I think - though I know we don't have it - proper people doing the recruitment is key. Being honest I thought Souness was a busted flush after limited success in his previous few jobs. But he was excellent for 3 and a bit years for us. My point being that sometimes some managers are the right fit for a club. If you have someone smart doing the recruitment then they can perhaps match up some unfashionable or unlikely names who fit well with the club. Another example that springs to mind is Moyes who I think is a poor manager at West Ham. It's clearly a surprisingly good fit and is going well. A good CEO doing recruitment can find these right fits. Sadly we haven't got anyone competent doing the recruitment. Just read about Cook - didn't realise there was a third club Chesterfield he got promoted too. That's more successes than TM in half the amount of time as manager, and no Celtics or Coventry cock ups on his CV either. Another one we could and should have gone for.

Brilliant post. Wished the journalists employed the same critical thinking and challenged him on it.

Only if you were trying to cook in the bathroom. And you blamed the poor results on your neighbors.

Couldn't agree more. Build a team and buy what you need for the team, simple isn't it. Problem is all the team seem suited to different formations. The front line to 4-3-3 apart from Dack and Gally who may be suited to 4-2-3-1 assuming Gally is suited to anything. Rothwell and Travis could do the 4-3-3 but many of the others don't have the legs for it. Our full backs aren't suited to 4-3-3 although you can see Nayambe adjusting. Our centre backs need a more simple system too. It's a lack of thought that annoys me so much.

I would have thought you could fit Arma and Dack in the same team but surprised how reliant Dack seems to be on a target man striker. Although in fairness coming back from injury into several positions and a team playing poorly can't have helped. With Armstrong off in the summer it makes sense we replace him with a target man to get the best out of Dack. Although if we want to go 4-2-3-1 am not sure how many of the other players that suits.

Well your second reply is more substantive than the first Will tackle each in turn: First comment - there are always ups and downs. Well yes, there are but that's not the whole story is it. How big is the regression? Why the regression? the context is hugely important. Is it because of factors in or out of our control? Using education as an example, as that's my background, if we have a bad set of lessons I'd look to the reasons why we delivered a bad set of lessons/or lesson If it was stuff we did wrong, then that's not good, and needs to be improved. If it's basic stuff i or a staff member was getting wrong we would put them on an improvement plan. On the flip side it could be because of factors out of our control - maybe the kids haven't had any behaviour management, or it's the last day of term, or something bad has kicked off in the playground. Equally the severity of the problem also makes a difference. If it's a safeguarding issue for example then that is very serious and can't be wiped off as you have ups and downs. Similarly in football - why the regression, if it's down to the manager's poor tactics, formations, selections and signings, the he clearly is to blame. If it's circumstances out of his control then less so. Similarly the severity also matters - if we are in danger of being relegated, then we can't be blase about it (I don't think we are yet btw but next season looks grim). To say it's just natural to have ups and downs is flawed in any business - education, football, it's more complex than that. Secondly - we would be champions by now if we always improved. C'mon that's overly simplistic too. For starters it's not factoring in that other teams are improving or the rate of improvement. Brentford are a prime example of a club that have improved year on year but because of the level they are at, are not yet world champions. The speed of improvement, and the ability of other clubs to also improve, means it's not a simple case of leapfrogging clubs, sometimes improvements are needed just to keep up. What's the saying about standing still/staying the same means getting left behind? Hang on so much I disagree with on this too. Look at the clubs with a bigger budget - they did under Hughes and Souness, but we still gave them a fight. A bigger budget does not equate success. Also look at how clubs like Boro and Barnsely are doing, a bigger budget even in this league does not equate to success. Likewise look at bigger budget clubs who haven't done as well as their budget in this league and the prem. It's not that simple, or if it is, we may as well just pack it in. The realistic expectation is not to do with necessarily getting promotion but a) properly challenging and b) not making stupid arse-ups like the striker at right back, losing 5 in a row, chopping and changing the team and formation each game. Those I would say are realistic expectations, no divine right to the Prem, just doing things properly and properly competing. Were in the league 15 years before Jack. Well yes, but we aren't the same club in may ways as pre Jack. We have bigger revenues, a good ground and training facilities (for now) we are a completely different animal. We can't hark back to the Premiership winning days (nobody is mind) but equally the pre-Jack days are equally an era that doesn't exist. W Best thing since Venkys - yeah that's a tallest dwarf if ever isn't it? That's not a high standard, in fact there's room to be poor and this still to be the case. And he is - we've the Coventry three trying to get rid of the training ground, the team is a mess, and as for all he has done for us. Promotion from League 1 - yes. Outside of that? He's spunked away most of the budget, he's given us some shocking winless runs, the team is going to dismantle next season (Nayambe, Armstrong, Elliott and Rothwell leaving will be a bad start) he's loaded us with crocks in defence. You could argue he consolidated us as a championship club again, but that was 2 years ago. We've had chances to kick on and challenge for promotions for the last three seasons and he has bottled it. How's that everything he has done? How's that better -than how Hughes and Souness had us punching above our weight? Obviously not a like-for-like comparison, but when you consider what they achieved and punched above their weight achieving, how can you think TM has done a cracking job? I really struggle to understand this.

Well there's few enough of us, so these days so that's a start! How on earth can you be happy with TM having witnessed Hughes and Souness doing well with us? Or even Big Sam? Having witnessed Williams running of the club, having seen jokers like Ince potted when they are out of their depth? Genuine question - where are the standards? Also by that logic of some seasons you do worse than others a manager would never be sacked. Don't you think that's a bit of an odd logic?

Did amazingly with Wigan and almost kept them up in challenging circumstances and with a huge point deduction, promoted as champions from league 1. Two of the three seasons he was with Wigan he did better than TM in the circumstances. Add in a promotion with Portsmouth before that too and it's not a bad record at all. Not my first choice though but probably an upgrade on TM.

Maximum they could expect in the final year of his contract (another piece of excellent management by our owners but funnily enough it's always the player's fault not theirs) is £12 million. Maximum value imo he would be worth is about £20-£25 million under a decent length contract which must halve in the last year or so. So £10-£12 million is all we can expect. So if it is 40 percent of profit I reckon that leaves us with £8.4 million to replace him with. The good news is I think Toney at Brentford cost £9 million so replacing in and around that budget is doable. The bad news is that our last two big money strikers were Gally and Bereton, so I'm none too optimistic on a strong replacement.

Is he a Rovers fan. If so the 87 means that he would have seen and appreciated both the Souness and Hughes years so would have some idea of what proper standards are at Rovers. As for his logic - my word. How do you get to be a journalist with that kind of thinking?

Yes that was my target for us, 3 wins of which I thought Coventry would be one, Wycombe and Rotherham the other two. It wasn't good enough last time but this time I struggle to see the bottom 3 or 4 teams getting anywhere near 50 points. Not a defence of TM, just to be clear, it's shocking we are having to discuss this. I hear and share your concerns. Agree we look very unlikely to win and an absolute shower on current performances. No arguments on how bad we are. That said it is a minimum of 3 wins for Rotherham and Wednesday to catch us up, 4 to overtake us. They aren't getting masses of wins, so can't see them catching up anytime soon. Let's say these two teams have a win rate of 1 in 4, with 15-ish games to go that means it will run out of games before they can overtake us. If they get a 1 in 3 run, then it takes about a dozen games to overtake us. In this scenario 1 more win for us, or a number of draws, would see them run out of games. Being honest I can't see us winning more than a couple of games, but I can't see Rotherham or Wednesday having a better than 1 in 3 record. And even a number of draws for us makes it more difficult for them to overtake us. So yeah it's come to the crapness of the opposition and them running out of games to keep us safe. Were we talking in December or Jan I would have a different view. End of Feb with the gap we have though - it's asking a lot of Rotherham and Wednesday to overtake us.

It's been a tried and tested formula under Venkys. (And a failed one too on occasions...) That said in this case I think the bottom 3 are looking sunk. It's a hell of a swing needed and yesterday's mighty point actually took us a point further away from relegation, so still very confident we won't go down. Agree it's a shambles we are relying on this.

"The team have been very focused on trying to get positive results and I would have to say in all of the defeats I didn't think 'we deserve nothing from that'." Apologies if posted elsewhere have struggled to engage with Rovers today. But here are TMs comments from BBC (apologies for posting his drivel even if not a repeat too.) But seriously, does he really think that the previous 5 performances we deserved something from? Either he's a lying git or that's the nub of the problem if he thinks said performances are of the required level to get points.

Had this as one of my three certs to win. In fairness I wasn't totally out in assessing the opposition as they only managed a draw against us. Getting worried now - for this season that is, not for TMs reign I've been worried about that for years...

Genuine question Joe - given the manager says he is a man of integrity but also says stuff like Nayambe debacle (lying/contradicting himself multiple times and blaming the fans) how are we supposed to respond?

For a second I thought you were championing Djokovic. Tbf he couldn't do a worse job at the moment...

If Tony could park the bus as well S he throws players under it our back line would be unbreakable.

My take on it too. Too much quality against a weak non-established Championship team. TM will make it harder than it ought to be but the players' quality will win through. I have this as one of our three just win games to avoid relegation. And i think it will happen.

Hard not to agree with these posts. As stated a ton of contradictions. Beginning to use his family as a shield - where have we seen that before? It gets more like the beginning of Venkys reign every day. Utter lies. You can't say that you don't feel the pressure whilst putting an article out saying you don't feel the pressure and using every non footballing reason to justify yourself as possible. Fwiw I know a ton of guys who are great father's and work very hard but I don't think it entitles them or makes them suitable to manage this great club. Have we had a week where he hasn't contradicted himself? No moments he is proud of Vs very proud to manage us being today's. His second contradiction after Nayambe gate. Or third using arbitros criticising youngsters comment. Oh and when you have to tell people you are a great guy you generally aren't. Thing is we will win today giving the clown a free pass for another 6 months.

My worry with Hughes is not just the negatives on his CV but how long it has been since something positive. Time makes a hell of a difference. Contrast with Pearson's good work at Watford, McCarthy at Ipswich and Warnock at Cardiff and Rotherham all of them had recent - as in the last few seasons - successes on their CV before taking their latest role. That said we are getting to the point where any manager would be better simply by not playing loco-coco formations and seeing what batnuts position they can find for Elliott Dack or Gally. Good thread though. Made me think about some different candidates.

What a load of bull. 4 years to assemble a squad and he gets a free pass. And the implication that no manager could do better. What the hell has he done to warrant such fanatical devotion?

Agree Aside from the defence, and with the caveats that a) players are played in the right place and b) they aren't rushed back from injury, then yes it's probably a top 6 squad or just outside of it. Sure some of them are a bit limited but in the right system, under say McCarthy, playing to their strengths they should do well. On their day many of our players look good. The issue is their day isn't that often. A good manager could increase this. Imagine if Johnson upped his good performances from 1 in 4 and wasn't stuck at CB. Holtby on his day can be excellent. Gally has shown glimpses of being a good plan B on occasions through the middle (sadly glimpses only). Rothwell in the middle has looked more promising. If Travis and Dack weren't rushed back they are both good players. Armstrong and Elliott are doing well despite the mess. Lenihen with the right partner has looked good (the rest of the time he looks gash). Heck even a defence of Douglas, Lenihen, Warton, Nayambe - which we could have put out for a bit - doesn't look too bad. Problem is the players, the formations and the positions they play in all change regularly so it's no wonder there is no consistency. They are on easy street with TM, it's not a meritocracy for places, there's no pressure on any of them. It's no wonder they don't perform as well as they can in such circumstances. Put it this way - I'm certain that s better manager would get a lot more out of them and I don't think Bristol or Cardiff or Stoke or Boro's squads are any better than ours yet they are knocking on the doors of the playoffs.

Yeah it's a fair point, the last 5 were winnable. The lack of fight is a worry and I do think that will cause us trouble in games Vs the bottom. And it is something you see in relegation sides so I totally get and share your concern. But the flip side is we do have quality and there is a lot of dross in this division. We have got points in games we have played badly in. So I don't think three wins is an unreasonable or even unlikely in 15 games, even with the handicap that we have.

Oh aye, teams fighting for their lives in the last few games is just what we need! What you want for the final few games is teams already doomed or mid table nothing to play for on the beach. That sounds a bit harsh as I agree with your point! Just that I don't think I want all these relegation scrappers to be our last few games as this team has zero fight in it. Think the next three games are key. All winnable, Reading having a wobble, Coventry aren't great and Millwall average. 4 points from that I think will take us a lot closer to safety and worrying about next season instead. Personally I think we will get about 4 points from those games before losing the next 4 - which all look very daunting - to make for an interesting finish. That said I think 3 wins plus our 10 point buffer at the moment will be more than enough to keep us up. Wins Vs Coventry, Wycombe and Rotherham - all immensely doable - will mean the bottom three need to win 6 or 7 of the final 15 games to catch us. That means they need to win roughly half their games which I cannot see them doing. Of course the flip side is we aren't winning at the moment. But we do have the quality to and we have picked up some wins whilst playing badly so I don't think 3 wins in 15 is an overly optimistic target even accounting for TM being a clown.

I hope (and think) this is sarcasm. The only players who will sign new contracts are dollopers like Evans and Williams.