I meant from Chaddys point of view in regards to defending Mowbray by only bringing up potential refereeing mistakes that went against us.

How can a manager who came in with the admittedly difficult task of trying to keep a club up be considered to have done a good job that season if we went down?!

It totally undermines any defence of Mowbray to totally dismiss the relegation. Obviously Coyle was worse than Mowbray and carries much more blame but no one has ever tried to defend Coyle because we all know how bad he was. But there is no use extrapolating 15 results at the end of the season, quite a few against teams with nothing to play for to try and calculate where we might have finished. His first task was to keep us up, a difficult task, and he failed. It is as black and white as that. Equally, I feel that Mercer is undermining his points by dismissing the fact that Mowbray got us promoted. Ultimately that first season and a half are not why so many are in favour of a managerial change anyway. Regarding all of the supposed long term upgrades, the success of such projects only become tangible and measureable when they start leading to better results. If they do indeed exist and lay foundations to improve us, they still dont strengthen the managers position as another manager can use them, Mowbray wont get the scouting and analysis tools as part of his settlement!

He undoubtedly failed to keep us up, he had a more difficult task than O'Neill and Warnock so its difficult to directly compare (although them 2 are better managers capable of improvements in a much shorter time frame) but he did fail to keep us up even if Coyle was more responsible. This nonsense about points per game extrapolated or his win percentage is all irrelevant, his first task was to keep us up, it was a hard if not impossible one and he failed it. He wasnt lucky to get promoted though as you say, he was an idiot to dismiss the prospect of a league title but he got us promoted convincingly and comfortably.

Ultimately no one knows who we would appoint next, I dont get why Adkins is more or less realistic than anyone else. But even someone like that would allow us to reset, we are stagnating now and our manager is tactically confused, constantly changing system/formation/personnel in a desperate attempt to bear out a flawed theory around a principle he has around style of play. We need new ideas as well as some clarity in direction. With Hughes, I would hazard a guess that his ego would have to shrink to allow him to take a job not only in the Championship but back at a club that he previously felt that he outgrew. People mention him more than usual because he used to manage here, like they do with Ainsworth not because of his impressive work at Wycombe but because he is a fan which should have nothing to do with anything.

You as touched upon seem to have fallen into the trap of falling for what he says. If he is all about the long term, why did he sign 4 loanees this season and Downing for 12 months? You acknowledge that he has failed to improve the same achilles heel in defence that we had since promotion. Inconsistencies in selection are mainly from the injury prone players he has signed or refused to let go even when interest arose. The intangibles behind the scenes are not bearing out improvements on the pitch. And this idea of our fully fit squad is really speculative, its the argument of an underachiever in Mowbray making excuses. So many teams have had injury woes on par or worse than us this season. We will rarely if ever have a fully fit squad. The Premier League argument is heavily flawed. There are only positives from us going up, no negatives at all. Financially is the obvious one. On the playing side, Armstrong would likely sign a new deal so we could protect that investment, Nyambe likewise. Elliott could well come back. And we would have the platform to invest sensibly and prudently, we wouldnt have to be using Gallagher, Brereton, Buckley and Rothwell every week. As long as we genuinely gave our all and tackled the league with enthusiasm rather than throwing in the towel before a ball was kicked, then even if we came back down in the first season we would be in a much better place. And there are some crap teams at the bottom of the Premier League so with savvy signings survival is not an unreachable dream. There is no genuine reasoning in being ready or not ready for the Premier League. If you get promoted you are ready, if not you are not. If the only alternative is to keep swapping between a Kean to a Berg to an Appleton then maybe we would settle for Mowbray. But it isnt and that is hardly a ringing endorsement anyway.

Your suggestion of whether I would be happy with Aidy Boothroyd suggests that you are pigeon-holing managers based on their source. Boothroyd was a journeyman with an underwhelming CV who I saw see a talented England Under 21 side crash out embarrassingly in the group stages under him in 2019. It is not about source of manager or type of manager, it is about individuals. I would agree that Cooper would have been an underwhelming appointment, but he was a well thought out one from Swansea and has done a far better job than Potter who he followed. My point is that we should consider managers across the board, especially in a position whereby we are not desperate for a short term fix, we want someone to take us onto the next level now we are stable yet becoming stagnant. The reason that people suggest the same names is because we only know a limited number of managers ourselves, we wouldnt suggest the England Under 17s manager, the Chicago Fire manager, the Dinamo Tiblisi manager or the LASK manager because we wouldnt have the knowledge, that is why people go for the same names on a messageboard. Maybe a Nigel Pearson or a Mick McCarthy will have better credentials or be deemed more suitable compared to anyone we can find elsewhere, I dont know but we shouldnt limit our search. I dont like directors of football (or certainly "advising agents") because it invariably can lead to players signing for a club for whom the manager didnt want and thus doesnt play or use. I also think that at our club it provides more scope for things to go wrong, for things to become unnecessarily complicated. Maybe a senior manager such as Pearson and McCarthy may be better for us in that they are used to being the main man and are dominant figures but also could give us some better direction and would likely build from a solid base, rather than Mowbray whose tactics are confused, idealistic and unsuitable at this moment in time.

I dont get this "until the end of the season" mentality at all. We arent at the point where we are in disarray, that we need a firefighter, a temporary solution, a loud mouth. You regularly mention Keane as if we need those scare tactics, instant reactions, we dont need that. We dont need a shock, we need a plan, a clear, fresh set of ideas to push us onto that next step. Mowbray has put some foundations in place and done some good work. Clearly, we have hit a wall with him. The players dont seem to be not trying necessarily, to be revolting, or to be in crisis. But equally, Mowbray seems tactically confused, and totally unable to find consistency as he lurches between formations, trying to find a platform to play idealistic football based on flawed principles that only expose the weaknesses within. We dont need to try and play football obsessed with possession from the back, nor does the alternative have to be long ball percentage based which equally wouldnt suit us. The chances of anything major coming from this season seem remote already. We have too many points and too much quality to realistically find ourselves in a dog fight. We would need an absolutely remarkable run of runs to sneak into the play offs, it is 99% likely that we will find ourselves in mid table so already an eye has to turn beyond that. The key is not to be fixated by certain tags or categories. The natural instinct is to go for the experienced head, there may be value there, a Nigel Pearson or Mick McCarthy type. But maybe it warrants more creativity. Perhaps look abroad, look how that has benefitted Barnsley and Reading and how Watford have gone down that route and seem to have initially benefitted. Norwich did so when they got Farke. Or even imagination beyond that, look at Swansea with Cooper, or even look into League's 1 and 2. The rest of the season shouldnt be a short term mantra, of course the aim should be to sneak into the play offs until it isnt mathematically possible but it isnt a short term fix that we need to seek out. It is the next step. They are the same old names because we dont have the grasp of knowledge to be able to name managers across the world, but as mentioned earlier, they should be considered with Barnsley, Reading, Watford and Norwich all succeeding down that route. But people will say the same old names because that is what they know. That being said, id definitely swap Mowbray for Pearson and McCarthy now, both have much more impressive recent CV's at this level. This is what you would do, not what the club might do if it still has certain links to certain agents. Would you sack Mowbray as a simple yes or no question if you was confident enough that the interviewing process would be thorough? Yes or no.

He said he didnt see it and would have to see it again. I havent seen specific moaning from Mowbray about the Armstrong incident either. Neither biased party is relevant though, both seemed to be incorrect decisions to me, one for each team, but both are inconclusive from the angles seen.

Armstrong seemed to be onside and the ball seemed to have gone out of play for our goal but for both, a camera angle was not available to fully clear either up, there may have been a slight part of Armstrong that was technically offside. It is laughable yet predictable bias presumably aimed to defend the manager by moaning about one and merely ignoring the other, based partially on biased commentators and Rovers staff!

Every managers priority is themselves. We might not be much better off, but after Kean and Coyle had finished with us we was very much in a worse position.

Behave yourself. Such direct comparisons do no favour to the credibility of the argument that the common consensus indicates, that Mowbray has taken us as far as he can. If Mowbray goes he will do with the majoritys blessing and positive opinions of the overall job even if towards the end it went stale. Venting and hate? Not at all. Coyle and Kean? Totally insulting.

😂 i was going to put that Ayala was under Karanka and then put Karanka instead of Keogh. My mistake.

Brentford? Not sure about that. Swansea have massively culled their squad post relegation a few years ago and only Ayew is on big wages having failed to shift him. They sell players for big money and sign loans and frees to replace.

The problem with these comparisons is again that it is bloated with players that are on big wages many of whom the manager wouldnt have chosen to use and is stuck with. Having players like Ince and Vokes are not giving Stoke a competitive advantage, if anything they are causing the manager additional issues.

I dont think we should make any decision based on emotion or sentimentality. With Ainsworth, the job he has done is impressive but him being a Rovers fan should not come into it. With Johnson he has no senior managerial experience so it would be a gamble based on very little evidence, especially as id prefer someone external with new ideas.

He was a good defender back in his day but it would seem a risk to sign him at his age and following such a large injury lay off. I always felt be had a mistake in him but more often than not he was a good defender for many years at Derby. Ayala was a very good defender at this level more recently than Keogh albeit in a side that was very well organised. He is also younger but even then he doesnt seem fit for purpose. I would be reluctant to sign Keogh who would only add a further short term solution with reliability issues.

Many of those players signed were prior to O'Neill and rather than being of benefit to him, they are liabilities he is struggling to shift, Ince and Vokes amongst them.

I think that talented younger coaches should be considered as well as those from abroad, Barnsley have massively benefitted from the latter. As supporters we obviously have limited knowledge of potential candidates and I believe the usual names are often used as baseless proof that better isnt out there.

Thats one hell of a desperate assumption to justify the managers position in absence of any reasoning to suggest that we are progressing under him, purely based on thoeretical fear.

The Irish bit was a joke. At his best he was on his day a good Championship centre back, albeit rather error prone, culminating in costing his side the Play Off Final a few years back. Never very fast and with a year out the game injured, it would be a desperate signing. Ayala was of a higher standard, had less time off, is younger and is still not the answer due to lack of reliability.

I think a 34 year old Richard Keogh would be beyond a desperate act to put a sticker over our defence. Irish or not.

I dont understand what style he has in mind, he mentioned being reluctant to go direct but we dont have a competent target man anyway.

No one to our knowledge. There are the usual suspects, Pearson, Howe, Hughes, Wagner, Cowley etc but even if we wanted someone outside of those, there are plenty of talented coaches abroad and in the lower leagues assuming that the powerw that be put in the relevant research that may be beyond our immediate knowledge.

Bit late.