[Archived] euro12 thread

[Stuart]

Its wrong that if Italy and Croatia are level on points and goal difference, Croatia go out due to Italys world standings!!

I thought Italy had the better goal difference, after head-to-head, for the group?

[Tom]

I thought Italy had the better goal difference, after head-to-head, for the group?

They have currently scored more goals in the head to head games which would all have been draws

[Stuart]

The rules are to messy in my view

Spain may look fantastic at times but I'm not convinced they are that brilliant, it's all tippy tappy going nowhere a lot of the time

C'mon Tom, even reigning World and European Champions are allowed an off day?

[BuckyRover]

C'mon Tom, even reigning World and European Champions are allowed an off day?

This is their second off day to be fair. They weren't all that against Italy.

Russia weren't allowed an off day that's for sure

[K-Hod]

I'm getting a bit sick of Spain now, I don't care how many passes they've strung together, how many shots do they actually have? Boring.

[Tom]

C'mon Tom, even reigning World and European Champions are allowed an off day?

I don't mean today as I'm watching Italy but sometimes they seem short or ideas and just pass it between themselves going nowhere

I'd fancy England to beat them with a direct style

[Stuart]

I'm getting a bit sick of Spain now, I don't care how many passes they've strung together, how many shots do they actually have? Boring.

Allardyce would have them purring!

[EwoodDawn]

More Nicko twitter drivel:

Alan Nixon‏@reluctantnicko

Slavern Bilic coming out of this with a lot of credit. Prem League manager in future.

Bilic SEM/Kentaro is he?

[Stuart]

Bloody brilliant. Not.

I guess we are likely to find out just how "bad" Spain are.

[Tom]

Balotelli with the finish of the tournament so far

Spain fittingly walk the ball in fitting with their 'why shoot when you can pass' mentality

Andrews sent off which could have happened an hour ago

[Stuart]

Just watching the replay of Spain's goal.

Whatever happened to phases of play when judging offside? Navas was in an offside position when the first ball was played but was onside when he received the sideways pass from Iniesta? Surely it's part of the same phase, with an unfair advantage gained from the original move?

Can't help thinking that Spain were guaranteed to go through.

[Tom]

Nah he wasn't interfering in the first phase, once Iniesta got the ball whatever has gone before was irelevent and it starts again

At least I think

[greco]

This is their second off day to be fair. They weren't all that against Italy.

Russia weren't allowed an off day that's for sure

spain do seem a bit shop worn, but it´s quite natural. The majority of these players have been playing, a lot of football for the last couple of year. Spain, barca and real doing rather well in most competetions which was bound to catch up at some point.

still have them as favorites though, they are that good.

[Amo]

lol. Andrews couldn't resist pointing at the ref.

[Baz]

Andrews unlucky not to score and looks even unluckiest to get sent off. Spain poor, but if you have so much possession, you just physically wear the other team down I suppose.

So far no outstanding team in the whole tournament, but even so I cannot see past Germany or Spain.

[greco]

Nah he wasn't interfering in the first phase, once Iniesta got the ball whatever has gone before was irelevent and it starts again

At least I think

is it not something along the lines of, if he was offside when the ball was played and later in the same attack has had an advantage, then he is offside.?

the most idiotic rule ever. A ball being chipped over the defence, the entire defensive line reacts and has navas caught in the offside trap, just as planned, but since he - according to the rules - wassnt influencing the the play, he is not offside.

I mean seriously, doesnt affect the play.??? there were atleast 2 croatian defenders influenced by his positioning and used that, to what should have been an advantage. They acted as a result of his positioning, if thats not affecting the play, i sure as hell dont know what is.

[Baz]

is it not something along the lines of, if he was offside when the ball was played and later in the same attack has had an advantage, then he is offside.?

the most idiotic rule ever. A ball being chipped over the defence, the entire defensive line reacts and has navas caught in the offside trap, just as planned, but since he - according to the rules - wassnt influencing the the play, he is not offside.

I mean seriously, doesnt affect the play.??? there were atleast 2 croatian defenders influenced by his positioning and used that, to what should have been an advantage. They acted as a result of his positioning, if thats not affecting the play, i sure as hell dont know what is.

Can't disagree with you. The rule was originally brought in to stop goals being ruled out because the winger on the opposite side of the pitch was offside by a foot, or you were offside but actively trying to get back onside and not affecting play, and in those matters no one could really argue. This phases of play thing is stupid, if you are offside at any point and affect the game by either being marked by the defence, or touching the ball, then you are offside in my opinion, no matter which 'phase' you affect.

[Gav]

More Nicko twitter drivel:

Alan Nixon‏@reluctantnicko

Slavern Bilic coming out of this with a lot of credit. Prem League manager in future.

Bilic SEM/Kentaro is he?

More Gav Tritter

Gav@Ihatekeanvenkysagnewandsteb

Alan Nixon has sold his soul to to the highest bidder, the mans turned into an internet troll and a total crank, how the once mighty have fallen.

Nixon Kean/**** is he? YES!

[EwoodDawn]

To be fair Croatia played exceedingly well in their group matches. Bilic has done a good job with Croatia (who, Modric aside, were waning in talent compared to Croatian teams gone by).

You're right, ET. Didn't phrase myself well. The drivel that I meant was the blatant fawning of Mr Nixon, who's obviously looking for another manager to be a sycophant for.

[RoyRover]

'arry has really taken his sacking badly and is spouting stupid nonsense you'd associate with a mad man!

My link

[KyleBRFC]

'arry has really taken his sacking badly and is spouting stupid nonsense you'd associate with a mad man!

My link

I agree with him to an extent, if we play the right team IMO which would be:

-----------------Rooney-----Welbeck/Carrol

Chamberlain/Young---------------------------Walcott

-----------------Gerrard----Parker

Cole------Terry----------------Lescott------Johnson

--------------------Hart

We could be a very very dangerous team on the break, we have pace in abundance, and its a very scary thing to come up against defenders are always scared of pace.

I actually think we are real dark horses of the tournament and believe we can make it to at least the semi's.

[RibbleValleyRover]

'arry has really taken his sacking badly and is spouting stupid nonsense you'd associate with a mad man!

My link

I would take Germany's midfield and attack over England every single time, Spain as well especially if they had Villa, the French attack looks pretty decent as well and despite having a shocking tournament the Dutch attack looks better than England.

[Audax]

Was 1990 the last time we met Italy in a tournament? Scillacci and all that?

Yes, that's the last time in a competitive tournament.

We didn't DID meet them in '90, 3rd place game, England crashed out to West Germany, shootout, Italy to Argentina (shootout I believe), those were the semifinals, England's group was with Netherlands, Ireland and Egypt, sequestered on Sardinia I think, on an island. Then in the knockout rounds, not sure of the order but of course, England played Belgium, that must have been the first knockout round then Cameroon and then West Germany. Think that is the order.

And England lost to Italy 2-1 in the 3rd place game! I had to come back and correct this, Italia '90.

http://www.eloratings.net/England.htm

June 4, 1997, Friendly Tournament in France: England won 2-0.

Wasn't the Confederations Cup. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_FIFA_Confederations_Cup )

[Audax]

Was the ball over the line in 1966 or had England bribed the Russian linesman ?

For these and more conspiracy theories, see audax.

No, you are correct, take Italy, not only 4 World Cups and if we are talking about more recent times, I think they were the World Cup finalists in 1970 losing to Brazil and in 1994, losing in a shootout to Brazil, believe in the knockout rounds they also defeated Spain in a shootout, in that famous game where Luis Enriquez got a crude elbow and bloodied.

Here is an article on Juergen Klinsmann talking about the American team he manages:

“We need to get an edge, be more nastier,” Klinsmann said. “Maybe we’re a little bit still too naive. Maybe we don’t want to hurt people. But that’s what we’ve got to do. You’ve got to do that at the end of the day. So we’ve got to step on their toes more and get them more frustrated and make a case with the referee maybe as well.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/02/2829964/jurgen-klinsmann-says-us-team.html#storylink=cpy

Goes without saying, Klinsmann was on the 1990 World Cup champions team.

So I'll keep it brief, I think most of the powers have done some of this, some quite a bit. Brazil, not as much and I've got a soft spot for Argentine football too, hard working and talented. But still think this has made some of these teams go and I think the Euro has less of this than the World Cup.

I also think that France has played more this way in view of the fact that this kind of play has helped Italy and West Germany/Germany become successful. Gamesmanship and what have you.

[jim mk2]

No, you are correct, take Italy, not only 4 World Cups and if we are talking about more recent times, I think they were the World Cup finalists in 1970 losing to Brazil and in 1994, losing in a shootout to Brazil, believe in the knockout rounds they also defeated Spain in a shootout, in that famous game where Luis Enriquez got a crude elbow and bloodied.

Here is an article on Juergen Klinsmann talking about the American team he manages:

Goes without saying, Klinsmann was on the 1990 World Cup champions team.

So I'll keep it brief, I think most of the powers have done some of this, some quite a bit. Brazil, not as much and I've got a soft spot for Argentine football too, hard working and talented. But still think this has made some of these teams go and I think the Euro has less of this than the World Cup.

I also think that France has played more this way in view of the fact that this kind of play has helped Italy and West Germany/Germany become successful. Gamesmanship and what have you.

Get real - it's professional sport and teams and individuals will use every trick in the book to gain an advantage.

Your favourite team Argentina are the masters at it.

At the end of the day (after 90mins), the record books show only winners and losers, and England are serial losers.