Yes.

Yes, and then we had 12k plus 3/4k walk ons. Yes, they would be higher. Crux of my whole argument, you disagree, fine, but the evidence is there… and not just here by the way, ST sales reduce, crowds reduce.

Unless we are doing really well (like recently), walk on sales don’t actually vary much year on year. On your general point, Wheelton, I agree, of course the product in previous years impacts sales. what I’m talking about is the end result of crap football and therefore crap sales on the following season’s crowds. As even if that season sees an improvement, crowds will still be lower - a direct consequence of that previous shit season impacting the crowds of the following better one, not why they’ve fallen in the first place. We are seeing this now. Some posters can’t understand why crowds still aren’t getting that high. Walk ons have risen, but we still bumbling around at c 13k, compare to 2001 - usually a standard crowd of 16/17k, why? 12k ST holders then, 8k now.

Getting silly this, you are arguing points I’m not. Of course, ST sales can and often do drop on the back of a bad season, though not exclusively, in the PL they often dropped or rose on price. Yet, either way, that season would then see an equivalent rise or drop in attendances, with often little difference in the product on the pitch. They aren’t ‘my stats’, just me perusing the published crowd figures, feel free to have a look.

I don’t think they all disappear, of course they don’t. It’s all a flux. Your argument is flawed, as you can have a better season on the pitch the season after the fall in sales, but still have lower crowds - why? Because we have fewer ST holders, and the same applies with an increase. This has been proven time after time since the 90s. We’ll have to leave it there, as you are using anecdotal examples, I’m using the actual stats. So we can’t get anywhere here.

Ha, I’ve been a sad fecker with this stuff for years! Unfortunately they haven’t been on the ball with it, sales falling down to 7k last summer is example of that, can only hope lessons have been learnt for this time.

Who knows, it’s all a flux of individual circumstances. However, the raw data tells you that with walk ons largely staying static (unless you are charging up the league), average crowds therefore wax and wane pretty much exactly with the waxing and waning of ST sales. That’s why it is so vital to push, push, push sales of them.

Not true. If one season ends with 8500 ST holders, and the season after we have 7,200, considering there is always a similar numbers of walk ons, even if we are doing a little better on the pitch or similar, the home crowd will have fallen by approximately that number in the following season. Now once you start doing really well, walk ons tick up, but they can’t do the heavy lifting of those missing ST holders. A prime example to why crowds are substantially smaller than 2001, we then had c12k ST holders, not 8k walk ons were similar. Facts are facts, no ‘guessing’ from me.

Of course they will, everyone has their own circumstances, there is always a flux of folk disappearing and re-appearing… but the facts are there to see, if ST sales fall, crowds fall.

That’s it, Beafo.

Reading Swag in today’s LT has put paid to any chance of a chance to actually attract a mega crowd in the run in with a no strings £10 game, just more bundles that attract three men and a dog over a real opportunity to fill the place for a crunch game, it’s like Oxford was all too much for them down there… ’The club are hoping for an increase for games with Millwall and QPR on the back of a £25 ticket initiative in the lower end of the Darwen End, with the prospect of a five-game bundle for the other remaining Ewood fixtures.’

.

For you maybe, I sat through two stinking performances there in ‘94 and ‘95…

Let’s just hope it is discussed again ‘in the corridors’ and a ticket deal that could actually have a stab at ‘filling Ewood’ (not this very peculiar offering) is put in place for a fixture in the run in…

Wasn’t there a bloke in the summer called ‘Jeff’ or something similar ringing up a few lapsed fans? Don’t think he lasted long…

Captain of England U17s and some Rovers U23 games.. at 16.

New deal till 2025… https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2022/february/11/he-s-a-keeper-/

No arguments there, Wheelton! Rigger - not officially, but of course it’s a regular occurrence, there’s always different folk sitting in the ST seats near me, especially for night matches, folk in my family/friends lend them out if they can’t make it etc… they aren’t checking IDs on the turnstile!

Completely different than my experience, pretty much every friend or family member that I know that have stopped coming at some point over this lost decade haven’t been back, at all. Unless for a freebie on someone else’s seasons ticket etc. But of course, there will always be a flux, some ex ST holders will come down if they fancy, just like some floaters will stop floating and disappear. But the cold facts are, if we lose 1500 ST holders, the home crowd will be down by that amount, which is exactly what we were seeing pre Fulham. We also saw it when we lost sales under Coyle, when we lost sales in 2003, and the opposite is also true the other way.

The home crowd attendance figures over the seasons categorically state that isn’t the case, as I’ve said above, when x amount of ST holders don’t renew in a summer, the vast majority stop coming entirely, which is mirrored in a home crowd reduction the following season. * Believe you me, I’m sad enough to have combed through the figures…

No, it doesn’t usually work like that. If you look at our average gates through the seasons, whatever the increase or decrease has been in ST sales that summer, the average home crowd will mirror that increase or decrease. Which makes sense, as many floating fans aren’t interested in a ST and will buy a match ticket when they fancy, with more of said floaters getting involved when we are doing well, whilst when a ST holder doesn’t renew they often just disappear entirely.

I’m always proud to support Blackburn Rovers.

Compare it to the 2001 promotion , we had about 12k ST holders then, from memory, so for a big game with say 5000 walk ons, plus away support, you could quickly hit around 20k for a weekend fixture, and we often did. Now, with so few ST holders, a 5k walk on plus aways get us nowhere near 20k. The floating fan interest is very much there, you can see it compared to pre Fulham, with double the walk ons every week compared to earlier in the season, but it is those lost ST holders that we are really missing and that is what is preventing the crowds rising to where we would like.

A million percent THIS. Just invites the opposition fans to take the piss, and gives me the impression that getting crowds of 13/14k is seen as a big achievement by the club, not a mere starting point in trying to re-build the fanbase. And as for that PA announcer… ‘the officials have agreed 3 minutes of added time’… agreed with who?! Bring back the other (local) fella, not this fish out of water southern bloke who sounds like he’s never even been to a game of football before he somehow pitched up here. But what I would say, night games pre Christmas were attracting about 8,800 home fans, so a 3k rise on that is a big positive, Boro the same, with both games on ‘proper’ Sky too. I will labour my ongoing point, crowds are rising, and rising substantially, but from a very low base due to the terrible summer of season ticket sales were we scraped to 7k. If we still had the 10k+ ST holders of not that long ago, then last night would have seen us pushing a 17k crowd which would be plenty for a second tier night game. This summer, we cannot, whatever division we end up in, have another sales debacle like summer 2021.

Indeed, so I’ll leave you to it.