JHRover

What are you on about now? Who has ignored injections of cash Venkys make? Yes they put a lot of money in. Welcome to the Championship in 2020. You think we are alone in relying on rich owners to fund the club? The point was and is a simple one. It was claimed that we are on the precipice and face a points deduction/relegation if we spend more money on players. I refute that. I have explained why. No club has been docked points or relegated due to spending too much money on players. They tried to get Birmingham for it this season with a second points deduction but failed, and likewise Derby got away with it too. Previous points deductions for Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham were not for spending too much but rather actions to avoid sanctions including dishonesty and not following an embargo put in place by the league.

It can't or won't come to anything for as long as FIFA, UEFA and the FA hold firm. The select few can propose whatever they like and threaten whatever they like but without authorisation from the above it can't happen. The above hold all the power. The worry is of course that the above will buckle under pressure. The FA have already demonstrated that they aren't fit to govern our national game and are by and large out of touch with reality. They could and should have kept the Premier League on a tight leash back in the 90s but relinquished too much power.

Strange way for a club to operate then. On the precipice yet quite willing to dish out £400,000 on needless wages through the summer. Something doesn't add up.

I see Bolton are broadly in favour of the proposals. Not long ago their Chairman was advocating a closed shop with them protected from relegation. Now they're in the 4th division they are supporting similar from the opposite end of the stick desperate for hand outs from the glorious self appointed leaders.

Not according to Waggott it isnt. And would a club under such imminent threat allow contract extensions for Smallwood, Hart, Samuel, Graham, Leutwiler and Tosin in the middle of a pandemic with the stadium shut? About £400,000 in wages over more than a month frittered away just there unnecessarily. Hardly the behaviour of a club on the limit.

Well actually we sold Raya which covered the majority of our transfer spending in 2019 and 2020 (Gallagher, Kaminski). The rest of our business has been loans or frees. They had a good spend following promotion in 2018, since then there has been limited expenditure in comparison to incomings. Admittedly some of those frees and loans on good money and it is noted that we haven’t sold any of our prized assets other than Raya. But to do that we would need serious interest and I'm not sure there has been much of that to date. I agree things are better now than in 2012. I wasn't saying they weren't. Just my opinion that getting worked up about FFP and potential issues down the line in the current climate is pointless, because it will certainly be put onto the back-burner and if it isnt then most of the league will be in trouble. Not just us.

No it doesn't. I've just explained that. The only clubs deducted points were for offences other than overspending. One was for fiddling their books to dodge restrictions and the other for ignoring a transfer embargo. Nobody has been docked points for spending too much on players, which was the original suggestion made as to what would happen if we signed a few more players this summer.

Coming within a whisker means nothing. They weren't sanctioned, so it doesn't matter.

Could you tell me what offences Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham were actually deducted points for? As I recall Sheffield Wednesday were sanctioned because they sold their stadium and then backdated it in their accounts in a clear attempt to cheat the system and fiddle the books. In the Judgment of the panel it was noted that they hadn't been sanctioned for spending too much. It was the way they tried to get around it. Birmingham were put into a transfer embargo yet ignored it and went out and spent a 7 figure sum on that Danish/Norwegian full back they have. In response the League took them to a disciplinary panel for ignoring the embargo and continuing to spend. Neither were deducted points for spending too much money. Nor would we be, within reason, e.g. signing a half decent left back or a couple of extra players for depth. I'm not suggesting a £20 million warchest, but increasing wages to closer to they were last season would be manageable and wouldn't result in sanctions and would give us a better chance of promotion this season. I just wish people would accept that it comes down to Venkys and not the League as to how much we spend.

Who has been deducted points for overspending re. FFP rules?

The focus should be promotion. Everything else is secondary. Sooner or later we are going to have to push things to try and get promoted. Obeying FFP rules to the letter might sound nice, but the sensible way forward is promotion asap. Medium term in this division just sees more significant losses and rebuilding following player departures.

What have Southampton and West Ham done to be classed as clubs with special voting rights? I can accept Everton given their permanent position in the top flight, but the others? Neither have done or won anything during the PL era and both have spent several years in the lower leagues. Nobody of sound mind would agree to these proposals but of course when they've got the rest of English football over a financial barrel it can happen. I'd like to know how Rovers would vote in such a scenario. Would Venkys have any input or understanding of the implications? Or would they just leave it to Waggott and Mowbray to decide how to vote? If it is down to Waggott you can be sure he'll agree to anything if it means a few more quid coming through the tv contracts every year, even if it makes promotion more difficult and survival in the top league even harder.

Of course Hughton will try to win the game. That doesn't mean he will send his team out gung ho like headless chickens to try and outscore us. He will have a plan of how to deal with our threats and keep a clean sheet knowing if that works then at the very least they are getting into good habits in defence and have stopped the rot and if they nick one up the other end then they're up and running for the season. He's a clever manager and will adapt his approach to teams depending on being home, away, and who they are playing. Start with the basics - stop the rot, stop conceding goals and go from there. All the best managers do that. Being cautious and focusing on not conceding doesn't mean he won't try and win the game. His employers won't give a stuff if it moves them up the table. Lamouchi was as dull as they come but he had them chasing promotion all last season so they were happy with it.

Do you have a pavement outside your house? Or an alleyway behind it? If so would you be happy to allow rubbish, weeds and whatever else to pile up on it making your house look like a dump and do nothing because it isn't on your property? Or would you show some pride and civic responsibility and either get someone to shift it or move it yourself? I'd be embarrassed to be honest. I also know that if I were a potential sponsor, investor etc. considering whether to put my money into the club I'd want to take guests without walking through filth and rubbish on adjoining properties. Its the little things in life. Having some pride in our home and the impression people get from it is important. Excuses matter not.

Dack isn't going to get Premier League interest full stop. If he was they would have picked him up by now. As it is he's what, 27 and spent most of his career in League One. Obviously a huge player for us that we need to hope comes back fine and picks up where he left off. But I think expecting any serious interest from top division clubs is pushing it. He is good but is he that good? The biggest worry is selling him off to a Championship rival. That must not happen but is in my view the most likely. Someone like Derby or a relegated Fulham would pay him double what we will. Invoking the 12 month extension in our favour should be nothing more than an emergency measure used to protect the club in the worst case scenario. Before that time comes we should be securing him, with his agreement, to a proper new contract. I'm not sure such things are on Waggott's agenda here though. Forcing him to stay on his existing wage for 12 months having failed to offer or agree a new deal wont be good for the player nor Rovers. It will lead to resentment and a wasted season as he ticks down the days to being sold or released.

Yeah I agree. Come January the project will be to get him shifted for a reasonable fee. That will then go for running costs. Before then they need to hoodwink supporters into believing that he has been offered a fair deal but isn't signing it. This will shift any culpability in the eyes of fans away from Mowbray or Venkys and onto Nyambe or his agent. 'Not our fault, we offered him a fair deal but he turned it down under advice from his agent' Of course the question will be whether he has been offered a deal and what sort of offer that is. By the sounds of things nothing has happened on that front.

Why are we chasing top 6? What's the prize for that? I'd rather we chased promotion and to guarantee that we need top 2. Very much doubt Chris Wilder or Neil Warnock aimed for the top 6 at the start of their promotion seasons. Think 'aiming for a top 6 push' is setting the target too low. Two clubs go up automatically - the aim should always to be one of them.

Us, Stoke, Birmingham, Derby, Bristol City, Cardiff, Swansea, Reading, QPR, Sheffield Wednesday and Middlesbrough will ALL be in breach of FFP. Most were pushing their luck to start with, having lost millions through reduced income over the last 7 months they will be in breach. I'd be surprised and very impressed if all have overheads like they do and could remain compliant without any fans for 7 months. You may well be correct on Norwich, Luton, Wycombe. Perhaps Brentford and Forest may keep their heads above water after a couple of big sales although I seem to recall that a few people were saying we couldn't possibly sack Mowbray and co. last season due to Covid and FFP yet that is precisely what Forest have just done with their manager. I'd love to see the EFL try to push sanctions through on all those clubs. Firstly if they succeeded it would ruin the league, secondly there is no way given the government restrictions and refusal to allow fans in that they can punish clubs for something they have had no control over. You can't severely restrict club incomes through government legislation at a moments notice and then turn around and sanction clubs for spending too much over their income. I suspect the barristers would eat that up for breakfast. Imagine trying to sanction say Derby after they have lost income from 25,000 fans a week and their commercial and corporate departments through no fault of their own, whilst allowing outfits like Luton off with nothing just because they've lost a fraction of the amount due to having a smaller fanbase and stadium. It can't work. I think it is foolish to adopt a strategy based upon something that is almost certainly not going to happen.

Every club is going to break FFP. Except maybe Brentford with the Watkins sale. As you say - no income coming in for 7 months = FFP failure Are they going to waste their time trying to deduct points from 23 clubs or focus on ensuring there is still a football league for fans to return to next year?

But if the owners allow it and Mowbray decides to spend it then we can afford it. How can you say you'd be against a potential signing because 'we can't afford it' when we clearly can afford it if we are doing it? You might not agree with the price but that's Venkys business. Overall we are talking about a lad who has spent his career in the middle of League One at Doncaster Rovers. Not exactly paying Messi's release clause and wages. Something seriously wrong if we are unable to sign such a player if we really want him.

Great if true. I just worry that without Mowbray there may be a void in which chaos could thrive. As you say under Allardyce and Hughes we did well at identifying these players and bringing them in. The owners ruined that with their running of the club and fair play Mowbray has worked to address it I just hope that it isn't contingent upon Mowbray being at the club and hope it will be a permanent fixture regardless of which manager is in the dugout.

That all may be correct, but I'd like to know how this investment and structure compares to other Championship clubs before hailing it as some sort of masterstroke. The fact that it has required Mowbray's input over 3 years to get to a stage where we have this network having not had one for years is worrying. Hopefully we are now catching back up to other clubs but for a club of our size and league we shouldn't have been in that position.

Hughton in the Championship 1 season at Newcastle - won the league 1 season at Birmingham - play offs with a decent European run 2 seasons at Brighton- play offs and automatic promotion. Also kept Brighton and Norwich in the top flight. Mowbray in the Championship 1 season at WBA - won the league 3 seasons at Middlesbrough- mid table 2 seasons at Rovers- mid table Relegated comfortably in his only Premier League season, also spent 18 months struggling in League One at Coventry. Hughton is a better manager. Good for Forest. An owner who knows what he wants and will do what is needed to get there.

If you or Waggott seriously believe that a 9 point penalty this season for FFP issues is going to happen then we've no hope. It isn't going to happen. And it certainly won't be the reason we will lose players on free transfers. Infant quite the opposite. Our biggest shield against FFP issues is to ensure our promising homegrown players are secured for the long term. Our failure to do this will cost us millions of pounds and contribute more to FFP risk than anything else.

When Steve retires we should look at ex employees of Coventry and Middlesbrough because I'd wager that's where his successor will be selected from. Then again they might just not bother with a CEO like they did before Waggott.