I didnt enjoy watching either of those games particularly, of course mainly due to the results although the concept of entertainment is subjective and clearly we hold different opinions. In the Newcastle game, we did plenty of passing it across the back 4 in non dangerous areas but I never felt at any point during the night that we were likely to score, and so it proved. Against Bournemouth, I think the only 2 shots on target were the goals (one of which was a huge mistake by the goalkeeper from a speculative shot, surely if Lolley was lucky, again so was Johnson?!) and indeed I never felt that we was likely to win the game based on the performance. Maybe it is slightly pedantic but Holtby and Trybull technically weren't unavailable, both were fit and well and in the latters case registered in time but ultimately Mowbray himself chose to grant Holtby paternity leave and leave Trybull out of consideration. Although the main issue was his use of the midfielders that he had left, Johnson is technically not very good and cant really pass but he is a powerful unit and a goal threat, whereas Evans is neat and tidy although if he goes over the half way line he gets a nosebleed. Why he put Johnson as the shield and Evans further forward is beyond me.

Isnt that quite normal? I dont enjoy "good performances" (matter of opinion) if we lose and I never have.

I suspect that questioning whether I get any joy out of watching Rovers is a pathetic argument made in the absence of anything more logical. I appreciate that people have different circumstances but seeing as I have bought a season pass amidst the uncertainty of being able to attend any time soon, whereas you are unwilling to purchase the games due to the production values and slight delay, then I also find it quite hypocritical that you have resorted to questioning whether I even enjoy watching Rovers in general. To be honest, I dont get any enjoyment out of watching my team put in a really poor performance and lose a home game against a side yet to pick up a point, it put me in a bad mood because it was the opposite of what I wanted to see. If that in any way questions my enjoyment or purpose of being a Rovers fan to others then so be it. In regards to yesterdays performance, I couldnt give a shit what a heat map shows about Gallaghers positioning, I could see using my eyes that he was again stuck on the wing and that Mowbray got his tactics wrong in regards to the positioning of our midfield and attack. To suggest that the result was purely down to luck, missing players who failed to perform in the previous game or indeed suggest that no alternative tactics could have made a difference is just shutting down any concept of debate and discussion over what caused a poor performance and poor result. Forest could argue that they were incredibly unlucky to hit the post just before the goal, and I didnt hear people suggesting that Johnson was very lucky to score a massively deflected goal the other week.

I did acknowledge the unavailability and I didnt specifically say that his tactics were "the reason we lost" but they certainly contributed. You yourself said that Gallagher should have played central, under absolutely no circumstances should he be playing out wide, its amazing that the journalists interviewing him never really question him on it considering that it never ever works yet he keeps persisting with it. Chapman was totally anonymous and lost as a number 10, it didnt work at all. So yes, the tactical make up of our attack in the second half was wrong and the fact that we created absolutely nothing was of little surprise. Something that I have repeatedly said is that Johnson should not be sitting in front of the back 4, he is not good enough technically to be trusted in that area and regularly gives the ball away. He did, he was typically sloppy in possession, Evans offered absolutely nothing in a role further forward which again he is not suited too, and Johnson's misplaced pass led to the winner. The game was similar in that the onus was on us to break down a side and we never came close to doing so, we lacked ideas, we lacked tempo, we lacked craft. Holtby and in particular Rothwell certainly have ability but more often than not flatter to deceive, we would much rather have them available but considering that they had no effect v Cardiff and often have games were they are totally anonymous, its hard to put too much stock in their absence.

We had both Holtby and Rothwell v Cardiff and they couldnt do anything in a very similar game, so I suspect that it is a little inaccurate to imply that with them, it would have been a different story. Unavailability played a part but so did Mowbrays tactical mistakes. As you say, Gallagher should have gone central, and having him wide and Chapman as a 10 was bizarre. Also, having Johnson in front of the back 4 was costly.

I am unsure on exactly how good our squad is at the moment. I still feel that with so many players, its just hope that they will have a good season in spite of what they have done so far. That being said, the back 4 (never thought I would say this) looks very competent at this level with Ayala and hopefully Douglas, and we do have some real quality and goals in Armstrong and Dack. I just wonder if Mowbray will get them 2 into the team together in a way that suits both, and also about the contribution of basically every other attacking player, Rothwell, Chapman, Brereton, Dolan, Gallagher, Rankin Costello, Buckley, even Holtby who I rate above all of those but he hasnt done it consistently for us yet. Good question, I hope so because we need him. The choice to allow Holtby is an interesting one. Many managers would have expected him back for the game with his baby born a few days beforehand, especially with our depleted squad. Mowbray has been very generous.

Scored an absolute belter in the last game plus scored 8 and assisted 6 in his last season at this level. If we had signed him, maybe we wouldnt have been lumbered with Brereton. How? Over Armstrong, Kaminski, Ayala, Lenihan, Nyambe etc? He repeatedly flatters to deceive, he played against Cardiff in a similar game and was totally ineffective when the onus was on him to unlock a stubborn defence. I hope this is the season that it all comes together but hope more than expect.

I dont see the need for "positive" and "negative" camps but I certainly share some of your tactical doubts and misgivings. I think that the perception of our start is perhaps skewed by the manner of the 2 wins but 7 points from 5 is an average start and puts pressure on at least avoiding defeat on Wednesday night. Our home form in terms of avoiding defeats is usually good but there are always far too many draws because I am not convinced that we have the craft or imagination in the team or enough quality attacking options to break teams down. I share your scepticism towards the system when Dack goes back, anyone who doesnt think that Dack walks into this team is in denial and ultimately the best system is the one that gets the best from him and Armstrong. Does 4-3-3 do that? Possibly not. Unavailability undoubtedly played a part yesterday but Mowbray certainly didnt use what he did have at his disposal correctly. We have so many attacking players in which we need "breakthrough seasons" in that the players have attributes to do certain things but have never produced with any regularity. Mowbray bemoaned the absence of Rothwell yesterday but he was totally ineffective against Cardiff in a similar game and has been all promise and no end product throughout his time here. I keep hearing that this will be Brereton's breakthrough season but there is just nothing at the end of his game, his off the ball movement is really poor too, the amount of times that for example the full back or a midfielder will have the ball and rather than having any intention of making a clever run or getting into the box, he just drops deep and asks for the ball 5 yards away, often in close attention of a defender. Holtby undoubtedly has more talent than those 2 players but even he has yet to really produce regularly in a Rovers shirt. Rankin Costello was another missing yesterday, has he done anything in the first team so far to suggest that he would have made a difference yesterday? Dolan even in his good games looks very raw, often trying tricks to our detriment and ultimately he has a lot of development in front of him, and Chapman looks a busted flush. There is obviously the ongoing frustrations with Gallagher and we have a lot of reliance now on a 17 year old kid on loan who is highly rated and exciting (the likes of Brereton, Rankin Costello, Dolan etc wouldnt even be still at Liverpool never mind on the fringes of the first team squad) and hopefully gives us something new but is not of the same proven record as other clubs signing the likes of Harry Wilson and Anthony Knockaert on deadline day. Mowbray also makes perplexing tactical decisions which do not help us trying to win games. This Gallagher on the wing shite is really infuriating and yesterday to have Armstrong as a lone striker, Chapman as a number 10 and Gallagher on the right was downright bizarre. Having Johnson who is a serious goal threat but a liability in front of his defence on the ball and Evans further forward with an onus to get forward was totally illogical too.

There are many ways to skin a cat, Cardiff didnt manage to do that here and we will need to find a way to be able to break teams down if we have serious aspirations of a top 6 finish, no team can solely rely on counter attacking.

The side I picked was not the one that I expect Mowbray to pick, and I havent seen any interviews. It is the one that I would pick. You mention continuity but the last couple of performances have been dire, and changing a few might provoke that to change. I have always felt that beyond the goalscoring of Armstrong and when fit Dack, I am not convinced by the supporting cast, but we definitely need to change things up there. I wouldnt ideally want Gallagher to start games (especially as it leaves no strikers on the bench) but I see little alternative. He seemingly has more in the forlorn hope that Brereton will start contributing, so maybe he will give him another game, for me he has to be dropped. Likewise with Dolan, I was criticised for suggesting that we were getting excited prematurely after a couple of games, he is so raw and has been totally ineffective, and needs to learn to only do tricks in the right area. He hasnt played a senior game before this season, taking him out for now and If I had to guess what Mowbray will do, it will be Armstrong central, Gallagher wide, and one other from Dolan, Brereton and if fit, Rankin Costello. Douglas is obviously better than Bell, who was typically frustrating yesterday, technically sloppy and in a home game that demanded him to go forward, he was totally ineffective in attacking areas, I dont remember one accurate cross from either full back. Mowbray thinks that he has been "excellent" which I hope is purely a case of man management but Douglas with Nyambe, Lenihan and Ayala is our best defence and Bell hasnt been particularly good individually, so surely if fitness permits going to our best defence if anything is good for continuity? In midfield, if I was to predict what Mowbray will do, Johnson will be in front of the back 4 which exposes his weaknesses. I would play Trybull there if fitness provides, if not we probably have little choice but to put Evans there, in a role that doesnt require him to be creative. Johnson and ideally Holtby can play in front of him and if the latter is still on paternity leave, we really do have a problem as I am unsure who else we can play there.

Hopefully we can make a few changes to freshen things up. I think Dolan and Brereton need to come out of the team, Elliott should come in and with Dack still out and Rothwell likely to be out isolating, I see little choice but to give Gallagher a shot. Armstrong has struggled to get involved so have him from the left, under no circumstances should Gallagher play wide. Douglas needs to come in at left back, we look weak in central midfield so hopefully Holtbys extended paternity wont extend to Wednesday, and hopefully Trybull can sit in front of the back 4. If Downing signs prior, get him on the bench over Bell. Kaminski Nyambe Ayala Lenihan Douglas Trybull Holtby Johnson Elliott Gallagher Armstrong Subs: Pears, Williams/Wharton, Rankin Costello, Bell, Evans, Brereton, Dolan Its an important game. Lose a very difficult fixture and 7 points from 6 games is not the best start.

If someone doesnt rate a player, a forum is the perfect place to share such an opinion. I dont see how that warrants comments about the relief of the poster not working for the club, it doesnt mean that in that scenario he would just repeatedly tell the player how much he doesnt rate him. There is also an element of hypocrisy in saying that you "dont see much in Grayson" only to immediately follow it by saying that you wouldnt say so on a public forum!

I disagree that Johnson is technically better than Evans. Evans is very limited but he is neat and tidy, you can give him the ball on the half turn and he wont usually give it away. Johnson is really poor technically, it was his poor pass that led to the winner and he has tried to pick the ball up off the defence countless times and had the ball taken off him in his time here, he has been lucky that it hasnt led to more goals. He is a powerful player though and has scored lots of goals at this level.

I am not saying that you are implying that Brereton is brilliant, I know you aren't. I also disagree that Brereton was the best of the 3, I thought all 3 were equally totally ineffective to be honest. To be honest, my comments were mainly aimed at DaveyB who said that "the fact that Ben is getting pelters and the other 2 aren’t being mentioned says more about the posters on here than it does about him." I think that until he starts contributing in front of goal, and thats not me expecting a 20 goal season, just a contribution, or really impacting on games, he will always be picked out. I also dont think that its realistic to totally eradicate the price tag from any analysis, although the standards that he is failing to meet are not that of a 7m forward. I think that there is a common implication that Brereton is unfairly picked out, I actually think that overall, our fanbase has been patient with him considering how poor his Rovers career has been to date. You did put: "I find it pretty pathetic your obsession with Brereton, he didn't put the 7 million price tag on his head, didn't force Mowbray to pay it, as far as I'm aware he has never bigged himself up but this season at least he has been trying.And whatever you say he did play well in the first 3 games, last 2 games not many have played well" so I mainly included your post in regards to your comment that "this season at least he has been trying" as an example of how low the benchmark is for him. I am desperate for him to succeed and indeed naturally I have on occasion seen little slithers of improvement post lockdown and got excited, perhaps prematurely.

I would say that useless as an overall judgement is harsh. I think in 2 games he has been totally unthreatening but has done neat bits and pieces in non dangerous areas. In 4 games, he has done nothing. And in the Doncaster game, very mixed. Missed an open net, good play in the build up to the second.

Mowbray definitely warrants an element of sympathy for the missing players, no doubt about it, but it also doesn't give him a free pass regarding his management of the players that were available. You look at how he used the attacking players especially in the second half. The constant Gallagher on the wing experiment, it has never worked. There was nothing stopping Gallagher going alongside Armstrong up top, especially when Chapman came on, a winger played in a number 10 position to allow Gallagher to continue to plod up and down the line unsuccessfully. If either of Armstrong and Gallagher were to play anywhere apart from right up front, surely it was Armstrong who is far more effective out wide and also was struggling to get much of the ball in a central role. You also look at how he used Johnson, a player incapable of taking the ball on the half turn, much deeper than Evans who is incapable of any sort of creativity or goal threat. The late winner came from sloppiness in possession by Johnson, and it is far from the first time. It is also not satisfactory to avoid criticism simply by "putting every attacker on the pitch." We only have 2 out and out strikers and the taller one was lumped on the wing. He did change the formation but it didnt make any positive difference. Not this myth about people being "obsessed" or overly critical with Brereton. If anything, many are incredibly patient and cling onto any slither of hope of an improvement desperate for him to do well. For most of his Rovers career, he has not looked comfortable on a football pitch. Since lockdown, he has shown small glimpses of hope, occasional runs, neat touches of hold up play, little contributions into moves for goals, but bar one goal, he has offered no goalscoring threat at all. Sometimes he is neat and tidy, he is ok if not threatening, sometimes like today he is totally ineffective. He was decent away at Derby, ok but not stand out v Wycombe and poor at Bournemouth, as well as today and v Cardiff. I thought it was pretty telling that when we needed a goal today, Brereton was replaced for Brennan who is clearly a million miles from Championship standard. It shows the level of the benchmark he is aiming to improve upon that merely trying is an improvement! The thing with Armstrong is that he is the top scorer in the league with Toney, he was very quiet but he has credit in the bank having impressed so much to justify the occasional quiet game. I think whilst understandable, the excitement over Dolan was well over the top, he has not been in a senior squad before this season. Brereton has played over 100 times in the Championship and he offers absolutely no threat whatsoever. You could argue that his lack of contribution in spite of plenty of appearances is more damning than the price tag. Also, @JoeH you mentioned that you felt that Hughton would play a much more aggressive and expansive game that what we saw to try and satisfy the fans at home and the hierarchy. I was personally not surprised to see a well drilled Forest built on structure and organisation and one that ultimately grew into the game and unfortunately I felt possibly deserved their narrow win.

I think the excitement understandably came from the manner and scoreline of those wins, there were specific small periods in which we scored 3 in quick succession. There doesnt seem to be an in between at the moment, in neither of the last 2 games did we even threaten the goal. Ultimately, a start of 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 losses is decidedly average.

Its crazy, there seems to have been a shift in recent years within the whole culture of football whereby there is a certain type of football that seems to be considered acceptable and mandatory, passing it out from the back etc and if anyone shifts from that, regardless of results, they are treat with scorn. The result has almost become of secondary importance. Another aspect is that the skill of goalscoring seems to have fallen down in the ranking of importance for attacking players. Being a consistent, prolific goalscorer doesnt do it for some people anymore.

I do worry as to whether Mowbray even knows his best team and what it will settle down as, in spite of some exciting transfer business. I think that the back 4 and keeper picks itself, id like to think that Mowbray sees that Douglas is an upgrade on Bell, that Lenihan and Ayala are our best 2 centre backs, and that Nyambe needs to play and Rankin Costello as a full back is nothing more than cover. I think there is a lot of excitement especially in attacking areas that we have plenty of options but I have serious misgivings as to how many are of any substance and indeed how to build around those. I suspect that we are going to have to pick 3 central midfielders due to the abundance of players that we have in there, especially with Downing to come. But I am unsure as to which 3 are the best trio. In attack though, for all of the numbers, I am not sure which ones are going to make meaningful contributions. Armstrong is an obvious one but for the second game in a row today, he looked completely helpless, isolated, frustrated and fed up. We need Dack to come back in as soon as possible, and seemingly will have to guarantee Harvey Elliott a key role, a player of raw talent but one we cannot be sure if he himself will be a threat. Gallagher is poor and continuously stuck out wide, Brereton is mainly a waste of space, Dolan is so raw, Rothwell flatters to deceive, Rankin Costello doesnt really have the attributes to stand out, Chapman looks a bit of a busted flush, we only really have 2 forwards to play centrally. The 2 obvious ones that have to play are Dack and Armstrong, and then Elliott I am sure will have a big role. But how do you fit them 3 in to the same team to get the best out of them? If we keep the 3 in midfield, you probably need to go with a false 9, Armstrong from the left and Elliott from the right. The team at the moment seems to lack any sort of real substance in attack.

Absolutely horrendous watch and performance as per the Cardiff game but we couldnt even cling on to a clean sheet. I get that we had plenty of players unavailable but Mowbray got his tactics wrong again. Firstly, I mentioned earlier that Johnson cannot play on the half turn, his passing is not good enough and he is not a sitter, whereas Evans gets a nose bleed if given any license to attack. Them 2 were played the wrong way around. Also, the Gallagher on the wing shite again was bizarre. If he is to come on, of which we had little alternative due to only having 2 strikers in the squad, then either put Gallagher up front WITH Armstrong, or if you definitely want only one, Armstrong was getting little of the ball so move him out wide, get Gallagher down the middle rather than out wide which he clearly cannot do but only Mowbray thinks he can. Then he brought on a winger, and put him as a number 10 and then left Gallagher wide! Absolutely bizarre and costly. Buckley had a chance to make a real push for a place today and it couldnt have gone any worse for him, he was absolutely awful, didnt get involved and some terrible passing. I was always wary about the hype that Dolan got after a couple of promising performances, apparently that was being miserable but I felt that even then he seemed so raw and has been really poor in these last 2 games, even doing stupid tricks in the wrong areas. He is so young, so raw and we cant be relying on him to play every week. Take him out the side for now and hopefully he can learn and impact from the bench. Brereton was again absolutely awful too, we cling onto performances when he does little bits of neat play amidst offering zero goal threat, he has reverted back to looking out of place being on a football pitch. Lenihan and especially Ayala are not the most cultured defenders but I do feel that we are solid there for the most part, they do the basics well, Ayala looks a very good signing. I thought the full backs both had very mixed games, neither offered a genuine attacking threat, both run forward stop and turn back, Nyambe made a couple of defensive slips as did Bell with sloppy passes. Alot of snobbery towards Hughton and their style but I felt that Forest edged the game really, they had the decent chances and got very lucky with the goal but were desperately unlucky minutes earlier when Ameobi hit the post. Mowbray needs to be brave with his team selection v Watford. Buckley has missed his chance and Dolan and Brereton have been really poor in the last 2 games. Bell is constantly sloppy and obviously the midfield balance is not right. I would like to see Douglas, Trybull, Elliott, Rothwell and Holtby start if they are all available. He has said post match that "it was a team thrown together" and regarding the internationals, "how are you supposed to put a football team together thats well coached and structured." He is making excuses there. For a start, Hughton managed it, and Mowbray surely has had time to build a structure that doesnt require loads of work each game to be structured and organised, its not as if the new players all started, it was a set of players that have featured regularly so it shouldnt have a feel of being thrown together.

Very, very weak bench and not the strongest line up, A shame that none of the new signings could be on the bench. Missing a lorry load of players. Hopefully at least most of Elliott, Trybull, Douglas, Holtby, Rothwell, Pears, Williams and Rankin Costello can be in contention midweek. Maybe Downing too. Hopefully we can grind our way to a victory, Forest will be a different animal with a new manager but ultimately a home game v a team with 4 losses in 4 has to be one we expect to win. I would disagree on the best roles of Evans and Johnson. Johnson is better breaking forward, sit him in front of the back 4 and he is not very good taking the ball on the half turn, his strengths lie in the power he offers and the goal threat he gives us breaking from deep. Whereas Evans is very conservative, a lot more neat and tidy and can take the ball on the half turn and perhaps more disciplined but offers absolutely zero going forward.

"Hate" towards Bennett? Absolute bollocks. I have never seen one person question Bennett as a leader, a role model, a human being, or a representative of the club. I dont think anyone could or does show anything like "hate" towards him. It is not hate to hold the opinion that in any position, he weakens our side and has nothing to offer an ambitious Championship side on the field. That isnt hate or disrespectful, thats a fairly widely held opinion from the looks of things. We always seem to veer back towards this glass half full v glass half empty, positive v negative shite too. I dont think you need to get to know him to realise that Bennett as a personality seems to be fairly unquestionable. No one has ever doubted that. The perfect man to lead our club is an interesting conundrum really. As a person, unquestionable, but I would also argue that as a leader/captain, you also have to be able to contribute on the pitch. Sadly for Bennett, as was the case for another good professional and leader in Mulgrew before, the time came when his ability on the pitch let him down. As it is, we do have experience and leadership amidst the team, Lenihan seems a leader, Ayala, Douglas, Johnson, soon to be Downing, of course all of these can offer competence on the pitch. I believe he suffered a serious injury when at Norwich, I remembered him as being much faster for them compared to when he signed for us. Maybe the Bennett we got had matured as a person to the man we see today, but a lot of what made him the player he was had been lost. I mean that as it stands, our 2 contracted left backs, one loan and one permanent both are out of contract I am not suggesting that we will go into next season with no left backs. I am happy with the signing of Douglas, less so with the renewal of Bell, but I was just comparing the situation to in goal last season, when we had Walton on loan and Leutwiler with a year to go, both departed at the end of the season and the position needed a factory reset, which it has had. Maybe if Manning was available at such a knockdown fee, he would have perhaps been a more long term focused addition at left back. That being said, Douglas should be a shrewd short term addition.

No one has ever expected them to be at Jack Walker's standards, such a comparison is illogical and ultimately provocative. They have gone from years of being disruptively prevalent to conveniently absent. A transfer window in which weve relied on frees, loans and a couple of minimal fees is no reason to start blowing smoke up their arse.

If they are your standards, not being in administration (the 2 comparisons are totally different situations) and being thankful merely to be in business then fair enough, each to their own I suppose. Mowbray hasnt spent loads of money at all this window, he personally (plus perhaps scouting etc) deserves the praise if deemed that he has utilised his limited resources well to the benefit of the squad. Venkys havent bankrolled a summer splurge of transfers, Mowbray has just utilised the loan, free agent and European markets to improve the squad on a budget. Nor is it this brilliant deed to ultimately have gotten themselves into a position whereby a company they own is making losses that they have to supplement. I understand that but I also think that if people post things that arent right, then they shouldnt be untouchable either, as others have said im sure he understands that it is just a bit of joking around, if someone posts a rumour that repeatedly doesnt materialise, I am not sure if it is fair to start intervening as you have threatened if people have a bit of gentle ribbing that the rumour isnt correct, just out of fear that ITK titbits will dry up. Of course it is welcomed but "ITK's" shouldnt surely be treat any differently/favourably?

He is one of the signings that I would say I am most happy with. Ayala is the main one for me, the one I am most confident on but I am happy with Douglas. The injuries are of course a concern and I would have preferred Cunningham, who also has injury conerns. Also, my worry is that we are in a similar position to in net a year ago, in 12 months we havent got a left back, Douglas will be a free agent but also 32. But I am happy with his signing, I think he is a big upgrade, he also can give us good set pieces which is a bonus. I dont think pace is critical and he will be an attacking threat.