Championship 24/25

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

5 wins in 25? Yeah, fans of any club would be calling for his head.

Watford burn through managers but they want instant success. Not sure what giving Cleverley another 25 games will achieve if he only managed 5 wins in his last 25, he ain't turning that around.

Looking at it, it seems like its 5 wins in 24 unless there is a cup game in there.

But yeah, exactly. The "give him time" brigade always come out in force after a sack in and obviously Watford already have a reputation. But he got a full season and results over a prolonged period were really poor, and finishing 14th was seen as a disappointment.

I can understand why you wouldnt deem him worthy of blindly backing him going into another season and agree in particular with your last paragraph.

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

5 wins in 25? Yeah, fans of any club would be calling for his head.

Watford burn through managers but they want instant success. Not sure what giving Cleverley another 25 games will achieve if he only managed 5 wins in his last 25, he ain't turning that around.

Want instant success so where the re investment last summer in the squad where key players were sold. Their squad is mid table quality with little quality. 3.5m spend and 30m in sales

Far too overreacted there  

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But that doesnt answer why you have taken so much offence upon a manager and club to which you have no affiliation towards to the extent that you are wishing (or at least echoing Elliott Jackson's wishes) them to be relegated in the immediate aftermath.

You can't answer whether you are STH this past season or even renew so you are no position to question anyone else!

Edited yesterday at 13:23 by chaddyrovers

[Wheelton Blue]

29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Want instant success so where the re investment last summer in the squad where key players were sold. Their squad is mid table quality with little quality. 3.5m spend and 30m in sales

Far too overreacted there  

You can't answer whether you are STH this past season or even renew so you are no position to question anyone else!

What does it matter to you if someone confirms or denies whether they are a STH or not?

Perhaps they just want to keep their own private matters....errr private.

[davulsukur]

29 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Want instant success so where the re investment last summer in the squad where key players were sold. Their squad is mid table quality with little quality. 3.5m spend and 30m in sales

Far too overreacted there  

You can't answer whether you are STH this past season or even renew so you are no position to question anyone else!

If I'm being perfectly honest, I don't know the in's and out's of their squad, or what sort of quality (if any) they have. However the owners/board/whoever, have determined that a 14th place finish isn't what they were expecting with the squad they have and so, Cleverley gets the bullet. 

Unless he's got a starting 11 that is total dross, 5 wins from 25 just isn't good enough and he clearly isn't getting enough out of what he's got.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

We see. 3 head coaches in 2 years. Maybe stop over reacting and trust the person who keep you up and back him with some signings

Cos they constantly sacking their head coaches and it was only 3 and half months their owner publicly back him? What change? They said Cleverley was bright young coach who could the success they want. They spent around 3.5m on transfers with sales of 30m

Back to lowering standards bollocks again. 

Why don't actually back their head coach and give them at least couple of seasons in charge and build a team. 

Changing managers with regularity has not done Watford too much harm over the years. They've been an established Premier League club for much of the last decade which for a club of their size and resources is impressive. When they've been out of the PL they've been either pushing for or getting promotion from the Championship, mid-table being the worst.

Changing managers regularly has worked perfectly well for Forest - in the last decade they worked their way through Warburton, Karanka, O'Neill, Lamouchi, Hughton, Cooper and now Santo and they've shot up the leagues under a ruthless owner who wants success quickly.

I could also add clubs like B*rnley, Sheffield United, Leeds, Leicester, Southampton to that mix - gone through a high turnover in managers in recent seasons, yet continued to be relatively successful getting promotion to the Premier League.

'Stability' is basically another word for 'jam tomorrow'. Don't expect results today, but we've got a plan and it will come to fruition at some point in the distant future. For now lets 'build' on a road to nowhere. It all sounds good and in theory it is good but we have negligent unfit owners who will never allow any construction to be finished because they'll pull the rug out from under the staff's feet. 

We saw it under JDT - he came in late, and in his first season in England had us in the top 6. If he'd have been backed he probably would have got us into the top 6 and possibly promoted. We saw it under Eustace - he came into a terrible situation, stabilised it and in his first full season had us in the top 6. He was undermined and forced elsewhere. The reasons those two did well was nothing to do with them having 3-4 years to 'build' or being given time to settle in. They had an immediate impact and could have taken the club somewhere if it had wanted to go. Shame it doesn't.

We will get another round of 'build' and 'stability' talk this summer which is basically telling fans to shut up, expect little and wait for tomorrow to never come whilst people like Waggott and Gestede continue to profit from the dismantling of the squad and occupy jobs they shouldn't have. 

Give me a ruthless decisive owner who wants his club to get somewhere and quick over this gang of charlatans. 

[roversfan99]

You would only surely give a manager an extended period of time if they have shown enough to warrant it. We know from experience that slides in form arent necessarily all down to the manager, but he hasnt been sacked after a fraction of a season, hes had a full season and its not been a particularly good one.

They clearly have ambitions to make the top 6 in an average league and its not like they just missed out, they finished 14th. Having a bit of ambition and saying we are miles away here, thats a big gap to bridge next season so lets try and change a huge variable (the manager) days after the season has finished to give him the full summer has some sense to it.

Even if their squad is deemed mid table standard, and that is subjective, the aim surely is to find someone (like we did before we fucked it up for ourselves) who can get more more from them than the sum of their parts.

Cleverley was a young appointment from within, and perhaps has settled things down but is he the man to do that? Results suggest not.

[London blue]

2 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

What does it matter to you if someone confirms or denies whether they are a STH or not?

Perhaps they just want to keep their own private matters....errr private.

It's his way of ranking supporter validity.

No ST, no opinion.

[DE.]

If they hire an experienced manager with some level of past success then you can understand the decision. It's ruthless but if they're doing it out of an ambition to give themselves a better chance of getting in the playoffs next season then fair enough. How many other Championship managerial posts would Cleverley get? 

[chaddyrovers]

to @davulsukur point on Watford's quality, well we watched them not long ago at Ewood Park didn't we? If you just look at that squad on paper is mid table at best with little quality and I would say their best player is Giorgi Chakvetadze who didn't play at Ewood Park. Their squad doesn't say playoff candidates at all but lower mid table at best.  @roversfan99, looking at that squad, does it really say we should be pushing for playoffs and be higher than 14th in the league. 

@JHRoverto your point over changing manager and other clubs having success by constant changing head coach ever 6/12 months, I wouldn't agree at all, That lot down the road had Dyche for a number of years and had stability and identity of play. Kompany was there for 2 years and now at Bayern were he just won the league. Southampton having 3 different head coaches over 1 season cost them their PL status in 2023 and then they gave Martin the tools to get promotion but then sack him a few months later cos he wouldn't change his philosophy. Southampton were never going to stay up realistic but coming back down and then backing the PL parachute and then building a squad for promotion next season. Take the pain this season and then come back stronger next season and get promotion again. 

I think Watford would have benefit more by backing Cleverly and let him bring in 3 or 4 quality players this summer to help them challenge the playoffs next season. Backed him instead of sacking him, you said he is bright young coach back in January so wasn't that the case now. 

2 hours ago, DE. said:

If they hire an experienced manager with some level of past success then you can understand the decision. It's ruthless but if they're doing it out of an ambition to give themselves a better chance of getting in the playoffs next season then fair enough. How many other Championship managerial posts would Cleverley get? 

Norwich last week were linked with a move for Cleverly to be their next head coach. 

4 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

What does it matter to you if someone confirms or denies whether they are a STH or not?

Perhaps they just want to keep their own private matters....errr private.

Its a simple question and he asked myself a number of questions daily/weekly and I always tried to be answer that. If he wants to keep it private fine just say that but I'm not asking him for Seat number or his full name am I. 

I wanted to keep my name off this forum but some people have posted and did result in someone hacking my social media including this one cos people posted my full name on hence why we have usernames instead of our proper names. 

[roversfan99]

@chaddyrovers there isnt much to seperate a number of squads in this league, it often takes an above average manager to get a team overachieving. See here, Eustace was doing that before we fucked it up. But what sort of attitude is it to shrug your shoulders and say we are where we are, lets settle?

Watford are almost certainly not going to shell out on top players at this level, so their best bet in cracking the top 6 is finding a really good manager.

Either way, I still cant get my head around why it angered you to the point where you hope they go down. I know Elliott Jackson said it just before you but I dont get that either. 

[JHRover]

End of the day despite all the criticism Watford's owners have proven themselves to at least be trustworthy, competent and interested custodians of their club, and they've enjoyed a significant degree of success during their time in charge. Not only that but they've refurbished their stadium, built a new stand and improved the club.

You might not personally be a fan of their hire and fire culture but you can't argue that on the whole they have had good times by their standards over the last decade.

To me it seems a pretty flimsy stick to try and beat them with all things considered. Their biggest fault being they don't give their managers much time.

You compare to the absolute disgrace and shame our owners have delivered in a similar time period, dragging the club downwards and backwards in just about every department you can think of, give me their approach any day of the week.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

@chaddyrovers there isnt much to seperate a number of squads in this league, it often takes an above average manager to get a team overachieving. See here, Eustace was doing that before we fucked it up. But what sort of attitude is it to shrug your shoulders and say we are where we are, lets settle?

Watford are almost certainly not going to shell out on top players at this level, so their best bet in cracking the top 6 is finding a really good manager.

Either way, I still cant get my head around why it angered you to the point where you hope they go down. I know Elliott Jackson said it just before you but I dont get that either. 

nowhere did I say top players like what Leeds or Burnley had this season but 3 or 4 good quality players could be the difference for them. Sacking another head coach there will achieve very little there and I'm sure in 6 months time they be sacking another one yet again going nowhere 

[Mattyblue]

So why did you want our manager sacked after a month then?

[chaddyrovers]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

So why did you want our manager sacked after a month then?

I posted my reasons for that opinion on why we should sack in the Valerien Ismael thread(got 28 likes for that opinion) and he has proved me wrong which I am delighted and 14 points from the last 6 games. start with a clean sheet next season, lets he can start the same way we finish the season

[Mattyblue]

But why did you think that in the first place as wouldn’t sacking him have achieved very little and in six months time someone else would be out too and we would be going nowhere?

Edited 19 hours ago by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

So much hypocrisy and still none the wiser as to why it would make anyone want them to get relegated.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Shocking decision by Watford. Can't build a team keep sacking a head coach. They deserved all the criticism they get and I hope they go down next season 

Hull, don't seem to learn when last season they should have stuck with Liam Rosenior, maybe they would have got top 6 this season.

 

At least they won’t be coming in for Ismael.

[chaddyrovers]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

But why did you think that in the first place as wouldn’t sacking him have achieved very little and in six months time someone else would be out too and we would be going nowhere?

Yet again Matty I posted my opinion and my reasons for that opinion in the appropriate thread

[Mattyblue]

So you’ve now decided we shouldn’t have sacked him after a month after all, not only that, to repent your sins you are now calling out and wanting relegated other clubs that still do sack managers quickly, fair enough, nothing like a zealous convert to a cause.

 

 

Edited 19 hours ago by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

58 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

So you’ve now decided we shouldn’t have sacked him after a month after all, not only that, to repent your sins you are now calling out and wanting relegated other clubs that still do sack managers quickly, fair enough, nothing like a zealous convert to a cause.

 

 

Explained why my opinion changed on Ismael and he proven my opinion was wrong. I can hold my hands when I wrong. 

You don't asked other members who had similar opinions as me. Why not ask others. You wouldn't tho. 

I have made my opinion on Watford on Cleverley sacking just like I did with WBA sacking Mowbray far too early in my opinion 

[roversfan99]

Your opinion on Cleverley being sacked is one thing, wishing them to be relegated is another!

[Mattyblue]

I’m asking you because you are the one now being all holier than thou.

You shouldn’t be saying anything on managers being quickly sacked with your track record.