Surely one positive from that game is that Southgate can finally see how bad Maguire is? Who am I kidding, first name on the team sheet. Dier is a waste of time aswell.

I think that personally I have been quite underwhelmed by signs of a style of play developing under him so far, I have seen precious little that it is the case, with very few chances being created and a fragility the other way. That being said, being in 7th place with 5 wins more than merits further time. Maybe if we was sat on 4 points say, then even at this early stage you would question his future, but on 15 points, certainly not at all. (I know the question isn't aimed at me, but I would concur that writing off Tomasson at this stage is very harsh)

There is a balance between giving someone patience constructively and blindly and a manager needs to display at least strong developing signs of a plan coming together backed up by results to warrant further time. Watford have a track record of gaining success by being ruthless in changing managers and I would suggest that Bilic seemingly is a better fit to get promotion this season. Our plan will continue to be undermined as long as Venkys take key footballing decisions out of the hands of those employees, but that is beside the point regarding Watford. The idea that Norwich and Watford are beneath us shows how meaningless the phrase "sustainable PL club" is when we are so far away even from an initial promotion. If we go up regardless of when and how, the odds will be against us in initially staying there. It is easy to be drawn in by cliches and platitudes about plans, journeys and projects.

There will be loads of managers that are given time and patience that continued to under perform, there is no point comparing to individuals. In the last 9 years, Watford have not spent 2 consecutive seasons below Premier League level. They are sat not only on parachute money but have kept a number of their best players, there has to be an emphasis on promotion THIS season. Rovers are a poor example and certainly not a case of how a football club should be run. Our managers have been a mixture of brief and long lasting and we have never finished in the top 6 of the Championship since we came down a decade ago. Watford's trigger happy tactic may appear to be a symbol of not the way to run a football club, and of course like anyone they have made poor appointments, but their ruthlessness has led to far more success than we have had under our respective owners.

Why would a manager "who walks way when the going gets tough" be good for us but not Huddersfield?

Watford have a good track record of getting promotions using a tactic of repeated manager changes so as much as it will cause uproar if they sack Edwards, it wouldn't be a total surprise if they then go and get promotion of the back of the decision, which would justify it 100%. From what I have seen of new Sky Sports darlings Watford this season, compounded by watching them at Ewood, they are making a number of changes (players and formations) from game to game rather than using the same system and trying to embed it. Of course making that decision now would make the decision to appoint Edwards to be a strange one in the summer, but Watford are sat on parachute money and have kept key players like Pedro and Sarr, lots of emphasis on an instant return otherwise promotion chances will dwindle.

I dont get how anyone at this stage can judge Broughton as being a success (or indeed a failure) so conclusively at this stage. These days, people tend to get drawn into what people say, both positively and negatively.

It is incredible how months on and in irrelevant threads, everything comes down to Mowbray! It isnt a dead rubber as it is the last warm up before the World Cup, so it should be a rubber stamp of an already working plan. As it is, Southgate's tactics have led to us being continiously unable to score from open play as has been the situation for years under him, and now not defensively solid with out of form and lacking in general quality players repeatedly selected. Nobody could name more than half of the 11 in the first game with any confidence in accuracy.

You didn't need to use warped logic to justify the main opinion that is now clear, that you want an English manager. My opinion is that I don't give a shit on the nationality. Out of interest, say we won a tournament, which will not happen under Southgate that is for sure. But if we did, would it be less enjoyable to you if the manager wasn't English? Mount and Grealish, creative?

My point is that in public, club driven interviews, he is always going to make everything seem hunky dory and therefore there is a limited use to them and it is key to take everything with a pinch of salt. That isn't a criticism of anyone. He is not going to say if and when there are disagreements on signings and he is not going to say about signings, "well our first 3 choices didn't happen so we had to settle for him."

So have all the worst, McLaren failed to qualify for Euro 2008. Hodgson out to Iceland at Euro 2016. Graham Taylor didn't qualify for 1994. All but 2 of our managers ever have been English, our most successful managers did well because of good management, not because that they are English.

As ever, the owners having stubborn stances on individuals will continue to undermine any work done underneath.

Those results have not been BECAUSE those managers were English, it is down to the individual.

I never said that they should, in fact I said that I understand why you get a video like that on official channels, and indeed it would be unwise to say our targets were not first choice, if they feel any where perhaps unwise signings etc. My point was more that because they are only going to say things that paint the club in the best possible light and blowing smoke up the owners arses means that such a video is very limited in use.

We should be so lucky to get that far with dollopers like Maguire and Dier in defence.

Isnt part of the point being made that we dont have to organise friendlies v also rans and that we could still be playing good opposition that we organise ourselves?

Watching England is always a chore. The one talent that stands out is Foden and he will be dropped for the tournament for Mason Mount.

Fair play for showing his face but I can tell from listening for a minute or two that its just the usual platitudes, Waggott is great, Tomasson is great, the owners are great, everything is great. Always going to be the case, especially on official channels which to an extent is fair enough. He won't be asked tough questions despite mentioning FFP early, ie how can Brereton's stay possibly be justified in line with that? How can teams like Brentford be mentioned yet we don't sell our assets AND reinvest. On the transfer front, was Hirst really Tomasson's first choice? Why was Morton the only addition to an area in which we are so light and lacking in physicality and experience? What made us spend so much of our budget on an attacking midfielder with a questionable track record, and how can he not make the bench now others are fit? What is the expectation of Mola? How much money was left in the pot on the last day? How much of the Brereton funds would have been available had we sold him? And crucially, what exactly is the process in picking and signing players? Off the field, mention Preston etc in the North West, our prices are much higher and our figures are lower, why is nothing done?

Toney and Abraham are both decent strikers but are a level or two away from top level, so they like everyone will fall into an abyss. Kane is so good that no matter what they do, they will never seriously challenge him, and even if say we was chasing a game, would it really work to have one on aswell as Kane? It would potentially reduce the latter's ability to poach a goal, and our attacking players tend to want to come inside and get involved.

Appointing Woodgate would be a one way ticket to League 1, what he has done to suggest being a good option is beyond me. Rotherham are in a weird situation, the definition of a yo-yo club but seem more competitive than usual at this level. That being said, they have had their manager poached by a League 1 club which perhaps suggests that they don't have much money to offer their manager, so they will have to be creative. Do they maybe tempt Warnock into a last hurrah at a former club, giving them the best possible chance of a second season, or maybe try and poach someone themselves like Gareth Ainsworth?

Can only think that he will be about to earn significantly more, and will dress it up with the usual new challenge rhetoric. Cant really blame him if so though.

A third midfield player would potentially help but I also think the players in there have not been great. Morton has been pretty poor and Buckley likewise in a new deeper role, and even Travis has his limitations.

I dont feel comfortable with us using specific tangible targets in regards to % of gametime by academy graduates. That sort of thing naturally can conflict with a desire to pick the best team each week, and can lead to non graduates to be discriminated against. I also think it goes hand in hand with dismissing any player touching 30 as being unwanted and well past it, as it seems is now fashionable to do. Our midfield is lacking in experience and looks as lightweight as many of us thought amidst the praise showered on the club for the summer window.

I dont that that style was on show during those games really. V QPR we scored early and managed the game without creating chances. Against West Brom it was heart more than anything that got us over the line and even at Blackpool it was similar. All the soundbites about journeys may have relevance but equally the style we seem under the impression that Tomasson wants to play hasnt really been evident on the pitch at all yet, and the Watford game to me is the outlier. We have also been umcompetitive too often. The buzzword now seems to be inconsistency but I think the level of our performance has been consistently quite poor. It is a results game and we have a reasonable tally but I have misgivings about how we have played and whether it will continue to earn points at the current rate without changes.

And there are minimal signs of that sort of style assumed too, on the pitch.