[Archived] European Cup

[pg]

3) Seen the Aussie press are getting upset about the stick being given to Kewell.

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No surprise there then. Tiresome, insular lot.

319071[/snapback]

You're wrong as usual, troll-boy

"Kewell may have been a victim of bad advice and certainly of bad luck, but it is poignant that on the day he won his first trophy in English soccer, the experience was soured by the boos of his own supporters.

At 26, there is still time for Kewell to get his ankle, groin and mind right, to be the superstar his talent says he should be.

His most pressing priorities, after he recovers from this latest setback, are to win over Liverpool fans and to prove his commitment to playing for his country. Otherwise he will be remembered more for his lame excuses than his exquisite skills and that would be a shame."

Full article :

The Age

[Paul]

That's an evil little post philip I especially like the Celtic/Everton and Man U/rangers idea

[adopted scouser]

'He who shall not be named' dons a disguise and tries to ruin the celebrations. (bottom left hand corner).

[frosty]

'He who shall not be named' dons a disguise and tries to ruin the celebrations. (bottom left hand corner).

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Thought that were Souness with his moustache!

[philipl]

Looks like Liverpool were going to get the nod to defend their trophy this Wednesday but....

Everton have realised that if Liverpool make it to the Group Stage (it is looking increasingly likely UEFA will come up with some killer schedule forcing Liverpool to play a qualifying round and the Super Cup), then the English clubs' share of the Group money would be split five ways (assuming the Mancs, Liverpool and themselves all survive) costing them a cool £5m.

So the other scousers are objecting now.

[doctorryan]

That's ridiculous. There are 32 clubs in group phase and they each get roughly £25 million. But if 5 clubs from the same association make it they're going to withhold one of the shares? How would that work? Nonsense. This whole thing is ridiculous. European Cup winners get to defend their status as the competition's winner, period. Anyone who looked at the actual rules would see they really have no other choice and that including Liverpool will be at the expense of no one. The 4 club limit was a vain attempt to appease the smaller associations in UEFA by saying "We won't let the Big 3 (FAPL, La Liga, Series A) get too powerful.

[doctorryan]

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

1st Qualifying Round July

24 champions from countries ranked 26 or lower

2nd Qualifying Round Jul-Aug

involving 28 teams:

12 winners from 1st qualifying round

10 champions from countries ranked 16-25

6 second-placed teams from countries ranked 10-15

3rd Qualifying Round August

involving 32 teams:

14 winners from 2nd qualifying round

6 champions from countries ranked 10-15

3 second-placed teams from countries ranked 7-9

6 third-placed teams from countries ranked 1-6

3 fourth-placed teams from countries ranked 1-3

Group Stage Sep-Dec

involving 8 groups of 4 teams each:

16 winners from 3rd qualifying round

9 champions from countries ranked 1-9

6 second-placed teams from countries ranked 1-6

1 defending cup holder

No country can have more than 4 representatives in the Champions League. This implies that, if the defending cup holder comes from one of the top three ranked countries, and did not qualify directly for the Champions League, the fourth- placed team of that country has to participate in the UEFA Cup (e.g. Real Zaragoza in 2000).

If the defending cup holder already qualified directly for the group stage of the Champions League, the champion of the 10th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the group stage, the champion of the 16th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 3rd qualifying round, and the champions of the 26th and 27th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 2nd qualifying round. Similar changes are made if the cup holder already qualified directly for one of the qualification rounds, or if the cup holder did not qualify directly but is from one of the top three ranked countries.

Edited June 7, 2005 by doctorryan

[philipl]

This is in the "I think I saw it somewhere" category but the amount of cash in the Champions League is allocated in some formula which links payment to the size of the TV audience and commercial contribution of that country.

Therefore England's pot is worth a coefficient share appplied to the number of teams competing UP TO a maximum of four. That pot is divided equally between the number of English teams in the Group stages. Therefore the pot would be divided by 5 and not 4 if all the English clubs play in the Group Stage.

Another sanity check- the Group Stages are worth a lot less than 32 x £25m although they have been worth about £20m each to English clubs- roughly double their worth to Scottish clubs.

[doctorryan]

That's part of it Phil , but not the whole story. Now I understand why there's confusion between us on this. The "coefficient share applied to the number of teams competing UP TO a maximum of four" is actually just 1/4 of the equation.

To make this as short as humanly possible:

75% of the first £400m(or something like that - the number keeps growing and it starts as Swiss Francs) in total revenue goes into the CL pools and 82% of everything after that.

That CL pool is then split into 2:

The Fixed Amount

This pays a base guarantee that totals around £8m + performance bonus (something like £300,000 per win, £150,000 per draw) in The Group Phase.

There are additional performance bonuses for qualifying for the knockout rounds and for each additional round you progress. There is a total cap on what you can receive from The Fixed Amount pool that I believe is around £20m(but only the finalists would get anywhere close to it).

The Market Pool

This is where the number you're referring to, the "coefficient share applied to the number of teams competing" comes from. When I saw Everton & £5m the math made me think you were referring to the fixed amount. Half of the market pool is split exactly as you have stated. Each of the member associations get a share of this half of The Market Pool based on coefficient ranking. That money is then split amongst the clubs as follows:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

# of clubs:~~~ 4~~~~3~~~~~2~~~~1~~~

--------------- ---------- ---------- ---------- ----------

Champions~~ 40%~~45%~~~55%~~100%

Runners-up~~30%~~35%~~~45%

No. 3~~~~~~15%~~20%

No. 4~~~~~~15%

-------------------------------------------------------------------

How that would work with 5 clubs is anyone's guess.

The other half is based on "the amount representing the value of each market

in proportion to the number of matches played." Which to me translates as: The biggest clubs that attract most fans & PPV receipts(and the clubs lucky enough to draw them) get the biggest share of this.

And neither number includes gate receipts. In other words, I've never heard of anybody, not even a small association club that lucked through and then lost all 6 group matches, that only made £10m out of all that(at least not since the turn of the century). But I could be wrong.

[doctorryan]

Yo Phil - make some space in your inbox so I can send you something.

[philipl]

Yo Ryan space made!

Space made for Liverpool too- unanimous UEFA verdict means:

Liverpool enter the Champs League at Qualifying Round 1 stage

Liverpool get no "country protection" so they could draw the Mancs or Everton in Q round 3 depending on how this is interpreted for seeding purposes and could draw any English club in the Group stages- assuming they get there.

The "English pot" of money from the Group stages is unchanged so the other four English will get less but Liverpool would get a lot less than if they had qualified by coming fourth.

Liverpool's place in the UEFA Cup will not go to Man City as the next highest placed English club. So when Newcastle get knocked out of the Intertoto, just Notlob and Boro will represent the Prem in that competition...

Implications for Liverpool- six competitive games before making it to the Group stages including playing the Super Cup in Monaco and a qualifying game in THE SAME WEEK.

Plus they take a week (including two week-ends) out for the World Club Cup in mid-December. Chuck in the shortened season, and its odds on Liverpool will be fielding their Academy side in the League Cup and the Reserves in the FA Cup! Plus the prospect of them playing three Prem games a week at the season end if they progress well in the Cups and the weather is a bit bad.

Edited June 10, 2005 by philipl

[philipl]

I cannot believe the Liverpool fans who are moaning about being "only" let into the champs league at the first qualifying round stage.

Current Liverpool pre-season looks like this:

Jun 27 - Pre-season training begins

Jul 12/13 EC Qual Round 1 Leg 1

Jul 16 v Bayer Leverkusen (venue TBA) - awaiting confirmation

Jul 19/20 EC Qual Round 1 Leg 2

Jul 22 v FC Cologne (away) - awaiting confirmation

Jul 26/27 EC Qual Round 2 Leg 1

Jul 27 v Smimizu S Pulse (away)

Jul 30 v Kashima Antlers (away)

Aug 2/3 EC Qual Round 2 Leg 2

Aug 9/10 EC Qual Round 3 Leg 1

Aug 13 - Premiership opening weekend

Aug 17 - International Fixtures (e.g. Denmark v England)

Aug 20 - Premiership week 2.

Aug 23/4 EC Qual Round 3 Leg 2

Aug 26 v CSKA Moscow (to be played in Monaco) UEFA Super Cup Final

Aug 27 - Premiership week 3

A doddle!

The seedings apparently will work in such a way that in the third qualifying round, Liverpool and Man U would be in one half of the draw and Everton, Celtic and Rangers in thother half with country preference preventing an Everton v Manu match but not preventing Everton v Liverpool.

[Paul]

Reading that last post of philip's I'm struck by just one thought - it's silly, just plain good old fashioned silly!

Not philip's post but Liverpool's schedule. If ever there was an arguement for the way the game is being destroyed by clubs chasing more and more money, TV schedules etc, that is it. 15 games in 47 days through July/August, they really must be having a laugh.

What's wrong with the PL and straight-forward knockout European competition. No wonder people are bored with football.

[philipl]

Just had a look at the way the Champions League Qualification Rounds might work out now and by a strange quirk of fate-

Liverpool's entry at the First qualifying Round means Fenerbahce move up to automatic group round qualification taking the slot normally reserved for the holders. That in turn probably means Rangers just make it into the top half of the Third Qualifying round seedings and might get Everton but wouldn't get the Mancs or Liverpool.

However, a nightmare third qualifying round tie awaits Celtic: Man U, Liverpool, Real Madrid, Real Bettis, Inter.... etc etc are probably all in the other half of the draw. Conversely none of those top seeds would fancy getting Celtic (or Everton for Liverpool and the Continentals) and would fear facing the Ukrainians or the even more dangerous CSKA Moscow in the bottom half of the draw.

Mancs and Real Madrid knocked back into the UEFA?- bliss!

Should Liverpool make it to the Group stage, they will then become number 1 seeds again as Champions but could be drawn in any pot including one with an English club. Again the prospect of a daw against Everton (assuming they survive) becomes a possibility and apparently Chelsea would drop from the top seeds eight seeds so could face Liverpool at the Group stage.

Edited June 11, 2005 by philipl

[doctorryan]

Wow - Just looked at the numbers released by UEFA regarding CL payments for 2004-2005 and if those numbers tell the whole story, it means UEFA has seen a drop in total revenue for the CL of at least €140m in 5 years. Not a single club on the list made it to the old £25m mark. Liverpool was closest with just over 20. What a bummer for the big boys, huh?

Good Luck Malcolm

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

"I'm staying", mouthed Steven Gerrard to Liverpool fans as he patted the LFC badge on his chest after the epic Champions League comeback against Milan.

Now it seems that despite being offered a reported £100,000 a week to stay at Anfield, Gerrard wants out.

The cynical among us would suggest that throughout last season he was aware that he'd be leaving in the summer. While he was obviously delighted to lift aloft the Champions League trophy, this didn't change his mind about wanting to leave.

His agent had no doubt been whispering in his ear for much of last season - telling him about the vast sums of money on offer from Chelski (both in terms of wages and a hefty signing-on fee.)

Gerrard had reportedly been actively searching for a luxury penthouse by the River Thames ten minutes down the road from Stamford Bridge.

Another in the long list of disloyal two-faced gits ?

GERRARD SET TO LEAVE

Edit: I should perhaps have posted this in the Premiership Transfer Topic - apologies.

Edited July 5, 2005 by Anti Euro Smiths Fan

[Radagast]

Oh dear. Smithy, is a player ever allowed to leave a club without being a disloyal two-faced git in your eyes? If money is the reason he wants to move (its not), surely £100k a week would have kept him in Liverpool?

[tcj_jones]

Not if 150,000 were on offer at Chelsea...

I'm really disapointed, but hopefully Benitez can spen wisely and get some good young players in.

[broadsword]

AESF, it's the way of the World mate ....

[colin]

This is probably digressing somewhat but what the heck, let's go do-lally for a while.

If Liverpool are offering Gerrard £100k per week this equates to £5.2m per year. Assuming that he has a 5 year contract then he'll be raking in (stops to take shoes off to use toes) £26m over the next 5 years.

Now assuming that Chelsea ofer him £150k per week on a 5 year contract this will get him £39m over the same period.

So just what is Gerrard (or for that matter any other greedy overpaid footballer) going to spend that extra £13m on? What on earth can they not buy for £25m that they can buy for £39m?

How many Bentleys can they drive? How many bloomin' apartments in Dubai can they live in?

Can anyone here suggest anything?

[jim mk2]

Now assuming that Chelsea ofer him £150k per week on a 5 year contract this will get him £39m over the same period.

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Chelsea have said they will not pay Gerrard more than the £90,000 a week that Lampard earns.

If you believe what Chelsea say.

[modes98]

Chelsea have said they will not pay Gerrard more than the £90,000 a week that Lampard earns.

If you believe what Chelsea say.

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From whats been said stevie g just seems annoyed at the pace of negotations and the lack of willingness to meet his demands! I would be very surprised if they offered him £100k!

It wouldn't surprise me to see gerrard signing at £125k and then lamppy getting his deal upgraded!

[Bobby G]

They dont want to break the wage structure.

Im guessing they will make up the 10k or so by adding it onto the signing on fee.

Also, I really really doubt that Gerrard is moving because of money.

I think its out of ambition.

[thenodrog]

Now assuming that Chelsea ofer him £150k per week on a 5 year contract this will get him £39m over the same period.

So just what is Gerrard (or for that matter any other greedy overpaid footballer) going to spend that extra £13m on? What on earth can they not buy for £25m that they can buy for £39m?

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Bit naive Colin cos for a start his agent who will have been chewing his ear for months and wearing down his new found scouse home-boy resolve will get a %age lump of his transfer fee (20% of 35 million is 7million ffs or about the same amount that Porto want for Mcarthy!) and any extra wage that they can scam out of the Russian......... and I'll bet that Mrs Agent will certainly want a Bentley and an apartment in Dubai.

........... and anyway whose to say that the pair of em haven't already arranged with Rick Parry to be desperately unhappy, homesick (and of course disappointed about the lack of atmosphere in Chelseas derby match v Spuds) in 12 months time?

Edited July 6, 2005 by thenodrog

[Biddy]

Well the BBC are reporting that he's changed his mind!

Gerrard shock U Turn

Good on the Lad. Although I always thought he looked tentative about saying he would stay when asked live on camera at the end of the Champions League final.