I dont agree that playing under Coyle hindered him. It hindered Rovers, but not Gallagher personally, it benefitted him. Had he bettered that goal tally since or even come close, then maybe there would be an argument that having Coyle as his manager was a hindrance.

He might do, but I think thats a big assumption and not something that correlates with the Sam Gallagher that I have seen, in my opinion.

Again, I took that as being willing to accept "crap" performances if it meant getting consistent results. I am almost certain that no one would prefer crap football over entertaining football assuming the results are the same, and I suspect you are aware of what was meant.

I wouldnt say thrive, more do ok, average. I certainly agree that the choice to play him out wide very much hinders him, but I dont think that he would be able to take over from Toney and start scoring with similar regularity. Gallagher is not a goalscorer, he doesnt sniff out chances, I dont think he would be prolific regardless of the team he was put in because of that. Armstrong is obviously prolific in this team but if you swapped him for Gallagher he wouldnt carry on as Armstrong is doing or even close. For me, the best you would ever get out of him is maybe just about hitting double figures as he did in the season that he was "a breath of fresh air" which I feel is a little bit exaggerated, for me he was ok, nothing more. He lacks the intelligence that Graham had to start thinking about being his successor. Graham could hold the ball up, he could use his body brilliantly, he could link play and he could anticipate where the ball would fall, I think Gallagher is massively lacking on all of those fronts. Gallagher is more mobile (without being particularly fast) and has a better leap to win headers compared to Graham, although again it falls down to intelligence, Graham could use his body to create an angle to nod the ball down intelligently whereas Gallagher rarely can manage that. I feel that his role should just be as very much a Plan B, I dont think he is anywhere near good enough to be playing week in week out for a top half Championship side. Armstrong may get injured at some point or we may want a second striker if we need a goal, in which case by all means bring on Gallagher.

"In a Coyle team" actually involves playing in a very attacking side with 2 wide men and 2 forwards, wrecklessly so without any thought of defending. People often use that season as an example of how he did well under mitigating circumstances but if anything he benefitted from being "in a Coyle side" because it was attacking, and even then his goal record was 1 in 4, so average at best. He also had a really poor spell at Birmingham.

The thing is that this is now very much Mowbrays squad. If the players he has assembled make too many individual errors, even without considering whether that is due to exposure based on style of play, then that is still on him.

To be fair we finished above 16th in both prior years under Mowbray. 12th is about right though and still is miles off target.

I interpreted that not as that we should specifically aim to play crap football, just that its impossible to enjoy the football very much when the results arent good enough.

Im not too sure that anyone has suggested that we should put in crap performances in hope of sneaking a 1 nil.

Is the goal conceded yesterday the earliest in our history? Also has to be difficult to beat in terms of a goalkeeper debuting and letting in his first goal.

Do you think thats there any chance of getting him to agree a new deal. Essentially since he signed as we were promoted, we have been continuously in mid table, and show no tangible signs of pushing beyond that this year. Armstrong after 1 and a half very underwhelming years has started to go from strength to strength and if he continues to score prolifically, after a year and a half of goalscoring and having just turned 24, he could be in a very strong position assuming we dont go up this season with only a year on his contract to go. If I was his agent or indeed even him, I would advise to hold off and wait and see, his position will only grow stronger.

Fantastic analogy!

I fear that when Armstrong does go, we then go from being content if Gallagher and Brereton can chip in (which they still dont really manage) to being reliant on them as key sources in our attack. Dack like Armstrong will have a year left next summer, I doubt he will stay.

Still fuming about last night. This style of play has allowed to us to run riot against the 3 teams on the lowest points in the league but against better teams it just leaves us hopelessly exposed. The first goal in particular was absolutely pathetic, to concede in that manner was unacceptable and unforgivable. I am a bit surprised to see Lenihan get all of the blame at centre back, i though Williams was really poor and perhaps slightly worse, his attempt at a tackle for the second goal was embarassing. We know that he can be a capable stand in but hes never good enough to support where we want to go. That being said, the pair just seemed totally exposed by the style. Rankin Costello is a real dilemma, his cross for the second was very good but he is nowhere near competent enough to play as a full back, even though his deliveries come from deep. We arent Liverpool with Robertson and Trent at full back, bring Nyambe back and play him regularly. Douglas was abysmal yesterday too. Pears looked like a little boy in net and for the first 2 goals, especially the second, I would question his role. Trybull didnt totally convince me in that holding role and Evans cannot play slightly further forward. Holtby was ineffective, hes a talented player but sadly most of his games in a Rovers shirt have been like that. Buckley was a pointless sub, instantly brushed off the ball. Armstrong surely will be thinking about the next transfer window, prolific goalscorers dont stay forever in mid table teams. Elliott definitely has quality and a great ball for the first. Brereton was again ineffective as he is more often than not. We have too many players that Mowbray has signed that have more quiet games than good games. Dolan was quite bright when he came on, Gallagher was absolutely shocking, technically totally bereft and incapable. And why does he keep getting shunted out wide, only highlighting his technical inability? Baffling When does the point come when we compromise on or even abandon these ideas of total football, with a few laughable comparisons to Liverpool thrown in? We dont have the players to be so blaze with our style. And at one point do we roll the dice on the manager, I am not necessarily saying change him now but this has a feeling of a last season before a bit of a factory reset with a few loanees and players approaching the end of their contracts so we cant afford yet more of a work in progress.

Weve been wowed by the nature of our wins so far but if we lose today, 4 losses from 8 would be a poor start so we need a comeback. Against the divisions worst we can sense blood and give them a good hiding. Against decent teams we cant keep them out at all. Not good enough. Pathetic defending all round, Douglas has been appalling, Williams summed himself up tonight with his attempt for the second, Lenihan too rash and Rankin Costello blatantly not a defender. Keeper not convincing either. To be fair, Bell has been putting in shite performances since he joined. This is Douglas' first. Although hes been dismal.

It is the ifollow one, is anyone watching on chrome? I tried a different browser and seems fine now.

Is everyones stream working?

Might be a boost that Ejaria is out for them.

Could do with Downing back as an extra bit of craft to have around.

Just tried the stream and not working, presumably because there is still a bit until kick off but is everyone else the same?

He wasnt on the bench on Saturday, Wharton has replaced Bell.

If we are signing Downing, if we had done it far sooner and he would have started today for sure. He would add another creative option centrally that we could do with. Evans further forward again is not good at all.

I definitely agree that stats have the potential to mislead. A striker with clever movement and the intelligence to get into goalscoring positions, baring in mind that a strikers chances are as much down to his own movement as they are the supply, would compare very unfavourably to one who rarely gets into goalscoring positions in the first place surely? They have such limited use, certainly in isolation. If a team has low xG and is outperforming that stat, why does that have to level out, perhaps that team has a particularly clinical attack, a player or two who is very adept from long distance, or a particularly good goalkeeper.

I think the debate is often measured on the morality of not offering refunds but financially it made no sense either. Refunds claimed would have been minimal and could have been deferred, yet a percentage of those who feel cheated will now as we have seen not buy a season ticket going forward, therefore any slight saving from denying refunds will be removed.

Thanks for the explanation firstly, certainly a very thorough description so fair play. So is the xG not even specific to individual games? I presumed that it was implying that ultimately in the games that we didnt win, that we should have done based on xG. It is incredibly flawed because if most of our xG in 7 games came within 3 games, then that isnt fair to suggest that we should be top based on that! You mention Bamford, what the stat also doesnt factor in is to have so many chances is reliant on him having that anticipation and intelligence to get himself into goalscoring situations, it isnt solely a striker being reliant on service scenario. Take Brereton, he never gets himself into goalscoring positions, so I wouldnt be surprised if his one goal from distance ensures that he is out scoring his xG. Whereas Bamford will have more yet might not take them all. So forwards who keep managing to get into positions to get clear cut chances will be penalised by this method should they not take them all. Andy Cole would have been screwed if his performance was measured like this! You imply that it is not sustainable to outscore your xG consistently but surely you can if you have particularly clinical forwards? I totally appreciate data in general and of course it does play a role but I can be incredibly skeptical of its use in football in certain situations. xG just seems flawed in my opinion to the point where it has limited value in my opinion.