[Archived] Sustained Attempt to Undermine the Club?

[Lathund]

Has the overall quality of this board gone down a bit? Probably, but that's the price paid for becoming more popular. Of the forums I go to (popular ones, anyhow) this one is certainly the most organised and sensible of the lot.

Sadly that tells us more about how poor most other sites are. While there are still sensible posts (And even posters!) on here, there's a lot of dross to go through in order to find them.

Most telling for me is that it's obvious how each and every thread will turn out, as it seems like this board is mostly about people repeating their stance ad nauseum. Caring only about scoring points, nothing about having an actual debate. Having several dozen posters on my ignore list hasn't helped things much so I've stopped adding to it, and instead simply read a lot less on here than I used to.

However, this time it's obvious that quite a number of normally level headed and thoughtful people not known for gossip mongering or panicking have good information sources (or at least ones they trust) much nearer the club than this forum and they are scared. Rightly on wrongly these people believe passionately that the information they are privy to is potentially damaging to the club (or at least the fans) and wanting to protect their club which is something I think is only natural.

What I don't get about those people, is how they think "I know something you don't, but I'm not gonna tell you anything about it other than to make vague insinuations" is in any way doing anything to "protect their club"?

Either you know something that you can share, and then you share it. Or you can't, and then you keep it to yourself.

[deftangel]

What I don't get about those people, is how they think "I know something you don't, but I'm not gonna tell you anything about it other than to make vague insinuations" is in any way doing anything to "protect their club"?

Either you know something that you can share, and then you share it. Or you can't, and then you keep it to yourself.

I've made that point several times to one of the posters here in particular. Never had an answer.

In the majority of the cases, I'm sure it's well intentioned and not just to look wise after the event but it isn't coming across that way.

[CrazyIvan]

I've made that point several times to one of the posters here in particular. Never had an answer.

In the majority of the cases, I'm sure it's well intentioned and not just to look wise after the event but it isn't coming across that way.

Yeah, so have I and I've never had an answer either... I don't mind when someone says something like 'I can't reveal my source but...' and gives out a bit of info but to say things like 'the club is in crisis' over and over without evidence and then to actually state something that is categorically not true and restate it later smacks of the title of this thread whether it's intended or not. It comes across that way.

[Steve Moss]

Either you know something that you can share, and then you share it. Or you can't, and then you keep it to yourself.

I think the primary impediment to that is English law. As I understand from the site administrators, in the USA we are blessed in that we can speak our mind on any issue we like without fear of legal retribution. That is not apparently the case in England, which is a shame.

I agree that the hints of a problem may be scarier than the actual problem itself. Alfred Hitchcock was the master of suspense because of what he didn't show on film. Imagination left unchecked can conjure up demons where mere irritants exist.

Despite that I wouldn't ask any poster to not share what information they could, no matter how vague, (as any such suggestion would be offensive, IMO) just as I would not ask anyone to place themselves in legal harm's way. Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. And I suspect that the vast majority of those who are expressing concerned opinions would be pleased to be proven wrong.

[imy9]

The community projects have never, as far as I know, been funded by the club. You're right this was incorrect information and I said so at the time.

That was not misinformation. The Community Fund's Development Manager has left and as far as I am aware questions still hang over its operation.

I would be absolutely delighted if there has been a change of heart and all the community, educational and outreach activities are retained or expanded.

So which one is it?

1. Were these community projects funded by the club?

2. Has this funding been stopped by Venkys?

[Lathund]

I think the primary impediment to that is English law. As I understand from the site administrators, in the USA we are blessed in that we can speak our mind on any issue we like without fear of legal retribution. That is not apparently the case in England, which is a shame.

I agree that the hints of a problem may be scarier than the actual problem itself. Alfred Hitchcock was the master of suspense because of what he didn't show on film. Imagination left unchecked can conjure up demons where mere irritants exist.

Despite that I wouldn't ask any poster to not share what information they could, no matter how vague, (as any such suggestion would be offensive, IMO) just as I would not ask anyone to place themselves in legal harm's way. Time will tell who is right and who is wrong. And I suspect that the vast majority of those who are expressing concerned opinions would be pleased to be proven wrong.

I thought the "knowing something that you can share" part of my post made it fairly obvious that I was talking about stuff you could actually share without issue. My point was that if you know something that you couldn't share for whatever reasons (Betraying someones confidence, legal issues etc), then noone's being helped by you saying that you know something bad, and then withholding it. At least to me it then makes much more sense to say nothing at all on the issue.

[92er]

I've put what I think in the relevant thread. Hope that's OK?

That's great thanks.

And keep posting.

[92er]

My point was that if you know something that you couldn't share for whatever reasons (Betraying someones confidence, legal issues etc), then noone's being helped by you saying that you know something bad, and then withholding it. At least to me it then makes much more sense to say nothing at all on the issue.

I personally don't have a problem when people skirt around issues without giving full details.

It's possible to make a judgememt about posters-and many people would make different judgements about the same poster.

Sometimes the info fits in what others are saying, on here and elsewhere and sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes circumstances change and what seems good info turns out to be unreliable.

But I personally don't have a problem with it.

[Eddie]

Too many on here wanting the club to fail because of their dislike of our new owners. I was one of the most vocal naysayers when it came to Allardyce and his tactics, but I still always wanted the club to win and be successful.

There is now a large percentage of the site who use every opportunity to stick the knife in, be it after a loss, a failed attempt to sign a player or a slightly negative article. The most surprising thing is that this group includes a large number of posters who have been on here for years and who were, for the most part, always sensible.

[Lathund]

I personally don't have a problem when people skirt around issues without giving full details.

Not giving full details, and offering no detail whatsoever, aren't necessarily the same thing. I'm talking about the latter. The posters who are so vague in their insinuations that you couldn't disprove what they were saying even if you knew it was untrue. Or, for that matter, confirm it if it was true.

[True Blue & White]

Not giving full details, and offering no detail whatsoever, aren't necessarily the same thing. I'm talking about the latter. The posters who are so vague in their insinuations that you couldn't disprove what they were saying even if you knew it was untrue. Or, for that matter, confirm it if it was true.

Nicko is a highly respected member of this board and his contributions are invaluable.

[Torgeir]

Nicko is a highly respected member of this board and his contributions are invaluable.

I somehow doubt he was referring to nicko. I agree with what Lathund is saying too, that instead of saying 'I know something negative about the owners but I'm not at liberty to say what' then just STFU (sorry, had to try that abbreviation once ).

[Paul]

So which one is it?

1. Were these community projects funded by the club?

2. Has this funding been stopped by Venkys?

imy I think you will find two subjects are getting confused here. It is my understanding the Community Trust is a registered charity which is solely responsible for raising its own funds and receives no direct income for BRFC. The Community Trust office(s) are at Ewood but I don't know what the arrangements are re their location, funding (who pays for the rent) etc. Therefore I am saying, because it is what I believe, it is not possible for Venky's to remove funding from the Community Trust as the club did not fund its operation in the first place.

Philip is saying the Community Fund Development Manager has left. He does not say Venky's sacked him and I know nothing of this myself. Philip also says the fund is hanging in the balance. Not surprising in the current economic climate but I still feel this has nothing to do with Venky's.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Too many on here wanting the club to fail because of their dislike of our new owners. I was one of the most vocal naysayers when it came to Allardyce and his tactics, but I still always wanted the club to win and be successful.

There is now a large percentage of the site who use every opportunity to stick the knife in, be it after a loss, a failed attempt to sign a player or a slightly negative article. The most surprising thing is that this group includes a large number of posters who have been on here for years and who were, for the most part, always sensible.

I agree totally with this - though personally I wasn't particularly against Allardyce - as I thought he was the best man for the position we found ourselves in at the time.

I have got to the point were I actually abandon replying to some posts - as some people obviously don't want to see any good in our current regime.

For what it is worth - I think Kean is doing ok - but as many have remarked, the next three games will show how good he truly is. He has a break of two weeks to address the tactics "malfunctions" that have been so obvious to many of us watching from the stands. How he addresses these - will probably push me one side or the other of the fence. For those that call him a "yes" man, Venky puppet etc. because of who is agents are - you need to wake up. IF he is a good manager - I won't give a monkeys who is agent is, or how he came by the job. He was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time - and at the moment looks to be putting everything into making a success of his chance. Only time will tell with he has the genuine managerial talent to be a success - but there seems to a number of people in the know who rated him highly. Was he a gamble - yes; will it pay off - who knows just give him a chance.

[JAL]

Does anyone trust these people ?

After whats been said over the past few months, I know I cant.

[Mattyblue]

Nobody wants Venkys to fail, nobody wants Kean to fail. Their failure is only bad for the club.

Relegation is not an option and the decision making of the owners has risked that very outcome.

I want to win and I want the club to thrive, I hope to god that Venkys will provide this, being vocal about some of the brainless moves they have made is going to continue until they sort themselves out and there ain't nowt wrong with that.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Does anyone trust these people ?

After whats been said over the past few months, I know I cant.

Did anyone trust the Walker Trust ?

I bet there was some people who doubted Jack's initial motives when he first started to put money in.

IMO - their aim is to raise the profile of Venky's on the back of Rovers. Unlike others I think this could be mutually beneficial - for the approach to be a success - then Rovers have to be relatively successful. My only worry is how they approach the finances - the club cannot stand debt in the way that Man Utd can - so the first set of accounts will be interesting.

[JAL]

Dont think they'll make the first set of accounts look too bad DMTP with all eyes on them do you. Its the subsequent accounts that will begin to show the pattern of where its all leading.

[blue_and_white]

Too many on here wanting the club to fail because of their dislike of our new owners. I was one of the most vocal naysayers when it came to Allardyce and his tactics, but I still always wanted the club to win and be successful.

There is now a large percentage of the site who use every opportunity to stick the knife in, be it after a loss, a failed attempt to sign a player or a slightly negative article. The most surprising thing is that this group includes a large number of posters who have been on here for years and who were, for the most part, always sensible.

If you were a constant critic of Allardyce then thats probably exactly how you used to come across to his supporters. I personally remember despairing after reading hosts of negative articles even after we had won matches and wondered how those people could ever have the club's best interests at heart. A lot of Kean/Venkys fans used to criticise Allardyce and a lot of Allardyce fans now criticise Kean/Venkys. The only people free to tell either group to shut up without reeking of hypocrisy are the ones who have always supported both.

[deftangel]

Philip is saying the Community Fund Development Manager has left. He does not say Venky's sacked him and I know nothing of this myself. Philip also says the fund is hanging in the balance. Not surprising in the current economic climate but I still feel this has nothing to do with Venky's.

The problem however, is that Philip posted it in such a way that it gave the impression that it was connected to Venky's. Some would say deliberately but either way it's definitely ambiguous both in this thread and when it was originally mentioned. To your credit, you've been clear about it on both occasions.

The general point here is that this twisting of anything vaguely related into something that seems supportive of an entrenched position on either side of this debate isn't helping anybody. imy9 might not have picked the best examples but it's definitely happening.

There are enough genuine questions to be asked about what is going on at the club and the stealth trolling is only detracting from them.

[imy9]

The problem however, is that Philip posted it in such a way that it gave the impression that it was connected to Venky's. Some would say deliberately but either way it's definitely ambiguous both in this thread and when it was originally mentioned. To your credit, you've been clear about it on both occasions.

The general point here is that this twisting of anything vaguely related into something that seems supportive of an entrenched position on either side of this debate isn't helping anybody. imy9 might not have picked the best examples but it's definitely happening.

There are enough genuine questions to be asked about what is going on at the club and the stealth trolling is only detracting from them.

+1

Its the ambiguous nature of posts and then the lack of clarity which has lead to confusion, thank you Paul for being so clear.

JAL- Trust said "The club is provided for for the foreseeable future." "There seems to be a misunderstanding that there is an ever-shrinking pot of money available," he said. "That is not the case. There are other businesses apart from the club which generate profits which are available."

So why have they not used that money to support Rovers? Why did the back out of funding us the £3 million a season?

[Glenn]

I've yet to see evidence anyone wants any part of the club to fail. Just the opposite in fact, only that the see different paths to success and failure. I don't imagine anyone will get much satisfaction from saying "I told you so". But maybe there is a point to the hinting. Maybe it's an encouragement to other people to ask the right questions of the right people (as I seem one forum member has done today), things the posters can't do without betraying confidences, risking makings problems worse or getting the forum into hefty amounts of trouble by saying things they know but can't prove.

[des]

while I do not post as oftem as most, its a good place to read about the differment views that rovers fans have, it would be dull and boring if we all thought the same way however.

1 views should not be personnal, after all most of us do not meet face to face.

2 I/we are not always right. Its great to have views but we can do wrong sometimes.

3 Its ok to get it wrong, this ia a message board where views should be shared.

4 We all want what is best for rovers, however how we get there can cause heated debate.

to all, keep on reading and writing and chill out its only a game its not life and death.

[yeti-dog]

Too many on here wanting the club to fail because of their dislike of our new owners. I was one of the most vocal naysayers when it came to Allardyce and his tactics, but I still always wanted the club to win and be successful.

There is now a large percentage of the site who use every opportunity to stick the knife in, be it after a loss, a failed attempt to sign a player or a slightly negative article. The most surprising thing is that this group includes a large number of posters who have been on here for years and who were, for the most part, always sensible.

Bang on Eddie...there are several posters on here who clearly have ulterior motives ( I won't name you as it's already cost me a warning but you know who you are..).

They're conspicuous by their absence after a good result,and then almost seem to be enjoying it when they reappear afer a loss/poor performance.I simply don't understand it and it's sad that their need for 'told you so' seems to outweigh their enjoyment of Rovers winning/doing well.

I'm not going to rake up loads of old stuff,but remember the suggestions of a mass exodus..didn't happen and,in fact,several signed new contracts with apparently more to follow.

I've got no axe to grind..neither pro-venky or anti-Allardyce but I do believe in giving people a chance before I espouse the imminent destruction of my football club.Venky's have barely been here 2 minutes,are we really all so closed-minded that we've already decided that they're a bunch of chavvy shysters out to f**k up our club? Some of us need to take a good long look in the mirror..

[ross-shire rover]

There are, I believe, a lot of people like me who enjoy reading this messageboard.

Sometimes I grimace at some comments, sometimes I laugh, sometimes I shake my head in disbelief, sometimes I get angry, sometimes I wonder where some people are coming from, sometimes I agree and sometimes I disagree. Sometimes, no always , I put my head in my hands when someone writes “could have done”. Sometimes, but very occasionally, I decide to write a comment too ( that’s too, not to - see previous sentence ).

I don’t get to see games live so I enjoy reading all the different opinions on who played well and who shouldn’t get near the team. It's really amazing how one person's man of the match is another person's hopeless incompetent. I first saw Rovers play at the end of the 50s and I’ve seen some big changes over the years. Time moves on. Things change. Some changes we like, some we don’t. I can quite see why some people are unhappy about the latest developments but we certainly can’t turn the clock back. At the end of the day we’re all "supporters" of the best football team in the world...