed out that he's a manager who patently works better at clubs with a smaller budget. I'm not all that surprised it never worked out for him at Sunderland.

Explain to me what's radically changed in three seasons that would prohibit Bruce from doing a good job. Then we'll talk.

I would argue that Bruce has rarely done a "good job"

So his record at FOUR clubs in total.

Palace- Championship team? Were they in the PL... next. (Only there for EIGHTEEN games)

Birmingham- decent job at the start BUT he got them relegated, do you want a manager who has that on his CV at Rovers?

Wigan- His success story- but only there for EIGHTEEN months and has a 33% win percentage, decent but not great.

Sunderland- his longest spell in the top flight, 98 games, lots of money spent and a win % of 29%- Kean is 28%

So in the PL he has had ONE good job in THREE and only there for 18 months.

The whole PL has changed in three years, Man City have arrived and spent money not only on players but on excessive wages.

Does Bruce know how to purchase good players on a small budget?

You are spinning around in circles chasing your own tail- you mentioned Hodgson as a manager to compare with but his record is SUPERB, even at Liverpool he was winning 42% of his games, 39% with Fulham and 37% with West Brom, so yes I am sure West Brom looked at his record before hiring him

IF you can put your hatred of Kean and Venkys to one side you would see that Bruce is not a good fit for us, I would keep Kean over Bruce, he has at least brought through a number of quality youth players and has the players on his side- look at Sunderland especially and he had lost the dressing room.

Topman needs new material

[blue_n_white99]

IF you can put your hatred of Kean and Venkys to one side you would see that Bruce is not a good fit for us, I would keep Kean over Bruce, he has at least brought through a number of quality youth players and has the players on his side- look at Sunderland especially and he had lost the dressing room.

Most fans will never put aside their hatred for the deluded one, playing records aside he has alienated the majority to an extent that most will never forgive him and would accept most other managers instead of this clown. Is that rational, no it isn't but he is an untrustworthy reptile and I cannot wait for the day that he and Venkys are gone, as you can see I am totally impartial on this subject.

[Andy]

Most fans will never put aside their hatred for the deluded one, playing records aside he has alienated the majority to an extent that most will never forgive him and would accept most other managers instead of this clown. Is that rational, no it isn't but he is an untrustworthy reptile and I cannot wait for the day that he and Venkys are gone

Yes.

As I said on another thread, potting Kean and replacing him with a proper manager would unite the fans again.

Whilst Kean is here, that will not happen.