He's a clever snake I will give him that. Linking criticism to expectations of winning the premiership (even though that has never been the case for any manager) means that all criticism will be regarded as unreasonable and unrealistic expectations of fans. Cunning and immoral. If he showed half as much nous outwitting the opponent as he does trying to save his skin, we'd do a lot better though.

I don't really swear but TM can fuck right off after those comments. So many posts on here already highlighting how appalling these comments are. Reminding us it's not 1995 - y'know I've not held that against Souness or Hughes and all have given me some of my best times as a Rover. And when I've been pissed at managers from Hartford to Ince - the standard was never 1995. To remind us of this is insulting and a deliberate attempt to discredit any dissatisfaction. Doesn't wash though Tony. You aren't just confirming you are a a crap manager you are a crap human being. As for the aim is to compete nonsense I've got a number of issues with this. It's a vague unaccountable standard that ensures you cannot be pulled up for your inevitable failure. More to the point given your previous comments you think competing is losing 1-0. Well, no shades of 95 but even under the circus of Venkys that is an unacceptable, unprofessional and incompetently low bar. So just fuck off Mowbray and take your conmen with you. Not been this angry since Kean. Congratulations for getting me there.

My thoughts on this too. Because if connection is key that excludes competence because anyone competent would not connect well to TM. Anyone competent would be asking "what the hell are you thinking" and "what a stupid idea" when TM comes up with gems like 5 million for Gally or a 3 year contract for Ayala. Can't imagine that would do much for the connection. Personally though I think it's a message saying it's going to be a yes man for me that gets it. I'm still calling the shots.

Hardly ambitious I admit but personally I think he does a decent job in central midfield, lots of energy. Add in his versatility and I think he is worth keeping as a squad player. The fact we need to replace all of this season's outgoings - loans and end of contracts - plus get a bit more depth in defence and possibly an Armstrong replacement also factors into my thinking. That many players will be very hard to do, so its one less in an already busy summer. The Mulgrew debacle taught us that even a bad something is missed when not replaced at all.

It would certainly raise eyebrows from me too, but it's their decision to make. Besides Sam found a use for Andrews so most things are possible with a competent manager. All that said if it were me I wouldn't keep any bar Bennett for an energetic centre mid squad filler (and even then it's touch and go.) As it is the process of discovery for the new chap, if there is a new manager coming in, will head into next season.

You missed a few other tick boxes. Loved by the media irrespective of ability - tick Likes to utilise top 6 loan kids - tick Spends big money on strikers he can't get a tune from - tick. Ideal candidate if ever there was one.

Well I'm not sure what worries me more. Firstly that we want to keep Bell. If that's the standard we are looking at, even as squad players we are asking for trouble. But even worse Bell thinks he can do better than us. That is a damning indictment of how low we have sunk (as you say.) Talk about struggling, that's terrible.

He's proved to be not very good as a manager. He'd fit right in here. Can't see us changing managers but if I were Lampard Rovers is the most attractive of the betting options. If it goes south he can blame it on the owners, it's practically a free hit. Anywhere else he would, y'know be judged and have to perform (both from within and externally to the club.)

Absolutely after the six straight losses there was nothing to keep him on (although imo he should have gone way before then anyway.) Not sure what 1 win in 15 tells you that 1 win in 10 doesn't. If they decided he was to go can't see any reason whatsoever why they would keep him on, but then logic does t apply to this lot. It's definitely a missed opportunity if he is going - as you say the new manager could have assessed his squad. He might even have wanted to keep some of the out of contract player or bin those who have been offered contract renewals. It's a crazy way to do things. So even if they do get it right in sacking him, they have got it wrong in missing a golden opportunity to give the new man a huge advantage.

Mental is the word. Thing is is it any more based out of reality than saying Rovers fans expect a rerun of 95 or saying Graham was the fulcrum of the team when he scarcely played last season or that we need to acclimatise to the championship. Many of his comments aren't based in reality. And that's assuming he hasn't got an agenda like trying to suggest he is the victim in this situation, giving the impression he was willing to continue even if mutually agreed they should to their own way. Gallant Tony willing to continue z owners trigger happy kind of vibe. I wouldn't put it past him. Then again who knows. The problem is we are using logic and there's very little of that at our club these days. Maybe one Rao wants him gone, another doesn't. Maybe the rumours are bull. Maybe they have lied to TM and told him he will continue. One thing for certain in all this, is Rovers are bat nuts and anything could be going on.

Lol. Mind you: Falling upwards. Incompetence and in a position above his station. Surrounded by other crooks. Since the glove fits perhaps there are parallels. We could do with an AC 12 style purge on our club too.

Thing is BDS with the club we are that is exactly the sort of thing that could happen. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

I think my preference would be for loans like Armstrong with an option to buy, or failing that exceptional talents. Too many youngsters have come here, been mediocre at best to our detriment. Palmer, Brathwaite, Walton - all one way benefit and not in our direction. I struggle to believe we couldn't buy just as good a quality, albeit probably older, who would last more than one season and be an asset on our books. Another issue I have with loans, especially in defence, is there is no continuity or consistency. We've had 2 loan left backs in 3 years, a loan keeper and 3 loan centre halves. Where's the continuity in that? How are they meant to gell as a unit? Then as I have said before even the successful ones are of limited benefit. I've said it before but take Tosin over Bauer - over one season Tosin is better. Long term which is better for Rovers, the solid good quality championship centre half. The final issue I have with all this is it's sticking plasters over wounds. Plasters they are ripped off every summer. "Defenders are coming" - we've needed them for three years and all for the most part it's been a series of loans meaning the problem is never properly addressed. It's a terrible way to manage a club and the antithesis of the journey we are allegedly on. Ahem, rant over. As for who we will sign it will be a few top 6 kids, which to the masses out there will prove what an amazing genius TM is. After all promising game time to youngsters is something that only a really skilled manager could do.

Not sure I agree. To me he sounds like self preservation mode. The 'reset as though the 3 years don't count', the 'I won't make excuses but then list every excuse', and the most cringe worthy 'the owners are wonderful people' articles are all signs of a man desperate to cling on to his position regardless of how undignified he sounds or how much lies he spouts. Not sure he wants to get pushed at all. His comments in that vein come off more like a child who can't cope with criticism or challenge and speaks before they think rather than someone looking to get the push. Otherwise we wouldn't have had half the bull he has spouted.

Thing is if you had to spend money on one thing in the championship a good manager would be it. The difference it makes to a club is huge. It's amazing that some clubs don't realise that.

A few thoughts on this. You have had manure and spurs complaining about fixture congestion this season, both with more squad depth then Rotherham (even factoring in it's not a like for like comparison.) So to say fatigue isn't a real factor for them seems very harsh indeed. Not surprising that it was a late equaliser that they conceded, fatigue levels must have been high indeed. Given it was so close I'd agree with those saying that it was the difference maker in them going down. On Derby no way will it count for this season, but hopefully next. Not that Sky will want that for Rooney, not that I imagine he will stay if they do get a points deduction. I've a feeling though this will take a while to be resolved.

Any CEO who let a manager continue with the run we had - or even part of it - clearly isn't fit for the job. Even if he didn't have the power to sack him he should have been pressuring the owners to do so. Sinister is the word. One thing to add to that is that we have so much form for allowing dodgy goings on to occur. In fact it's been the norm under Venkys.

Factor in how he pulls the strings on everything, including his own boss. Bit odd if he then has no say in this after that kind of clout. Then there's the fact that even if it wasn't his plan he could have opposed it or the manner in which it was undertaken (i.e. sneaking it through.)

Very possibly. That had crossed my mind but I wonder if they might pay a bit towards it as part of the deal to get Armstrong. My thinking is a loan and more goals in the championship may make him more saleable. That said I think you could well be right that he may have better offers.

Game time? Although if he is getting it and is not bumped down the queue in the summer I appreciate that is less likely to occur.

Thanks for a very well reasoned reply. Appreciate there is a lot of opinion and conjecture in this although fwiw given his clout at the club I find it impossible to think he didn't know of and at least tacitly approve of the plans. (Plus the Coventrio is a huge coincidence otherwise too!) Where I really take issue is the all managers comments can be seen as talking us down. There is a huge difference between the reality changing BS the current incumbents spouts and previous managers talking us down a bit. Not under Souness, Hughes, Ince or any manager has anyone ever said the fans are measuring against winning the PL. It's an utter lie to discredit fans. No manager has ever said we need to acclimatise to the championship as a league one outfit. No manager has ever effectively said the previous 3 years don't count. No manager has stated as many factual inaccuracies (deliberately) as him. There's a huge difference between what TM is doing and what others have done. It's a bit like comparing someone who goes a couple of miles over the speed limit with someone drink driving along the pavement. As you say though it's probably best to leave it here before I start to forget Coyle was utterly useless too. It's a poor do that the competition between the two is so fierce for who is worse and even sadder than neither make the top spot. And all in the last 10 years! Makes me amazed we still have any fans left.

I've said it a few times but it really is worth baring in mind, that being in his last year of his deal means Armstrong's fee will be much lower than hoped. It knocks a lot of value off a player being in their last year of their contract. Factor in the Newcastle sell on fee. And it looks low. Factor in if Venkys do resort to coat cutting and it looks horrific - when they cut costs under Coyle he got 0.25% to spend on transfer fees... Most likely scenario is imo Gayle on loan and £10 million from Newcastle. Of which we get a couple of millions for a transfer budget. (Otherwise known as the Boro charitable support fund.)

Hi get that none of us are saying either are good, more like a debate as to which is worse a punch in the face or kick in the balls. It's a good point that you make. With the same squad TM was doing a bit better. And that points to him being a little stronger in terms of ability. My counter would be two fold. Firstly his character and actions away from the pitch are FAR worse. Trying to sell the training ground - unforgivable. Suggesting Rovers fans were entitled due to remembering 1995 - insulting. Coyle also didn't give contracts to his mates kids and the like either. Off the pitch, far, far worse which more than undermines him being a bit better in ability (which I tend to agree with just.) Secondly it's a just/very marginally better. For starters TM still got us relegated. Secondly the limited number of games, as we saw to our cost this season, probably helps TM in comparison as there was less chance of the obligatory death spiral (hypothetical I know). Also Coyle came into an utter mess, he didn't even get a load of his recruits in till towards the end of the window. It was a far from easy start. To use an analogy its easier to come in part way through cleaning up a mess. Then of course there is this season. To be three points better off with a shed load of advantages is absymal. Utterly appalling and just as unimpressive in its own way. To be fair I doubt Coyle would have done as well as the previous 2 seasons, although with that budget and team I think he might still have got us up. but overall I think TM has shown plenty of ineptitude as a manager and blows Coyle away with his off field antics.

I'm no Coyle fan - he was useless. But he never took pops at the entitled fans or tired to sell off the training ground. Both of which make him less odious than TM. Also before we build up TM as a managerial giant I do wonder if Coyle would have done much worse than TM if he had had the backing TM had. Compare this seasons performance to Coyle's and I would say it is probably worse. 3 years into the position, £15 million net transfer spend, no enforced sales, the advantage of Covid overall and Covid and a points deduction helping us Vs relegation rivals and we are what, 3 points better off. That doesn't strike me as a better manager to me. Again not that Coyle is any good. He gave us Williams and Byrne for starters and let Duffy go awol. But if we are doing a like for like comparison I wouldn't be too confident on TM looking good.

Absolutely! I mean what are they basing all their negative assumptions on? We had a great season results wise with a bit of an unlucky run in the latter half, we've found great value for money in the transfer window with the likes of Gally, Bereton and Ayala. Our squad has both quality and quantity all over the park and as for goal threats the team is littered with them. Struggle to see how anyone can think we will do badly next season.