Venky’s, HMRC…The Plot Thickens ?

[Guest]

Question is, if the club is taking out loans, what income stream are they relying on to repay them? I thought we were brassic

Sounds like an episode of Can't pay, we'll take it away, or 'Steve, it's the Bailiffs (again)' (C4 repeat)

[Rogerb]

1 hour ago, lraC said:

 

Is this company a venture capitalist? 

Anil Kumar Pitalia is.

[wilsdenrover]

5 minutes ago, Shirley Crabtree Wrestler said:

Question is, if the club is taking out loans, what income stream are they relying on to repay them? I thought we were brassic

Sounds like an episode of Can't pay, we'll take it away, or 'Steve, it's the Bailiffs (again)' (C4 repeat)

 

[tomphil]

As has been said before when it comes to the use of fixed assets, selling or borrowing against, it is rarely good news for a football club.

Usually a short term sticking plaster to a long standing problem and once all options are exhausted it's curtains.

Won't happen overnight but it will happen eventually barring a promotion or relegation and massive cutbacks.  

[JHRover]

Not to worry, I'm sure the 'great communicator' honest Steve will be along shortly to explain what this is all about and allay any fears or concerns among the fanbase. 

After all, this is the Club that claims to value communication with its supporters and the CEO who was being hailed by many fans for his 'honesty' in sitting down for a comfortable interview with in-house media a couple of months ago.

[tomphil]

I'm still seeing fans saying nothing to worry about owners are loaded and it's all perfectly normal for a football club to be doing this.

Mushrooms !

[Upside Down]

Where would we be without venkys?

[wilsdenrover]

11 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Where would we be without venkys?

I know this was a rhetorical question but I’ll answer it anyway 😁

I’d say:

best case = roughly where Brighton are

worst case = roughly where Leicester are.

  

[Rogerb]

Don't see any good coming of this for the club. Where venture capitalists spy an opportunity it is for the benefit of their investors.

[47er]

3 hours ago, tomphil said:

As has been said before when it comes to the use of fixed assets, selling or borrowing against, it is rarely good news for a football club.

Usually a short term sticking plaster to a long standing problem and once all options are exhausted it's curtains.

Won't happen overnight but it will happen eventually barring a promotion or relegation and massive cutbacks.  

Yep. Looking like the beginning of the end to me. At some point someone demands their money back.

Then its players  and staff not paid on time, players sold, points deducted, relegation  etc. We 've seen it all before.

Its taken Venkys years but we are well on the way to become another Bolton.

However, Bolton have recovered and so will we.

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Yep. Looking like the beginning of the end to me. At some point someone demands their money back.

Then its players  and staff not paid on time, players sold, points deducted, relegation  etc. We 've seen it all before.

Its taken Venkys years but we are well on the way to become another Bolton.

However, Bolton have recovered and so will we.

With venkys it will be more like Bury.

[lraC]

10 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Sorry to ruin a great post…😆

Based in Coventry, have had connections with the company, who have placed a charge on the STC and are called Badeshite. Who exactly are they Steve and can you explain the long term plan please?

I’m sure there is nothing to see here. 

[Wheelton Blue]

Wasn't there a new finance guy appointed recently? That seems too coincidental to me.

[roverblue]

Mentioned this earlier in the thread and it seems to be coming true, if Venkys cant send over their usual £5-6m every few months then we have to find it from somewhere.

Seems like we are going down some shady routes to get our hands on it though and the penalties/interest on stuff like this could end up being horrific. Especially if this is just paying to put the heating on and pay HMRC etc.

Feels like we are in the end game with Venkys now unless this legal stuff quickly resolves itself, they clearly arent able to send the cash over anymore.

Concerning that the club havent addressed the latest legal issues, I saw a few fans got invited in for a chat with Waggot does anyoe know what was said?

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

Yep. Looking like the beginning of the end to me. At some point someone demands their money back.

Then its players  and staff not paid on time, players sold, points deducted, relegation  etc. We 've seen it all before.

Its taken Venkys years but we are well on the way to become another Bolton.

However, Bolton have recovered and so will we.

Boltons demise began in similar fashion with training ground / car park sales etc when like you say money had to be paid back.

So we now have a no doubt huge bank overdraft that Vs can't pay down in the usual fashion, training ground rent plus new borrowings and i think there might already have been a high interest loan being paid ?

At some point you feel the proverbial will hit the fan the last time we were in a similar position there was Cairney, Rudy, Hanley, Duffy and Marshall to sell.

What this time ?   We've already done the training ground thing because they didn't manage to sell the asset they paid 7 million for to develop and sell !

Edited October 24, 2023 by tomphil

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Wasn't there a new finance guy appointed recently? That seems too coincidental to me.

If he is there company finance man then surely he had a hand in the use of company money buying things it shouldn't have ?

That bodes really well if he is now involved here, a guy from an Indian business scrabbling around in an industry he's no idea about looking for UK based money.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, roverblue said:

Mentioned this earlier in the thread and it seems to be coming true, if Venkys cant send over their usual £5-6m every few months then we have to find it from somewhere.

Seems like we are going down some shady routes to get our hands on it though and the penalties/interest on stuff like this could end up being horrific. Especially if this is just paying to put the heating on and pay HMRC etc.

Feels like we are in the end game with Venkys now unless this legal stuff quickly resolves itself, they clearly arent able to send the cash over anymore.

Concerning that the club havent addressed the latest legal issues, I saw a few fans got invited in for a chat with Waggot does anyoe know what was said?

My meeting in on Wednesday 22/11/2023.

[philipl]

I am seriously concerned by this latest development.

[lraC]

29 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Boltons demise began in similar fashion with training ground / car park sales etc when like you say money had to be paid back.

So we now have a no doubt huge bank overdraft that Vs can't pay down in the usual fashion, training ground rent plus new borrowings and i think there might already have been a high interest loan being paid ?

At some point you feel the proverbial will hit the fan the last time we were in a similar position there was Cairney, Rudy, Hanley, Duffy and Marshall to sell.

What this time ?   We've already done the training ground thing because they didn't manage to sell the asset they paid 7 million for to develop and sell !

We will no doubt find out, way after the event, so it could already have happened. It is if and when we hear that the players haven't been paid that we realise how dire things are.

My guess is that this will happen, before the end of the year and I still think the website being down, the phone lines being down and the closure of the Blackburn end and even the close of one of the refreshment points on Saturday, were all due to cash flow issues.

[philipl]

2 minutes ago, lraC said:

We will no doubt find out, way after the event, so it could already have happened. It is if and when we hear that the players haven't been paid that we realise how dire things are.

My guess is that this will happen, before the end of the year and I still think the website being down, the phone lines being down and the closure of the Blackburn end and even the close of one of the refreshment points on Saturday, were all due to cash flow issues.

If you are drifting into cash issues, things like the web site and phone lines going down are the controllable issues you DON'T allow to happen.

[Sweaty Gussets]

8 minutes ago, philipl said:

I am seriously concerned by this latest development.

Why?

 

[tomphil]

4 minutes ago, lraC said:

We will no doubt find out, way after the event, so it could already have happened. It is if and when we hear that the players haven't been paid that we realise how dire things are.

My guess is that this will happen, before the end of the year and I still think the website being down, the phone lines being down and the closure of the Blackburn end and even the close of one of the refreshment points on Saturday, were all due to cash flow issues.

I think some or all of that is classic Waggot stuff.

Top end of the operation will always lose tens of millions and the Indian finance men are trying various slippery ways to plug the gap.  Meanwhile poundshop Steve is wriggling around at the bottom end saying look look iv'e saved 750 quid on matchday expenses, i'm doing my bit.

All a bit pointless in the grand scheme of things and pissing off your core support is totally counterproductive but something that doesn't resonate with him as long as he hits a target and guarantees his own wages.

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, philipl said:

If you are drifting into cash issues, things like the web site and phone lines going down are the controllable issues you DON'T allow to happen.

Distant and detached ownership yet again being the major obstacle probably.

If a bill suddenly needs paying due to an oversight or contract change/breach but there is no money or immediate authorisation to spend it then we run into problems.

Days gone by one of the directors or chairmen would just foot the bill then claim it back or waver it.  Not now, can't see Suhail or Steve fishing out the credit card and saying 'i got this'.

[arbitro]

In all honesty I stopped worrying some time ago about these owners and the way they run our club. It seems every few weeks there is something new to derail the club despite the fact the football side is as good as it's been under these idiots. When they gave Kean a new contract instead of sacking him it was probably the biggest message to fans about how the club would go and now if seems, albeit thirteen years later that things are coming to a head. If we somehow overcame this latest disruption there will be another coming along soon. We might have to take a step of two backwards to go forward if they do pull the plug but I'm ready for that and I think that 8-9000 hardy souls would do the same.

Responsible owners - never in a month of Sundays, they have done more damage to this club than anybody could have imagined. Remember the 'absolutely respect the legacy of Jack Walker' pledge. That alone drives my hatred of them more than any other failure they have bestowed upon us.

I just wish they would go and crawl back under the rock from which they came.

FOV.

 

[JHRover]

I'm not too sure of impending armaggedon myself.

Whilst it clearly cannot be in any way a positive development I don't think it is the first time we've had to resort to this sort of thing.

I suppose the key question is whether this is a temporary stopgap whilst issues are resolved or whether it is a desperate step along a new road where the owners can't or more likely won't put any more cash in.

I remember stories previously about short term loans being taken out to meet overheads, but we came through it.

I've long suspected that the owners have effectively separated 'the club' e.g. the day to day operation of Ewood and Brockhall, from other funding e.g. the wage bill and playing squad.

One thing they've always seemed fine doing is paying wages on time and that includes carrying a hefty playing wage bill together with all the club staff. You're talking millions and millions a year. I seem to recall, not sure if it has changed, that people were paid from the Bank of India. There have never been any rumours or suggestions of people not being paid on full or on time.

Yet at the same time I've heard countless stories of no money in the kitty to do anything, even relatively minor tasks down at Ewood and Brockhall, even down to very minor and inexpensive things. The lack of investment in Ewood Park is testament to that. It appears to me that the owners won't or can't put in the cash for things such as maintenance, infrastructure, routine outgoings but have always been fine to carry their wage commitments.

It's an odd situation but I don't think anything new. In the midst of all this you've the likes of Waggott and Cheston having to find the cash from elsewhere to keep the lights on and the show on the road and then stunts like this.

Clearly we need new owners and soon but I'm not convinced this suggests a major issue. I expect a year from now it will be the same old story.