Fair enough, its been a long wait for you! Since you're one who always takes the long view you're not going to lose your perspective over one game -----are you?

How have you been proven wrong? You were right and TM has left it too late to wake up!

Its never about the one game. Victories are always something to be joyful about but they don't, in an instant wipe away the memories of the last few months. You should focus on how many times Dack and Rothwell have started and wonder why?

Saw a clip recently of Jason playing for the England under-20's and near to Danny Rose! Unimaginable to think of those two in the same side. Some push on and some go backwards.

He's too slow?

Ridiculous that we should even have to be thinking about this all the same. Its not impossible that we could fail to win another point this season. The team is dying before our eyes.

I think TM has been blinded by his success in Div 1 last season. He promised the guys who stuck with us after relegation that he would stick with them. And he has---even though it was obvious some months ago that they were not good enough. Worse he's extended contacts so access to first team places is still bunged up. We run the risk of losing our best players and our young players who will soon have to think of a future elsewhere. We could lose the players who can take us forward and retain the ones who can't.

That selection on Saturday was the last straw for me. That line-up has failed over and over again so why believe something would change against Stoke? To leave out Travis and Reed from the starting line-up is beyond belief. Mowbray has lost it and won't find it again with us. Carrying too much baggage now. We have some attractive attacking players, our defence is crap. A few decent signings in summer and we are ready to go. However Mowbray is not the man to carry it through.

And women! Thinking of Theresa here!!

Hindsight?? FFS! Yours---definitely not mine.

That really is unanswerable. There really is no point giving him another transfer window based on how he's done before. I voted to give him till summer and then reassess but that was before we achieved 1 win in 12 games and ten losses. I wasn't expecting to see the season drag to an end in such a humiliating fashion. I wasn't expecting to be looking over our shoulders at the bottom three and praying they don't somehow catch up. I have no faith he can turn things round next season for the reasons benhben has given.

The way we need to pay"more attention to defence" isn't really about selection, its about the quality of defenders available. Many of us pointed out the need to recruit defenders in January and said that January was a failure on this basis. And I think I made the same point last July but I couldn't swear to it! Who's the best of a bad lot dodges the issue.

Very common for a post to be mocked, then what you predicted comes true!. At that point you're told "its easy with hindsight"!!

Going on past behaviour, Venkys will cling to TM till its too late, then appoint Johno who will have to build us again from Div 1.

Better late than never I suppose.

Thought exactly the same thing. He knows what's wrong and he's going to fix it! So why not in January? Its the defence!!!! Why is he always months behind the fans? Next he'll be saying we need a more settled side with players in their best position!

and they score in the 87th,88th and 92nd!

If he's out of contract no way will we give up on him! He's a defender so this is the going rate for us.

I think we'll get pasted.

Well there's younger than him in there!

BBBBBBBBBBB!

You're absolutely right of course. We who love our pets often ignore the very real and mass cruelty that continues in the farming industry. Its out of sight but the clue is in the term"slaughter-house". I try to help in my own little ways. I only eat red meat once a week, I only eat free range chicken, and we only buy free-range eggs. I also contribute monthly to animal protection societies and I sign all the petitions they send me and write to MP's regularly on specific issues they present to me. I only eat free range pork as well. All pathetically inadequate I know but I'm getting too old to change any more substantially. I do have faith in the younger people though and the way veganism continues to take off and I do believe that global warming and population growth will, in time, end many of the most objectionable practices in the food industry. In the meantime I have to live with myself as best I can in the knowledge that my various efforts are pathetically inadequate.

I abhor animal cruelty. I don't know if East Lancashire has a bigger problem than elsewhere or not but if the LT highlights it, then its performing an essential function of the media, which is holding up a mirror to its readers to show how our society is functioning. Lack of respect for animals morphs into lack of respect for humans and its a sign of our somewhat depressing times. I've never been a "hang em, flog em" type of person but the absurdly light penalties we hand out to people who neglect and torment animals makes my blood boil. Sorry, rant over (cuddles up to West Highland Terrier!)

I don't know if you realise it but that is a pretty damning criticism of the manager. Its not other teams we've worked us out, its other managers and its up to our manager to react. Change the team around, freshen it up, stop expecting a different outcome from the same approach. Play people in their best positions for a start. But above all, its that defence that needs fixing. If it can't be done with the current personnel then fair enough we have to wait till summer. But if TM messes it up again then, as far as I'm concerned, he's finished.