Blue blood

Most impressive to me about this is that he's doing well even though he hasn't got a ton of creative support or service. He's always had the potential for this just never the consistency. I think most Rovers fans would have been happy if he had upped it to 1 in 3 instead of his previous 1 in 10 but it feels like of late he's doing much better than even that.

Armstrong challenging Downing for player of the season? Also doing it with relatively little attacking support which goes in his favour. Biggest thing that pleased me tonight was we won against much worse opposition - something we have struggled to do Vs weaker teams over the year. Thats twice including 10 man Wensday we have taken advantage of weaker opposition. Perhaps this Achilles heel of ours is slowly fading. Not out of the woods yet, Wigan home is still fresh, but a positive sign that maybe we're working on this weakness. Good to see our other strikers get some proper game time. Good to see we can score goals even with very limited resources available. No complaints and on to the next one. Well done Rovers.

Whoopee. We have one error prone keeper instead of another. How about we have a keeper who, I dunno, doesn't make gaffes? Call me a fair weather fan but that's my criteria for a good keeper.

Well that's a hell of an admission of failure using all but the words "i screwed up." Encouraging to hear actually. Shame he didn't realise it in the first place, or being more fair as hindsight is a wonderful thing, after the Bereton fiasco. Twice was pretty unforgivable. In fact this sums up why I think TM isn't a good manager. Its not that he is incapable of learning, he just learns very slowly and is tempted to revert back to type when he is out of a jam.

No Chaddy it's not a different question, it's you defending the indefensible again. Of course quality was a factor in the original post - how could it not be? We've a ton of centre backs contracted to us through the U23s/reserves but they weren't mentioned or included because they clearly weren't good enough. Warton clearly falls into that category having not played above league 2. Heck, as Ewood points out that was your own criteria! So moving the goal posts all the time comes across very hypocritical. Repeating your point again and again does not make it right. I could state that I'm the next Alan Shearer a billion times but it doesn't make it true. People have repeatedly highlighted why it is a problem, you've ignored and not engaged with their reasoning, and can't seem to get over the fact that people see the keeper situation as a negative. Really? Have had this debate with a number of fans and the best that has been offered has been "he's not that bad" or "he's ok". Yet you go one up and say he has been good for us and I really struggle to see the evidence for that. Outside of blind loyalty to the club how can his performances be classed as good. Downing has been a good signing for us this year. Tosin overall too. Walton has been nowhere near that level, has made very little positive impact and yet you say he is a good signing. Compare with Downing, Dack, Smallwood and other Downing in League 1, and you see a huge gulf in what are generally classed as a good signing and Walton's performances. Can you honestly say he have been as good as this lot? You post some really great links which I appreciate loads but this inability for Rovers to do anything wrong and lack of engagement with others arguments - especially moving the goal posts to suit your agenda (the value of stats being another example) is pretty wearing.

If we were City and Liverpool esque assuming Sky didn't sabotage us then yes we would sell out the stadium. Tons of plastics support both clubs on top of their core fan base and no reason to suspect it would be otherwise for us. Just look at the promotion from League 1 - a full stadium. If we were winning things and battering teams I'm sure fans would come back/attend more regularly. However since this isn't going to happen I wonder what a more realistic target would be for Rovers to aim for.

Thanks for a well reasoned reply - I'll try responding in the post to help link up the discussion. Walton - the loan element is a big problem as there aren't too many benefits for us to it. But again the best I hear about him is "not as bad" which is hardly a ringing endorsement! When the debate is over how bad a player is rather than how good - and I think it would be hard to argue he has been good for us - you know that you've got a duff one. Fwiw he's not as bad as I initially thought imo but is still pretty poor. Far too many errors costing us goals, plus very few games where he has had a positive contribution. I struggle to see how he is anything but a failure given his performances and circumstances of him being here. Samuel a little bit more grey. Did ok for us a year before, but not looking like he will kick on. £500 k for a league 1 team was no small amount and one of our big 3 signings that year, so perhaps the expectation would be he would have made more of a contribution. For a 1 season, decent player I'm not sure it's a success story. Probably on reflection I'd say that's a pretty neutral transfer. Hmm not sure I agree all his signings did contribute. Hart, Harper, Whittingham and Caddis all spring to mind as not really making much odds as to whether we were promoted or not. We didn't hugely use our loans from higher table teams to full advantage. (Armstrong and arguably Antonsson aside.) A lot of the key players who carries us to promotion were already here: Raya, Nayambe, Mulgrew, Bennett, Graham, Lenihen. Could he have started building for the championship in those years - perhaps not (although to his credit Dack and Armstrong were so can't see it as a total free hit and he did ok at it.) That said given he had nearly a year and a half preparatory time pre championship with his team, he really should have been in a position to know exactly what was needed and to hit the ground running. Given we've not really challenged playoffs with such a huge prep time doesn't suggest he's doing that well or used that time effectively - especially when you consider how threadbare the squad will be next year. Perhaps disappointingly is the number of players who aren't really decent championship standard. I agree the playoff type players to give you that push were hard to get in league 1 but the rest of the squad being a solid and decent platform for them could have been. That a number of them aren't but are on decent contracts taking up wages is a problem. Smallwood with new contract, Bell, Samuel, Williams aren't really the type of players needed for a promotion winning squad. Factor in how unbalanced the squad is too and you wonder what TM has spent the last 3 years doing to be in this situation. Last season we went on the worse run in living memory and blew the January transfer window. I can't think of any manager who would have survived such a run. Also whilst the outcome was ok, the manner involving a second half of the season collapse was utterly disappointing leaving us wondering what might have been. As for this season the excuses you offer - and I agree the injuries have been terrible and a huge blow - are also criticisms of TM. He blew the two transfer windows, no one else. He is the one who brought in misfiring strikers so that we are dependant on our creative mids for goals. He is the one who has an unbalanced squad - we lucked out with injuries in the first half of the season that our paper thin defence wasn't exposed more. Injuries have made a huge difference - it would be daft to say otherwise - but had TM done his job a bit better in getting in scoring strikers or used the windows better they wouldn't have hit us quite so badly. Again this defence is a criticism of TM. He can't win against the weaker teams (you could factor in the Wigan home and arguably Brum game too - I'm not at all sure it is behind us.) Its a huge weakness of his. Am a bit torn on the increased value too. Probably overall - although we won't see that £12 mill back for our strikers - but whilst the squad has improved it is still horribly thin and unbalanced going into next season. Also whilst credit has to be given for improving our situation somewhat, given that Coyle had to sell his best players and had no money to replace them, it's not the fairest of comparisons. Also given we've had 3 seasons of TM, I do worry how slow the progress has been. Defence and up front and keeper don't look much better, if at all. Midfield is I will agree. Finally and this is a tad unfair as off topic slightly but ties into the behind the scenes stuff - am not sure we are better off. It's clear dark forces are still at work at Ewood - 3 managers from the same agency being an example of this - so I do wonder how much better things actually can be. Not TMs fault at all this one, but I'm equally sure he can't improve that situation either. Anyhow that's a heck of a ramble. TM isn't terrible and often it comes across that way in my posts. Not the intention - I dont think he is very good at all but he is a bit better than some of the non managers we've had in my lifetime. I feel that if we were a normal club with standards and hadn't been so horrifically treated no one would be happy with TM or the job he is doing.

Its not just these 2 signings though it's a raft of them. From Whittingham to Walton, Johnson to Samuel over half of TMs signings have been really poor. Factor in that the majority of the budget was spent on Bereton and Gally and they do deserve to take more attention because they are where TM has chosen to put the majority of the budget. In looking at these guys, you are considering a fair chunk of the overall picture. I think the 2020-21 squad thread shows how poor TM has been in the transfer window that next year we are looking a squad with huge holes in it - after 3 seasons and 5+ transfer windows.

Not sure Mulgrew or Johnson should count. The legs have clearly gone for both of them and being literally, physically unable to do their job means they're a total waste of a wage. Lenihen and Evans both spend a lot of time injured and have ever since they've been with us. You can count on them missing a fair whack of the season. Ditto Holtby (which is why he is with us.) Add in Dack will take a while to get up and running (whenever that is) and boy is that a thin squad. There's question marks over whether our undoubtedly talented youngsters are ready yet or whether best served by regular league 1 football. The least of the concerns with the squad but it feels like a big ask for them to become squad players within 3 months. An exciting possibility and could pay dividends but it is also a risky one. Am sure a couple will make the grade but am equally confident a couple of them won't. And that's before you even consider if any of them aren't good enough! To be in this situation after 3 years at the helm is just appalling. How anyone can look at that squad and think good job Tony is beyond me.

The answer to that one is pretty obvious...

Now Ewood that's naughty highlighting the selective nature of their stats. The narrative is we are jolly lucky to have TM and his achievements of getting us midtable in the championship is greater than anything those blokes Klopp and Wilder are doing. We can only hope no-one recognises his managerial genius and takes him off our hands. Stop being so negative and support the team.

Perhaps the most obvious result in the circumstances. Haven't seen or listened to any of it but it seems like it played out as expected - we were defensively dogged, offered little and they had the quality to edge it. Feel like there may be a number of games like this with the available squad between now and the end of the season. In the circumstances what was probably to be expected and yet despite this am a bit disappointed with a couple of decisions. 5 strikers on the pitch at once - by definition at least 2 or 3 must have been out of position. 2 of them Samuel and Bereton aren't good enough and should t be playing full stop but 5 strikers on the pitch cannot be a balanced or effective team, and by definition (unless playing 3 or 4 up top) has too many players out of position. Bereton got 5 minutes. Blimey. No one will improve on so little football. A really pointless use of a sub and way to help Bereton regress even further. Feel the rest of the season could be a bit of a slog from the reports I've heard today. With no chance of going down it could be difficult to watch/drum up interest.

So aside from managing to look poor in a 5 minute cameo (an impressive feat in itself) my main gripe is with the manager and how he has been handled. Now Bereton imo should be nowhere near the first team but if he is how the heck is he going to improve by playing 5 minutes. I mean talk about kicking a guy when he is down...

Agree. Especially given the bottom 2 don't look like picking up any points or making a decent run anytime soon. Perhaps this could encourage us to go for it a bit more as there's no real risk of relegation.

Think both are important to be fair Chaddy. Gally on the wing or Smallwood are both excellent in attitude and effort but lack ability. So yeah attitude is hugely important but talent is needed too.

Perhaps the worst thing about the players being unavailable due to injury it gives TM an excuse for not making playoffs and hides our lack of progress. Don't get me wrong it's a heck of a kicker and makes us hugely up against it. But I suspect we still wouldn't have made playoffs and TM still would have us gloriously inconsistent - all of which is hidden by the injury crisis that we have. Of course the unbalanced squad, players out of position, no January transfers are still valid criticisms irrespective of our injury situation but again I feel the injury crisis will wash said criticisms away too. Its a shame because with a fitter squad and a key addition or two given how bog awful this division is playoffs would be rather realistic, especially under a different manager. As it is our apathy and lack of nous will be hidden in an. Injury crisis giving TM another free hit of a season.

Perhaps the raft of injuries (including virtually all our creative players injured) and the fact we don't cope well with the pressure of being near playoffs. Even without thinking about league positions and even with a fully fit squad it isn't an easy game - factor in the circumstances and it is a difficult game. So yeah, there's a number of strong reasons to suggest we won't win. That said we do like being the underdog and if I am impressed by the Fulham team I'm not by their manager. So it's far from a given result. That said it's still a tricky game for Rovers. A win would be a huge statement of intent. A draw in the circumstances would not be overly disappointing. Head over heart (and even then a tad optimistic) i'll go for a 1-1 draw.

Never thought I'd say this but he's the one of the ones I fear most leaving. Other than Dack one of our most influential players and unlike Dack (with Holtby around) we have no other striker who a) plays that style which benefits us and b) is likely to get over 10 goals. Taken a while to get there but Arma is developing into a fine player.

Club still run in a corrupt manner but they have wised up to working out of the spotlight a bit more. Anyone doubt the are running the show them answer this: what were the odds of both Coyle and TM being appointed Rovers managers? Neither had recent (or much) success whatsoever and were a million miles from a championship job. Coyle I believe was linked with the Blackpool job the summer he joined us - nowhere near championship wuality.. So for both to be appointed at such unlikely odds with unlikely pedigree - far too much of a coincidence not to be string pulling. Factor in Lambert as well (although on paper a good appointment - recent success with Norwich and had managed in the Prem recently with Villa) and the chances of such appointments are just too uncanny to be coincidence. The parasites still rule the roost at Ewood. So until Venkys go we won't be rid of them. Which is a catch 22 as I'm pretty certain Venkys continue to own us to prevent any dodginess from being uncovered. Sad times.

Interesting. I read it somewhat differently. I think our annual losses for the last 2 years have been over the 13 mill a year average needed to comply so we need to redress the balance somewhat (by selling Dack or likewise)? That said I'm no accountant so could be wrong. That said the EFL are pretty weak and struggle when clubs push back so maybe the whole thing is a facade to not invest (although this is another debate entirely.) However, assuming we have to comply my limited understanding suggests we need some dosh from somewhere to fill in the gaps - much less strengthen the squad.

Sorry perhaps didn't explain it that clearly. With the FFP rules impacting 3 year periods it means that every 3 years we have to balance the books and sell our best players - a bit like we did with Bowyer. It appears we have another 3 year FFP deadline coming up requiring player sales to meet the £39 mill losses "only" mark. It seems as though history is repeating itself (the no Jan signings seems to support this, as do the accounting figures). Therefore there is only a 3 year window to build a promotion winning team and go up before FFP necessitates player sales. This is what clearly happened with Bowyer with disastrous consequences. He built a great team and then it was sold off. It looks like it is going to happen again which is why I question why wasn't there urgency to get promoted this season before this team - which I agree has been rebuilt and is stronger than what TM inherited - has to be sold off to comply with financial constraints. Hope this makes sense?!?!

I'd love to have McCathy here. Would do a cracking job imo and we could have gone for him before his latest gig. Not sure TM is our McCarthy though! £12 million plus of difference from what I can see. That said I appreciate the grass isn't always greener even though it's pretty muddy at Ewood currently. Bowyer had lost the plot but within a year we were in a worse position with Coyle and no budget. No one minded Mulgrew going and we were somehow weaker squad wise when he left. There's always another level Rovers can sink to.

Totally disagree! We have no urgency for a 3 year plan. We talk of long term build and slow and steady progress which is fine in theory - until it all has to be scrapped every 3 years! This means there is no long term build (it's undone every 3rd year) there can't be slow and steady progress because the progress keeps getting reset. So no the club isn't on top of it because their strategy is totally at odds on and off the pitch. To be on top of it the aim has to be promotion in 2 seasons of build OR lower costs to an extent that long term progress is able to happen because it doesn't need to be undone/redressed every third year. Neither option is easy and the latter not that palatable but this current approach will never work unless we get very lucky.

The article makes it pretty clear that we are close. I get the positive only but it's a bit Comical Ali when you have the accounts in front of you. It's clear from this the financial situation is poor, perhaps not clear entirely how stuffed we are/what wiggle room there is but clear enough that it is not good.

Yeah not sure how it can be read any other way. Whether that was intended is another question but: "I won't as (because) a fan" the as implies a causal link between being a fan and their actions/response. Cause and effect - I won't slate because I am a fan - the two are connected. Therefore if you do an opposite action if the response is linked to being a fan or not, the huge inference is an opposite action must have an opposite cause (as in not being a fan.) I'm basically agreeing and saying it is a poor do to infer superior fan status. It's not that ambiguous at all. Put it this way if I posted in response I wouldn't say what X did because I'm not a dick, I'm fairly confident X would pick up the inference straight away. Not saying anyone is and it's just an illustration but shows how strong the inference is. Anyway back to Holtby. Bummer. Huge loss on top of Dack. Changes the way we play in all likelihood - more likely to be trying to grind results out from now on imo. Only saving grace is we won't get relegated even with a huge and damaging injury list as we're too far gone for that.