not sure about anybody else (and will probably get slated here for it) , but there still seems to be alot of reporting hysteria flying about again re the game last night and the usual knee jerk rather than what actually happened. Now I am not vindicating what happened, nor naive in thinking that there where not people who where intent on causing trouble - but it seems there was more disorder rather than violence that happened There is a history between the two teams that goes back along while - playing in different divisions and not being a regular doesn't help either - so there was always going to be a tense atmosphere in and outside the ground and exacerbated by the way the game actually pannedd out (Millwall (underdogs) away from home take the lead) goading then a late equaliser from the Hammers - emotions run high in Derby games - pitch invasions are not unknown and I know it still doesn't make it right but they do happen and especially in highly charged games. I'm only going off what I have heard and read ( both sets of fans and stewards), and even on the BBC wedsite to quote Malcolm Clarke Chairman of the FSF says "It's important to get to the bottom of it but too many hysterical over-reactions don't help" By all accounts it was a Millwall fan that was stabbed and listening on the radio from fans and in statements is not as bad as being made out and was a series of events that just escalated. An investigation may prove otherwise but there has been mention of overcrowding at the Tube station with no trains being stopped/ held back- for anybody who has been on the train/tube to West Ham will understand this which led to the initial disturbance with the police outside the ground, there where not enough Police or Stewards , the initial 'disturbance was just the usual stand off and goading with a police line and items (paper cups , coins being thrown) until the police broke the line trying to clear up and seal off streets which is apparently when Millwall fans managed to get through the police and sporadic fighting did take place. Disturbing and frightening for the majority who went no doubt (1 person getting stabbed is one too many), and also for the residents in the area and although it shouldn't happen there appears to be a lot of condemnation without back up or understanding of what really went on.

I have the ticket - still complete!! Not sure why I ended up not going - it was my 18th Birthday - think it had something with people chickening out and was left going on my own. Always enjoyed trips to the Den for the run the gauntlet except for a game with an unknown Mr Sheringham at the time. I have the ticket - still complete!!

Although I am not doubting it , I find the bit about the blank stare a bit strange AESF as Billy is certainly a very chatty person - and welcomed comments but not in an impolite manner (whether he took them on board only he can say). As I have posted previously, I have been out of my way to have a chat with Billy previously on a few occasions as I didn't like the aspect of the drum full stop nevermind the incoherent tunes, would be interesting to know if anybody else did in an amicable way. With regard to JW & TF I tend to agree but it would appear they can only go on what they probably hear from certain sections of the fans with that certain section probably being the ones that don't complain if you get my meaning. Adding to that how many have actually expressed their dislike to the club? What we should not forget is that Billy has followed the club for many a year even before the drum and at the end of the day is a True Blue. I agree I hope nobody else takes up the mantle of another drum but at the end of the day he was only doing something that he thought contributed to the atmosphere - if those that didn't agree showed as much effort towards generating one then there would be no need for anybody to even think about a drum again.

Excellent BB I think there is journey in this as a good and catchy modern tune My contribution ''HEAR THE EWOOD BELLS START A RINGING ROVERS CAVALRY CHOIR IS SINGING ARTE ET LABORE OUR WORD AND SHIELD AS THE BLUE N WHITE ARMY TAKES TO THE FIELD VILLANUEVA IS OUT TO SLAIN YOU KNOW HE’S GONNA SCORE EVERY GAME HE’S GONNA RULE EWOOD (THEN) KING CARLOS WILL RULE THE WORLD OHOH… OH..OH…OH''

Was in the Everton End directly opposite the Rovers Fans as where many other Rovers Fans - never seen so many Rovers in the 'home end'. Everton fan (brick ..... house) directly in front of me went mental when we scored and many in the stand jumped and cheered - and so early on as well. Very enjoyable and tense - after that first 10-15 mins Rovers where awful and virtually none existent in their gameplay - the nerves where beginning to show.

The reasoning for my thinking is just a play on factor of colour being a major thing to throw back at the media - its irrelevant and shouldn't be picked out ie first black british manager

'Up above the streets and houses Incey's climbing high Everyone can see him smiling ... blue and white Paint the whole world with an Incey!!!'

Unlikely Parson, I thought he was a midfielder. Also travelled with the first team to the Portsmouth game by all accounts R6 - think you need to channel you argument to why we are not producing anybody of real talent.

Something I totally agree with you on here Theno , and have been saying the same for a while.

Fair do's licker as you see alot more of him than what we do, but I think we all know that its the same for alot of players (and teams), including your very own Lescott . However, and this is nothing to do with media /tv reputation reporting but what I have seen myself and I'll admit I ain't no Johnson fan, but I didn't see anything different with him on Saturday to his palace (hate them) days, and he still goes to ground far too easily (you certainly don't see the likes of Owen etc doing the same). How he is anywhere near the England set up is beyond me - but that is just my opinion. As for Wiley, as some have already posted, there where a fair few Rovers fans cringing when his name was announced as the ref as he does seem to find cards easy to wave at Rovers players however he was bad for both teams and moreso you Toffee men, and dare I say it Johnson in particular. I don't know what its like for you guys at Goodison, but trying not to look through blinkers we feel justified to say we get a raw deal more than alot of clubs from the officials - including some very very very blatant decisions going against us.

Why - he's not been given a steady run of games playing up front to be able to prove himself. Once Hughes stops playing him out on the right and gives him his chance up front then give him judgement. Personally I think we have a gem , and given the chance will prove it.

Not just the Premier League - but at most games nowadays it will be the away Fans making the most noise. The reason that people think there is atmosphere at the bigger grounds tends to be because of that particular reason - that there are more fans there- but if you go as an away fan you tend to find the only noise they make is when they score a goal. The only ones - from experience which tend to be half decent are West Ham/Spurs and Portsmouth. Each club has its own problems and can be equally as good or as bad as each other - Rovers are no different.

Agree Abbey And in answer .... exactly what used to happen with the teddy bears (and scarves sometimes)

Maybe she is Theno but unlike Eddie says from his Cafe over there in 'gay Paris' or where ever he is, we can all plainly see the effort just isn't there. I posted the other month that something is not quite right with Morten - he is looking really abject and the moment and dis-interested and IMO he looks ill, so whether he is or not we may never know until it is confirmed, but what is blatantly obvious is that he should not be be in the matchday squad at the moment on his current form Can't say I have heard any consistent stick for him either when he has played, just the general moan when he continuously performs as he has been doing over the last 12 months. There is out of form and out of form - to me something is seriously amiss with our Norwegian popstar.

The surreal thing about it though, it seem to take a while before any of the Rovers fans realised we had been given a penalty. Then when we did there was just an overall general malaise feeling that he would miss because of the way we were playing. Still doesn't take it away from the fact it was a very poorly executed penalty though.

Totally in agreement here Bobski - and as I have posted in the match thread and you have stated - so many people just knew he would miss it.

Certainly not on your own Rev - note the flags at England games in the past and still nowadays - probably the reason why you see more of the lower league club fans at the games Rev. If you watch teams that are good at getting and retaining the ball, there is usually a predictable formation of potential receivers relative to the player in posession/opposition player to be disposessed. It allows for the glanced look out-ball which creates the sort of fluidity of movement which the ponderous stop and look for options characterising England's play always lacks. That sort of pressure play formation has never been an aspect of McClaren's approach whether at Boro or at England. Philip - you mean exactly like Croatia where - this is the point I have made re the 5 in midfield malarkey - Rovers where the same when we played it - maybe not as stagant but certainly not fluid. I never see the point when you should supposedly be the dominant ( home side) and to me the 5 man across midfield should only be adopted if you are away from home and needs must ) and never use in an important game if palyers are not used to it!! Interestingly, listening to Radio Lancs somebody else said what I have posted about players not having the intelligence to take a game by the scruff of the neck and are just waiting for orders from the touchline - which is why they always look clueless

Totally agree here Paul but I'll come back to this point in a minute. Not into this blaming Carson malarkey as any keeper could have made the same cock ups last night - as Robinson has done already in games and James has shown numerous times in the past. Yes it was the wrong decision to play him considering Robinson has been the number one keeper for the campaign but herein lies the problem. Consistency - Mclaren has ###### about with the team so much its no wonder nobody looked like they had a clue what was going on , and as mentioned before on here many times - the bloody stupid 5 man midfield tactic! at home!! WHY???? - There where strikers on the bench capable of doing a job - why adopt a style that they are not used to as a team - and probably most as players - doesn't give the other players much hope or motivation if your manager doesn't even have confidence in you. Now back to Paul's point - this is something I have mentioned before and the 'tactical' game that I feel is poisoning the game - alot of managers don't have a plan B, most players do not have the confidence nor the nous to try and insert some influence on a game if things are going wrong and just follow the instructions - hence you end up with a debacle like last night where all the players look clueless - and this is not unique to the England set up - its a modern theme for some strange reason. The only thing to blame for the whole joke of an escapde is the entire England set -up (on and off the pitch) and the state of the game in general and the amount of money washing around in it.

Not according to the Chelsea fan I know - said he was against Leicester in the cup (as he should be) but otherwise pretty average despite scoring at Wigan. Anyway, as many already think - they are both top midfielders on their day with loads of experience and playing for two of supposedly the best teams (opinion) in the World - there should be no reason why they cannot play together - personally I don't think they are like for like, both have good attacking attributes as well as defensive but that's about it which all good midefielders should have anyway.

If we ever consider selling Pedersen I think that Miller chappie at WBA is worth looking at, although he does seem a bit all left footed

In addition TND , England aside, this can be and has been said about alot of things throughout the game over the past few years to date. The game is run by a collective group of numpties - and the amount of money flowing throughout the game has only gone to make it worse especially at the top with the 'poison' slowing dripping its way down the levels.

He's not fighting a battle philipl , just stating the point that what alot of us got lambasted for, for having the insight to question his attitude and not be blinded by the goals, although welcome. Not once have I or any other critic said he had to run around like a madman, this was just brought up by those who thought he could do nothing wrong. Only Tris has raised good points previously for us critics as he has above , to which I have counter replied with explanation as have others. What Hughes is doing/has done is only what some of us suggested, and by the look of his second half performance on Sunday and his previous sub appearance, would appear to be doing the trick.

Not quite TND as ths support thing would apply to many a club - how many did Birmingham bring? As I and others have said before - last night might have been cheap but there is not as much money to go around to sepnd on Football. I for one could not afford to go last night even at the cheaper prices as I have other commitments for my monies. Its not considered an important aspect from the Clubs either looking at the teams put out across the board over the 2 nights so why should fans treat it any different? Bar certain clubs and maybe certain games the draws serve up, traditionally its never reallya good crowd drawer anyway.

I have been one of the biggest critics of Benni on here, but thought he had an ok game upto his substitution yesterday - but have to agree with Abbey on his straight down the tunnel exit. - also think Hughesy needs to explain the principle of the offside to him. As Eddie states we just don't appear to know what to do with ball. On top of that we need to cut out the defensive mistakes we keep making.

There weren't no clarets in the Moorings - it was full of Rovers What had happened is just before the convoy of Rovers fans - a convoy of Burnleh had just been marched up and they where holding you back to keep 'the distance' between both sets of fans