Today or Tuesdays result doesn't change the fact that he deserves to be potted

I came on here thinking everyone will be discussing the appalling refereeing today (for both sides) and mowbrays poor management (as per) and I'll have a rant about how poor I thought Sam gallagher was today up front... but it turns out you've all beaten me to it. He was terrible today, truly. I'd advocated him getting a run through the middle as he ain't a winger but you know what maybe he's just rubbish? I think for me the crux of his problem is he doesn't anticipate anything, zero instincts in and around the box which also leads to poor decision making. His next biggest problem is his poor touch. Then today he could barely stay on his feet and didn't put himself about to the degree he usually does. I've said he needs a run of games through the middle and that's still true but todays performance was so bad that we need to fast forward to plan c and try brereton through the middle and butterworth on the left. A 2/10 performance

I've seen mowbray talk about 23/24 year old like they've just come straight out of the womb.

05/06 the lonsdale / lonsdale kit. Great season, bad kit.

Would 100% take Neil

You would think they would leave a space just in case a free agent came on the scene

I would've been happy with him on loan. Would fit in quite well to the team, would be ready to contribute straight away, doubt there was a chance we could've bought him. Obviously we needed a permanent signing up top but I would've felt less irritated with him in.

Actually disagree on that statement. I think Mowbray does rate him. He was one I think they had high hopes for. You've got to factor in with Butterworth he has had some really bad injuries and has missed close to 2 years of football. Mowbray chucked him in last game of the season 18/19 and he looked good in his 45 mins but then his injuries started. They renewed his contract despite these injuries and mowbray was very quick to bring him back into the 1st team squad last year when he got back to fitness, chucked him on against stoke. He also played a lot in pre-season, maybe somewhat out of necessity but he prioritised him over players like Vale and McBride. He has given him a few some time this season off the bench, some of which he has looked promising (swansea) others he has looked well off it (Morecombe). He could've started him in the Morecombe game but he still got 45 mins there. I actually agree with ToMo in that it would've been better for the lad to go to League 1 and play every week till January, he's 22 and barely played any 1st team football. He shows promise but with injuries and no experience these are inconsistent. But they haven't loaned him out so we should use him off the bench a tad more, probably as a 'false 9' (please shoot me) or just off Gallagher. If he isn't getting game time in the 1st team then he needs consistent run outs in the 23's.

Kaminski was kaminski last season, won poty!!! Defence is marginally stronger. Left back stronger, ayala is fit but if he isn't then it isn't. Midfield completely disagree. Weve added Clarkson who hasn't impressed thus far and buckley is a year further on however weve lost holtby, trybull, downing (all useful) and bennett. Weve also lost the boy wonder elliott and weve nothing similar. We lost a 28 goal a season pacey striker and replaced him with nothing. The squads added 2 completely untried wingers, khedra and poveda with only the latter likely to threaten the 1st 11.

I agree with the go after waggott bit. Still think you'll split the supporter base with that. Some seem to think that the we are a well run club.

Loaning butterworth out till Xmas would be ideal really. The lads missed so much football, he's better off having a consistent 15 starts somewhere else. He'd only get the odd cameo off the bench here. The lads shown he's got something but his cameos have been very hit and miss. Needs to find some consistency on loan

Wouldn't be In a rush to start Clarkson again In such an advanced position. Some nice touches but largely anonymous.

Its a bit meh for me. On one hand Its another body through the door, another option to unlock a defence, probably a better option then Chapman (despite 2 decent cameos recently). On the other Its money and game time going to given developing a player whose growth isn't going to benefit this club. He isn't the finished article so a chance he could disapoint. He's not going to push us to promotion like elliot could've done.

Yeah I agree. I don't think he's going to go somewhere else and start up front in a team that likes to press like we do. For example if he goes to Bournemouth he'll get that extra 5-10k a week he wants but he won't progress sitting on the bench.

I imagine when the salary was discussed he decided it wasn't quite for him

Where do we realistically need? A centre forward A winger Cover at centre half Someone to challenge/ cover pickering at left back. Do we need another centre mid? We have travis davenport Rothwell buckley Clarkson Johnson

Was just using an example. Tbf King started when they won the league Cup in 2008, helped them get champs league for example which he wouldn't have been able to do if his play hadn't been managed. The guy didn't train for years only played games, I'd wager that Ayala doesn't train much either.

I'd take the opposite view here. Hes been good in the games he has played so far. If he can only play Saturday-saturday games then so be it. He's more useful to us fit then injured. There's no point risking him breaking down because standard expectations are that a 30 year old centre half should be able to play more than 1 game a week. Imagine if for example spurs had taken that approach with ledley King he'd never have lasted as long as he did. Ayala is a special case and needs to be treated as such.

I think that's a false argument really. If we'd say spent that money on an actual centre half we still would've allowed Wharton to go out on loan. Loan in a player isn't the only way to loan out a player.

To me that's an example of where it didn't work out. We failed to sign a proper centre back and settled for what is in hindsight an expensive stop gap. We signed tosin on a decent wage and played a loan fee of over 1 million pounds. He was great in that year, I really rated him but what did we have to show for it? No asset to sell at the end, another place in the squad to fix in the next summers window driving more resources away from other areas. If we'd have finished anywhere near the playoffs that season then it wouldve been worth it but we didn't. See Douglas last season. See the panic loan of Walton the season before.

The way these deals are weighted means its very cheap if the player starts every game. But if he doesn't we will pay a lot more of his salary.

Felt sorry for dolan today. Played as the centre forward against a huge back line and all we did was hoof the ball up to him. Its said a lot but should be said more that gallagher playing that deep on the football pitch is still bizarre. He's not half as bad a player as mowbray tries to make him. He has pace but doesn't have the tight ball control to beat players in those positions so why he continually is asked to do so is beyond me. Was very vocal in criticism of the back 5 vs morcombe on Tuesday but it worked better here and gave us more of a platform to complete. Some other thoughts: Rothwell played well and is becoming very important so let's hope that knock isn't too serious. Butterworth showed some spark which he didn't show on Tuesday and I think there's a player in Carter, he may not be the finished article but he is certainly ready to compete at this level and compete he does, he is very much up for the battle. I'm still not convinced brereton will get us a ton of goal from open play but he today attempted to take the weight of the team on shoulders and wants to be the main man which is good to see.

Ideally we sign a long term fix at centre half and send both out on loan. Mowbray hasn't done that before so it's unlikely he will do it now. So it's likely it will be another premier league loan. Could be costly like tosin or could be someone very young and raw like branthwaite. Ideally we need 4 centre half's. Lenihan is prone to an injury and suspension and ayala is rivalled by vince grella in his injury proneness. Wharton is coming back from a serious injury and probably won't be available till October at the earliest. Nyambe can play centre half but there isn't another right back in the squad. Carter needs to stay at ewood till January, the most important thing is having cover, he will likely get game time here which will aid his development. Magloire might not be upto standard but he needs replacing. I just don't see the point in bringing in a premier league loan. A short term fix at best, at worst you are losing points developing someone else's player. One of the reasons I renewed my season ticket was the hope of watching us develop our own players. We ain't getting playoffs or better so as long as we don't go down then now is the time to do it. I think Mowbray should put a little more faith in Carter.

Probably go with the same team from Saturday or one change being bring Davenport in to give more solidity in midfield. Not sure who I would sacrifice for that though

The frustration is we went fullish strength and went out. I for one wouldn't be critical at all if we had played Pike, cirino, davenport, mcbride, etc. So we only managed to learn one or two things. Carter looks ready to me to play a part. Looked comfortable on the ball, confident and physically ready too. Magloire probably isn't quite upto standard. I doubt we will see him again, some instances of good defending but looked out of place especially with his distribution. Butterworth didn't show anything at all last night which is a shame as his cameo vs Swansea was very promising. Pickering does some things well, he can cross for example but will need time to get upto the pace of things, can tell he is used to doing things a bit slower. He also won't be the most dynamic full back in the world.