[Archived] Newcastle Away 26/10

[47er]

No probs USA.

It's just disappointing that when you get a good result folks are always looking for an excuse e.g. they made several changes, they didn't perform on the day, their coach ran over a black cat on the way to the stadium etc...

We've castigated the current manager (and previous one's) for trying to make excuses for defeats, Let's give this one some credit for putting out a team that actually did quite well.

BTW anyone who went to the game still suffering from vertigo?

At the same time let's not believe that one excellent result resolves our long-term problems. Enjoy it while recognising that we will never prosper under Venkys.

[bazza]

I see Huddersfield have lost at home to Wigan tonight. Just watch them come to Ewood and turn us over.

Then it'll be all doom and gloom again. Venkys Out!

[Lancaster Rover]

Also keeps Wigan within touching distance of us, if results don't go our way on Saturday we are right back in it.

[ABBEY]

RIGHT BACK IN IT?

WEVE BEEN RIGHT IN IT FOR 6 YEARS

[Lancaster Rover]

I mean the relegation places in the 16/17 season of the SkyBet Championship, but you know that already.

[JHRover]

To be fair that is all complete nonesense, we were scheduled to play Middlesbrough at home on boxing day last year with a 3pm kick off, they had the whole darwen end.

Even the year before, we played them on the 28th with a 3pm kick off and they again had been allocated the whole darwen end.

I know it's nonsense. We've played countless games at 3pm, 5pm and 8pm over the years against the likes of Man Utd, Man City and Liverpool all with 7,500+ away fans and 20,000+ home fans in a full Ewood and the police did nothing to stop it.

However last season things changed, and on the occasions where large away followings in the league the club were very clear that they had their hands tied. The club claimed that they were powerless to resist a kick off time change and that they were forced to move games to lunchtime on police advice.

Now it seems all that was a lie, as when Sky Sports come calling with their fat chequebook all of a sudden the police requirement disappears and the club is quite willing and able to facilitate a 3pm kick off with 7,000+ Newcastle supporters having their big day out as Blackburn seems to be for them.

http://www.rovers.co.uk/documents/14th-march-2016195-3045348.pdf

Lynsey Talbot told the Fans Forum in March that the police 'stipulate' an early kick off time if the whole of the Darwen End is handed to the away club. So how come there's no such 'stipulation' this time round?

As ever the club just doing what they are told whilst the real power is held by Sky Sports and the police whilst Blackburn Rovers supporters are right at the back of the queue.

[MCMC1875]

I know it's nonsense. We've played countless games at 3pm, 5pm and 8pm over the years against the likes of Man Utd, Man City and Liverpool all with 7,500+ away fans and 20,000+ home fans in a full Ewood and the police did nothing to stop it.

However last season things changed, and on the occasions where large away followings in the league the club were very clear that they had their hands tied. The club claimed that they were powerless to resist a kick off time change and that they were forced to move games to lunchtime on police advice.

Now it seems all that was a lie, as when Sky Sports come calling with their fat chequebook all of a sudden the police requirement disappears and the club is quite willing and able to facilitate a 3pm kick off with 7,000+ Newcastle supporters having their big day out as Blackburn seems to be for them.

http://www.rovers.co.uk/documents/14th-march-2016195-3045348.pdf

Lynsey Talbot told the Fans Forum in March that the police 'stipulate' an early kick off time if the whole of the Darwen End is handed to the away club. So how come there's no such 'stipulation' this time round?

As ever the club just doing what they are told whilst the real power is held by Sky Sports and the police whilst Blackburn Rovers supporters are right at the back of the queue.

Unless of course Venkys are unwilling to pay for extra policing when Sky Sports aren't here??

[Lancaster Rover]

The only people who can actually stipulate anything are the council who are the licensing authority. They will obviously take advice from the Police, etc but games going ahead at certain times are down to them issuing the license after being happy that any safety/logistical concerns are met.

[JHRover]

The only people who can actually stipulate anything are the council who are the licensing authority. They will obviously take advice from the Police, etc but games going ahead at certain times are down to them issuing the license after being happy that any safety/logistical concerns are met.

So Lynsey Talbot and the club lied in the Fans Forum meeting then.

I suggest that whoever comes on here that is on the Fans Forum raises this subject for the agenda for the next meeting as to why the story has changed so much since last season and why all of a sudden the club are able to host 7,000 away fans at 3pm when they themselves said they weren't allowed to last season.

They were very clear on several occasions that the police advised/stipulated that the games against Preston and Leeds had to kick off early on the basis that we were giving them the whole Darwen End.

[tomphil]

Rovers in lying to fans shocker ! Who'd have thought.

Can't even blame Venkys for that but i suppose it's their hollow ownership that leads to the nobodies on the ground calling the shots like Charlie.

The club and the local police/council all wee in the same pot but the biggest issue in this one for me is the pricing. No chance of getting back lost fans or pulling in casuals with an A+ tv game under current circumstances.

[Lancaster Rover]

The Police may well have advised the licensing authority on kick off times, they can't stipulate it though, it all rests on the licensing authority. Look at the mess at West Ham, where you have a licensing authority passing a game that the Police disagree with. It just happens that Lancashire CC and Blackburn w Darwen work very closely with Lancashire Con.

[Daremz]

Finally back in Holland after a long weekend in Newcastle with 5 friends.

About the match: I think we started really positive, putting Newcastle back. Balance of the game changed after 20 minutes, when Newcastle started to get more into their passing game, although not really threatening. Half-time came at just the right moment. Second half we started off good again. Best thing to see was that we chased them down in midfield; over the years the most goals I saw us concede were because of opposition midfielders who could walk 50 yards with the ball and then scoring from the edge of the box or putting through that killer pass; Lowe and Evans did a great job in that opinion this saturday. Centre of defence was very solid, no-nonsense defending. Upfront especially Graham worked his socks off, well done. Fellow countryman Emnes gave us that little skill & pace to prevent Newcastle coming 'all out', keeping men back. Brilliant goal by Mulgrew to seal it, amazing, and think we deserved it. Newcastle had 2 real good chances (Ritchie & ?) but for some reason kept on putting high balls into our box, which suited us well on the day.

About the atmosphere: best I've experienced in my trips to the UK over the last 6 years. Away-end started off in really good voice, went a bit quite during first half but second half was amazing, especially last 15 minutes. Three of my friends were in the home stands and said the noise was amazing, they felt bad they chose to be in the home end. The friends who were with me in the away-end had the experience of a lifetime.

About the aftermath: Newcastle was amazing and it feels so good when your team gets an away win; you feel like a king walking around the pubs & clubs during the evening/night. #happytimes

About the sunday: the pre-booked trip included a boat-return, hotel stay, match tickets (home end, of which I converted 3 to away-tickets) and a St. James' Park Stadium Tour on sunday. Nice tour, but guide made one big mistake in her story...: "Alan Shearer scored 206 goals for Newcastle but dissapointingly never won a trophy while at St. James' Park"...- "WHERE DID SHEARER - WHERE DID SHEARER - WHERE DID SHEARER WIN THE LEAGUE?!" was the logical reply. Other nice touch was getting into the away dressing room (back to the 80's...), where there still was a team-sheet and notes hanging on the spots where our players were sat on saturday. Nice memorabilia which I ofcourse will store in my Rovers-archives! Back on the boat wearing the blue-white halves never felt so good; lots of the Dutch football tourists complimented the away-travelling.

Try to come over two or three times every year, this was by far my best awayday with Rovers. What a great experience, thanks to everybody involved - finally some Rover-pride restored!

[Steve Kean's Hypnotoad]

In my opinion sooner or later as a fanbase we're going to have to come to terms with our new situation.

We're a small Championship club with poor attendances, huge debt, no money and zero potential to increase our revenue except through top-flight TV money, which a very risky investment even when you're buying a potential powerhouse like Brighton or Derby. Venkys don't want to sell, nobody wants to buy us, and if someone did then the smart option really isn't to start ploughing money in to a Rovers-type club for all the reasons I just mentioned.

We were walking a tightrope throughout the 00s. Whilst countless other clubs our size and even significantly bigger toppled back into oblivion almost as soon as they got up there, we paced on for 9 years, miraculously held up by an exceptional chairman and 3 exceptional managers. But that's what it was, miraculous and precarious in the extreme. Spending 80-90% of club revenue on players wages, having to consistently make money in the transfer market, slashing ticket prices to keep gates above 20,000, always one bad manager away from serious danger.

Some fans understood that, realised how much we had to lose and how quickly it could all be lost. Some didn't, took everything for granted, bleated about style of football, chanted "4-4-2" during matches and banged on about how they weren't renewing their season ticket and would rather see us playing passing football in the Championship than this hoofball rubbish.

Well, careful what you wish for eh. Goodbye promotions, cup semis/finals/wins, european campaigns, top 6 finishes and a conveyor belt of talent so good it was a privilege to watch them play. Hello passing football and what the vast, vast majority of other clubs our size have been doing all this time, winning, losing, meandering up and down the Championship/League 1, not really doing anything, not really going anywhere.

Its a very bitter pill to swallow (hence me finding it tough to ever leave the Allardyce thing alone!) but as a fanbase we're gonna have to swallow it sooner or later and get used to the concept of celebrating an away win at top of the league as though its the highlight of the season, cause the stark reality is it will be most seasons from now on.

[Lancaster Rover]

I'm sorry but we're 12th in the all time top flight points table, the idea that we'd never been anywhere until Jack came along is nonsense. We have a very successful history and have been a top flight club for many more years than we haven't. Yes, we are now struggling in the championship but I cannot be doing with this revisionism about this being our natural level. It's utter tripe.

I fully understand the excellent financial balancing act that was taking place but ultimately that is a chief execs job, the same was being done at West Brom, Stoke, etc, etc. We were in no different position to 60% of premier league clubs but that's the nature of the game. We had no divine right to be there but lets no kid ourselves that we hadn't earned the right to eat at the top table, we were a well established long serving premier league club with a rich history of top fight football. We are where we are now and yes we must accept that but lets no revise history to make out that we are some tinpot club that punched above our weight.

[Mattyblue]

Sobering view SKH.

Due to canny management on and off the pitch we entered this decade as a comfortable top flight club. For our club of our resources and fanbase it was a hell of an achievement.

However, TV money, though large, was not at the eye watering levels it is at now- if the Walkers had a bit of patience and foresight, the mantra of 'nobody makes money out of clubs like Blackburn Rovers' and looking to sell for peanuts would have been blown out of the water. Debts could have been paid down and if a relegation did occur it wouldn't be the complete finanical horror ours was.

The £20million the Walkers received could have been £70million, with many more suitors. It was much easier to keep yourself in the top flight than trying to get back.

Look at clubs that were relegated in a less monied era with big debts- Sheff Wed, Leeds, Forest. Decade and a half out of the top flight (with stints in League 1 to boot).

Football is changing rapidly around us. The Championship is now packed with city clubs and/or freshly relegated cash rich PL clubs, when we were promoted in 2001, we were one of the big boys, the league was full of the likes of Tranmere, Stockport, Walsall, Port Vale, Grimsby, Crewe etc.

20,000+ crowds are becoming the norm at a time when our crowd has been decimated- yes it is Venky's fault, but our abysmal income is a reality, 10,000 crowds with cheap STs is where we are and with Venky's seemingly unmoveable, the lost fans arent coming back, so how do we compete with clubs with double, treble our income (owners that care, a board and decent managerial appointments would help- but you get my drift)?

We picked completely the wrong time to self-destruct and it drives me crackers just thinking about what has been thrown away.

[JHRover]

In my opinion sooner or later as a fanbase we're going to have to come to terms with our new situation.

We're a small Championship club with poor attendances, huge debt, no money and zero potential to increase our revenue except through top-flight TV money, which a very risky investment even when you're buying a potential powerhouse like Brighton or Derby. Venkys don't want to sell, nobody wants to buy us, and if someone did then the smart option really isn't to start ploughing money in to a Rovers-type club for all the reasons I just mentioned.

We were walking a tightrope throughout the 00s. Whilst countless other clubs our size and even significantly bigger toppled back into oblivion almost as soon as they got up there, we paced on for 9 years, miraculously held up by an exceptional chairman and 3 exceptional managers. But that's what it was, miraculous and precarious in the extreme. Spending 80-90% of club revenue on players wages, having to consistently make money in the transfer market, slashing ticket prices to keep gates above 20,000, always one bad manager away from serious danger.

Some fans understood that, realised how much we had to lose and how quickly it could all be lost. Some didn't, took everything for granted, bleated about style of football, chanted "4-4-2" during matches and banged on about how they weren't renewing their season ticket and would rather see us playing passing football in the Championship than this hoofball rubbish.

Well, careful what you wish for eh. Goodbye promotions, cup semis/finals/wins, european campaigns, top 6 finishes and a conveyor belt of talent so good it was a privilege to watch them play. Hello passing football and what the vast, vast majority of other clubs our size have been doing all this time, winning, losing, meandering up and down the Championship/League 1, not really doing anything, not really going anywhere.

Its a very bitter pill to swallow (hence me finding it tough to ever leave the Allardyce thing alone!) but as a fanbase we're gonna have to swallow it sooner or later and get used to the concept of celebrating an away win at top of the league as though its the highlight of the season, cause the stark reality is it will be most seasons from now on.

Poor attendances

Huge debt

No money

No potential to increase revenue

All the outcome of criminal mismanagement over 6 years. Nobody to blame for that other than Venkys and their associates. Before they tipped up we had all those things and they've ensured we've lost them all. When they do finally clear off it will be the job of the next owner, hopefully one fit for purpose, to restore the above.

We aren't a small Championship club. Our gates have dropped down to the bottom end for reasons way above and beyond people not wanting to watch Championship football. I know a number of people who have stopped attending because of these owners and their friends. We've been getting 14,000 crowds for 4 years running despite mismanagement and Venkys, which by any measure is a competitive number of fans. If the club had been run properly then who knows how many more we could have had on top of that.

I don't accept our 9-10 years in the Premier League was miraculous or gravity defying. In fact how was it any different to what the likes of Swansea and West Brom are doing today with similar/smaller crowds?

We had to consistently make money in the transfer market because we had owners who weren't willing to invest any money. Hence losing our top managers and players every season and running up a £20 million bank debt. If we'd had owners prepared to back the likes of Hughes and Allardyce with decent money, like most owners would do, then the story could have been very different.

We had the fortune of excellent management brought about by Jack Walker and were able to carry on doing their jobs free from interference. We've got Jack Walker to thank for those foundations. Its just a shame his trust got greedy and wrecked it all in pursuit of a pay-day.

We aren't in the state we're in today because of our fanbase, size, revenues or anything else like that. We're in this state because of the owners, and until they clear off or make a complete change in their ways then we'll continue to flounder. We can be successful again but only when the club is run properly. That means a chairman/CEO, a proper strategy, football people making decisions rather than sinister Indians hiding in the shadows.

Until we get the above then it doesn't matter whether we've got 5,000 fans or 25,000. We'll never succeed and its got nothing to do with the number of people turning up or perceptions about our status in the game.

[MCMC1875]

Sobering view SKH.

Due to canny management on and off the pitch we entered this decade as a comfortable top flight club. For our club of our resources and fanbase it was a hell of an achievement.

However, TV money, though large, was not at the eye watering levels it is at now- if the Walkers had a bit of patience and foresight, the mantra of 'nobody makes money out of clubs like Blackburn Rovers' and looking to sell for peanuts would have been blown out of the water. Debts could have been paid down and if a relegation did occur it wouldn't be the complete finanical horror ours was.

The £20million the Walkers received could have been £70million, with many more suitors. It was much easier to keep yourself in the top flight than trying to get back.

Look at clubs that were relegated in a less monied era with big debts- Sheff Wed, Leeds, Forest. Decade and a half out of the top flight (with stints in League 1 to boot).

Football is changing rapidly around us. The Championship is now packed with city clubs and/or freshly relegated cash rich PL clubs. 20,000+ crowds are becoming the norm at a time when our crowd has been decimated- yes it is Venky's fault, but our abysmal income is a reality.

When we were promoted in 2001, we were one of the big boys, the league was full of the likes of Tranmere, Stockport, Walsall, Port Vale, Grimsby, Crewe etc.

We picked completely the wrong time to self-destruct.

But John Williams went public in the press about how the Premier League would be light years away from the Football League in revenue terms in a few years with soon to come TV deals and still the Walker Trust chose to sell.

#VenkysOut

[Mattyblue]

But John Williams went public in the press about how balancing the books would be easier in a few years with soon to come tv revenues and still the Walker Trust chose to sell.

Indeed, so short-sighted and we are all paying the price.

[JHRover]

If the club was even remotely interested in revenues then they would have a capable and experienced Commercial Director running things at Ewood drumming up increased sales of advertising boards, executive boxes etc. etc.

The fact we don't even have a Commercial Director says it all.

Nobody at Rovers can complain about revenues when this area of the club has been neglected for 6 and continues to be neglected.

Nobody can really make sound judgments on our 'size' as a club on the basis of revenues when the club treats this aspect as an irritating distraction.

Meanwhile all our rivals hire clued up executives on six figure salaries who have contacts and build up networks with businesses. Hardly fair to compare us to other clubs is it?

[Mattyblue]

Not fair at all JH, but the longer this lot stay, the further and further away we get from that club we 'used to' and 'potentially could...' be.

We all know we 'could' still have crowds of 16000+ in this league with the finances and corporate income that goes with it, but because of this regime...we don't. We could have a boardroom fit for purpose like we had for decades...we don't. We could have owners that care...we don't. We could have appointed proper managers... well you get my drift!

We've haemorrhaged fans at a level that I believe will be difficult to recover from - 23000 home fans at Ewood to about 7000 in 5 years. For a club with our limited fanbase and demographic challenges within the town, many have been lost for good with nobody to replace them.

I don't disagree with anything you say about this wonderful club JH, however as the owners show no sign of finally fecking off, we are now a club that has an income that wouldn't see us as anything special in League 1, that is the reality of what they have done.

[JHRover]

I agree with that, but for people to say 'we can't compete' on the basis of our 'size' as a club or our revenues i don't think is right.

Whatever it is we are doing we are doing it with our hands tied behind our backs. Discussions about our capabilities fan-base wise and revenue wise to other clubs can surely only be relevant if/when we behave like other clubs.

As I say, the fact that this lot don't even see the need for a commercial director at the club means talk about how much money we make meaningless. If they aren't going to take that area of the club seriously, then it isn't fair to compare us to rivals in this league who have had the benefit of experts and capable staff working for years to develop solid corporate sales etc.

Of course we can't compete revenues wise with some other clubs in this league. Some people think that's because we're little old Blackburn Rovers in an impoverished town suffering from unique demographic changes nobody else in the UK suffers from. I personally think its far more to do with sustained neglect and negligence that can and will be rectified once these crooks depart.

The only real silver lining is that because they've neglected this area of the club for so long and wrecked it so much it is now costing them more to sustain the club, meaning more pressure on their shoulders.

[Stuart]

Sobering view SKH.

Due to canny management on and off the pitch we entered this decade as a comfortable top flight club. For our club of our resources and fanbase it was a hell of an achievement.

However, TV money, though large, was not at the eye watering levels it is at now- if the Walkers had a bit of patience and foresight, the mantra of 'nobody makes money out of clubs like Blackburn Rovers' and looking to sell for peanuts would have been blown out of the water. Debts could have been paid down and if a relegation did occur it wouldn't be the complete finanical horror ours was.

The £20million the Walkers received could have been £70million, with many more suitors. It was much easier to keep yourself in the top flight than trying to get back.

Look at clubs that were relegated in a less monied era with big debts- Sheff Wed, Leeds, Forest. Decade and a half out of the top flight (with stints in League 1 to boot).

Football is changing rapidly around us. The Championship is now packed with city clubs and/or freshly relegated cash rich PL clubs, when we were promoted in 2001, we were one of the big boys, the league was full of the likes of Tranmere, Stockport, Walsall, Port Vale, Grimsby, Crewe etc.

20,000+ crowds are becoming the norm at a time when our crowd has been decimated- yes it is Venky's fault, but our abysmal income is a reality, 10,000 crowds with cheap STs is where we are and with Venky's seemingly unmoveable, the lost fans arent coming back, so how do we compete with clubs with double, treble our income (owners that care, a board and decent managerial appointments would help- but you get my drift)?

We picked completely the wrong time to self-destruct and it drives me crackers just thinking about what has been thrown away.

I've been saying this for some time.

But...

The completely unpalatable part of this is that it is within our current owners' gift to change things around and to put right their "mistakes".

They do not and will not. That for me is why they simply must leave. This Summer is going to be very interesting indeed.

[tomphil]

But John Williams went public in the press about how the Premier League would be light years away from the Football League in revenue terms in a few years with soon to come TV deals and still the Walker Trust chose to sell.

#VenkysOut

That's why they poured all their stock into staying in the Prem and paying higher wages than 2/3rds of the others and even questioned whether the academy money would be better poured into the first team. Thing is their plan worked and would have continued to do so as long as we could have flogged a big player every 3 years to pay the overdraft down.

Even more odd why those taking over didn't want to carry on that plan and even invest a bit to keep it going.

Of course we know the answer = Asset stripping to pocket percentages whilst running it on TV/Gate/Corporate income and debt. Now here we are 6 years later an almost empty shell and 100 mill in the red. They must love it when a plan comes together !

[Exiled in Toronto]

In my opinion sooner or later as a fanbase we're going to have to come to terms with our new situation.

We're a small Championship club with poor attendances, huge debt, no money and zero potential to increase our revenue except through top-flight TV money, which a very risky investment even when you're buying a potential powerhouse like Brighton or Derby. Venkys don't want to sell, nobody wants to buy us, and if someone did then the smart option really isn't to start ploughing money in to a Rovers-type club for all the reasons I just mentioned.

We were walking a tightrope throughout the 00s. Whilst countless other clubs our size and even significantly bigger toppled back into oblivion almost as soon as they got up there, we paced on for 9 years, miraculously held up by an exceptional chairman and 3 exceptional managers. But that's what it was, miraculous and precarious in the extreme. Spending 80-90% of club revenue on players wages, having to consistently make money in the transfer market, slashing ticket prices to keep gates above 20,000, always one bad manager away from serious danger.

Some fans understood that, realised how much we had to lose and how quickly it could all be lost. Some didn't, took everything for granted, bleated about style of football, chanted "4-4-2" during matches and banged on about how they weren't renewing their season ticket and would rather see us playing passing football in the Championship than this hoofball rubbish.

Well, careful what you wish for eh. Goodbye promotions, cup semis/finals/wins, european campaigns, top 6 finishes and a conveyor belt of talent so good it was a privilege to watch them play. Hello passing football and what the vast, vast majority of other clubs our size have been doing all this time, winning, losing, meandering up and down the Championship/League 1, not really doing anything, not really going anywhere.

Its a very bitter pill to swallow (hence me finding it tough to ever leave the Allardyce thing alone!) but as a fanbase we're gonna have to swallow it sooner or later and get used to the concept of celebrating an away win at top of the league as though its the highlight of the season, cause the stark reality is it will be most seasons from now on.

It took Paul Ince just 17 games to show how precarious the situation you outline was. I think it inconceivable that Allardyce would still have been here now - he wanted to leave even before Venkys - and I also think it much more likely we'd have got another Ince/Coyle/Rosler etc etc than a Hughes. Venkys has been an unmitigated disaster but I don't believe we'd still be pottering along in 12th place without them. 12 clubs have been relegated since we went down and I don't think it obvious back then that we'd do better than Villa or Newcastle.

[47er]

We were a stable presence in the Premier League, a well-established top half unit highly regarded throughout the league, when Venkys became the new owners.

One factor meant we had to replace Hughes, the absolute refusal of the Walkers to back Jacks dream. They even cut the £3M per year Jack gave the club to compensate for our lower attendances. Wouldn't even replace Savage when he broke his leg! And the same factor made Sam look elsewhere.

Venkys a disaster but let's not forget who sold the club to them and why and let's not forget what went on before.

Walker family have got off very lightly. We could and should be still in the big-time with shed loads of money coming in.

Any regrets Walkers?