Tomasson was a far better head coach, tactically he was very good, he managed to convert JRC into one of the best right backs in the league drifting into midfield such was his tactical acumen, he also had a goalscorer in Brereton and then Szmodics, he did benefit initially from a bit of spending, and even amidst all that, it didnt really work. We nearly made the play offs but our results declined when we started to play more pleasing on the eye football, and when the cuts came in the summer everything fell to shit. Ismael has had his only success playing quite the opposite of possession based football. He did try to play like that more at Watford where he had a really good squad and it didnt work. You look at some of the players we have now. Gueye would simply not suit a possession based style, we may aswell get rid in the summer. Batth and Weimann (the latter I wouldnt offer a new deal anyway after his injury and at his age) would clearly need to go. Our midfield which was our strength is not a possession focused one. Our defenders arent particularly good on the ball. If anyone reads what he has said and thinks that could work, then they must have been living in a cave.

So weve already written off this season. So the "project" has to be restarted? You do surprise me. And we on our meagre budget plan to try and play possession based football with a core of players that have shown in the past that they cant really do that. Headed by a head coach whose only career success came playing really direct football? This isnt doomed to failure, honest.

Is Coyle a better manager than Eustace? Judging a manager isnt as black and white as number of promotions. Same when people start quoting win percentages, it depends on the context of the jobs they do, its subjective. Youve spent days mocking my suggestion of Edwards (I said he was the best of an overall poor group of linked managers) in an attempt to deflect and make Ismael seem better. Now you are saying that Edwards would have been an upgrade on Eustace purely because of the promotions. Yet Ismael has no promotions and he was an appointment you strongly endorsed and have refused to criticise or even admit there are concerns/red flags. Where is the consistency in your arguments?

He has had Hyam, Carter, Travis and Tronstad available for all of the games. I know Tronstad has not been fully fit but to prior to Ismael's game, it had been a long while since Travis and Tronstad had been included in the same squad. Our form had not been great but its misleading to focus on only one game considering we had won 3 in 5. Suhail and Waggott arent even the main problem, Venkys are but they are clearly much bigger problems than the manager. I certainly would be the first to criticise the way the club is run, I have criticised the recruitment especially in January but also the summer. But specific to this thread, what Ismael has overseen (when you would expect some sort of new manager bounce) has not been a continuation of poor results. Its considerably worse even than that, and IMO performances and tactics used have also been very poor.

I totally agree that Ismael is clearly not who the brunt of the anger should be aimed at. Its the owners. But speaking specifically in the Ismael thread, I think it has been beyond a mere continuation of what we have seen before. I think that might have been more of a valid argument had we gained a disappointing say 3 or 4 points from 3 games against teams in the bottom 5. We have lost games in isolation v poor teams before he joined, and had we done so once or even twice in the last week, then ok, but to lose all 3 is unacceptable. Yes we have injury problems (we seem to pick up a new one each game since he joined so maybe questions can arise about training methods) but we have more than enough to at least get some points from these last 3 games to avoid already having nothing to play for. And the performances have been a huge concern. Ismael seems confused, changing formations, changing tact from wanting to not change much to now talking about the changes hes making. That confusion is evident in the performances of the players. We stand off more and press even less, we seem more keen to pass for the sake of passing. Its not just a continuation, its a further decline.

To lose a single game in isolation against a struggling side would be bad but it can happen. 3 in a week is the issue. We had also won 3 in 5 prior to his arrival. It really is scraping the barrel to defend him because weve lost games or had runs of losses in the past. I get that he is only 4 games in so I understand that side of not writing him off. But even beyond results, I have seen not one positive in terms of performances, nothing to cling onto. Your argument seems to be just that we have lost games in the past. Have you seen anything at all in his first 4 games that has impressed you in any way?

Youve seemingly come up with a functional game plan that youve seen that no one else has and something that clearly hasnt worked. He said at the start that he didnt want to really change anything. Since, he changed the formation and changed it back, and talked about now adapting to a new style. And it is clearly different. We have not pressed at all, we stand off and we pass a lot more from side to side. You flippantly said should we give the ball to the opposition. Thats not the only alternative to keeping possession for the sake of it. We havent started creating more chances under Ismael. I think it would be a very small minority of managers who would have got 0 points from the last 3 games. You keep repeating that we have had bad runs before. Obviously we have. But the one under Ismael off the back of 3 wins in 5 has been particularly bad against bottom 5 sides. If he had won all 4, we wouldnt say oh well weve won 6 on the bounce earlier in the season. We have looked even worse since he joined than at any point in the season.

Ideally, someone capable of getting any points against 3 of the bottom 5 as to at least keep any hopes of the top 6 going beyond the international break 4 games into his employment.

Under Ismael though its not just been a continuation of below par form. There has been a dip even beyond that. Based on previous form, we probably wouldnt have necessarily picked up 7 or 9 points from 3 of the bottom 5 but we would have at least got some results on the board. Everything seems confused. He has gone from not wanting to change much to trying to force change. Hes gone between formations, neither of which have worked. We have become noticeably more passive, noticeably more keen to pass for the sake of passing. The players look totally confused and particularly disjointed. We have started every single game slowly. The argument that we were crap anyway is flawed, as if he hasnt made things worse. Yes the owners are the issue and the team is patched together on a shoestring but its better than 1 points from these 4 games and better than the performances weve seen.

Gueye and Brittain cost the same amount. If one of the two has shown more value and I appreciate that one has been here for longer, then as it stands, it isnt Gueye.

Your analysis is massively skewed because of your dislike of Broughton. Both he and what has followed have been massively hindered by the owners and the pathetic budget but still within that. You have missed Tronstad who Broughton signed who you coincedentally are the only one who doesnt rate him. Brittain and Hyam have also been good signings and are key players. Hill was a good loan signing. On the flip side, Gueye cant surely be considered good value. He may be seen as that in the future and is getting better but he has 6 league goals. Same with Ohashi. If ACD was a good signing in theory then so was say Moran, but in reality hes been shit. Cantwell has been missed from the above, hes been rubbish. McFadzean played one league minute. Weimann has been a useful pick up, Batth and Beck have been good. The rest have ranged from ok to shocking.

Gestede has not had a big budget but recruitment has been poor this season even factoring that in. Hes a novice who should not be overseeing this. Im sure next season will be fun. We have the same owners so another uncompetitive budget, another summer of Gestede overseeing it, we have Ismael trying to get the most out of it, and we have our best 3 players going into the final year of their contracts and seemingly a total block on new ones being handed out.

Obviously it is both players and managers. We have an average squad of players, so Eustace was the key variable in getting them to perform to their absolute maximum and getting results beyond the quality of those individual players. Conversely, Ismael has got results well below the level of these individual players. The vast majority of goals conceded can be broken down to someone making an individual error. You cant just say, well it wasnt the manager that did it. Why have we repeatedly started slowly under him? When patterns like that develop under a manager, you question the manager. Playing slow, passive football doesnt suit these players and to be honest isnt the approach that got Ismael his brief moment of managerial success. We havent created much in any of his games, 2 chances isnt something to boast about. The players dont look like they know what he wants from them. He has changed to a back 5, it didnt work, back to a back 4, didnt work. First it was about not changing much, now he seems to want to totally change how we play. Feels like he is just hoping that something works rather than having a plan. Rob Edwards was someone I perceived to be the best of a very sorry bunch of linked candidates having taken over Luton successfully in a similar situation. I made it very clear that he would be a downgrade on Eustace and I would want someone better but again like when I am asked which players I would sign, I dont have an in depth knowledge of every possible candidate.

Recruitment wasnt "a lot better" by any means. RevidgeBlue just despised Broughton.

There have been changes under Ismael. None of them good. We have been more passive under him, with no desire to press higher up. We have seemingly tried to keep the ball more, he mentioned that last week, there has been lots more passing slowly, side to side with little And we have repeatedly started games terribly under Ismael. Norwich missed a sitter after a few minutes, Derby were 2 up in 7 minutes, Stoke scored pretty early and Cardiff scored after 4 minutes. His team selection against Stoke was derided by all but 1 on here before kick off, defeat was inevitable. He has flirted between formations and the 5 at the back was unsuccessful so he has already shelved it. Chaddy wont ever consider that any of the above is down to hin.

The squad has been limited all season. Eustace was doing brilliantly. But even so, to get 1 point from 4 including nothing from 3 of the bottom 5 is not justifiable in any way, there is more than enough to get some points in those games. As touched on too, the performances have been woeful. No sign of any patterns of play or game plan. The players dont seem to know what is expected of them, weve become more passive, backing off, much more side to side and slow like we are trying to have more of the ball for the sake of it.

Yep, the one thing we need is a wide man who offers no attacking threat whatsoever. He has scored his seasonal goal so hes a busted flush until next season when our low standards ensure that we activate his extra year.

It doesnt take much cherry picking to see that the first 4 games under Ismael have been totally unacceptable. Any lingering top 6 hopes are in the bin and our performances as well as the results have been devoid of any slither of hope to cling onto. If you have seen signs of a potential workable gameplan in any of the games then I suspect you are deluding yourself.

The majority of goals have individual errors in them. But there has been no semblance of a game plan that looks remotely like working in his 4 games. Hes had as easy a first 4 games as he could have wanted to pick, we had just won 2 from 3 so that should have picked up confidence but there in addition to the lack of direction in terms of tactics has been no new manager bounce whatsoever.

If that was the gameplan then it wasnt very evident. Trying to keep the good things that we do? Havent seen any of that. New ideas? Certainly none that are any good. The players didnt look like they understood what was being asked of them. All 4 performances have been terrible to watch and the points return especially considering the fixtures is unacceptable. We kept clean sheets in 2 of the 3 games prior to Ismael joining. Obviously the problems at the club are not just Ismael. But I have not seen one glimmer to cling onto in his 4 games that suggests that he has a clue what he is doing. This season is now a write off.

I never said that Ohashi and Gueye have been crap signings. The overall recruitment has been crap as I listed out, you would have to have low standards to suggest otherwise. We needed a new number 1, we failed to get one. We needed a new goalscorer, none of the ones we have signed have got into double figures and we have scored considerably less per game than last season, so we failed there. Our big summer signing to play in Szmodics' position has been a big failure. All the main aims have been failed. A small budget overseen by a novice who is out of his depth. Ohashi and Gueye have been no better than ok though. Neither has more than 6 league goals and there are only 8 games left in the season. So its safe to say that neither has provided the goals we needed from the attackers we wanted in the summer.

Who were you really expecting = embrace the low standards of the club. Weve looked even worse under Ismael than before.

Ribeiro is ok but his performances have dipped. A reasonable squad option. Sanderson more often than not has been a bomb scare. Has nearly given away goals a couple of times through individual errors and is really poor on the ball.

We wont sign a new number 1. Itll be Pears as first choice next season, the club has no standards.

Does Ismael get any criticism for losing to 3 bottom 5 sides in the space of a week? If yesterday is his style then I worry. The players looked like they had no idea what they were doing. We were disjointed, and we seemed keen to pass for the sake of it, slowly and side to side with absolutely no purpose. When we got the ball wide, half the time we were reluctant to cross, when we did the crossing was appalling. How have you possibly ascertained that we want to play with pace and trickery? We have no pace and it looked like we were playing walking football. Have you got any doubts about Ismael yet and do you still think there is any chance that we make the top 6? Surely even you have given up on that. The club has.