[Archived] England v Scotland

[Batman.]

So you choose not to answer my question?

Thank you imy. I believe Batman is what the Rolling Stones called a starKeaner.

I answered it pretty clearly. The fact he only scored once yet kept getting picked suggests that he must have been offering a hell of a lot to the best team in country. Of course his goal rate needs to improve, but what else can he do other than one goal for his country and two for his club in the past week? His second at Swansea is a goal Lambert could only dream about.

As for you last comment; "you need to learn some respect, say that to my face and I'll knock you on your arse etc etc."

Welbeck would be no where near the England team if he had scored one goal for Southampton last year.

And Lambert will never, ever, be anywhere near the Man United team. Imo yours (and thenodrog's) point is completely redundant.

[imy9]

Playing for a team that creates an abundance of chances, Welbeck scored ten goals in two years, Lambert in a team languishing in the lower half the PL scored fifteen goals.

Welbeck may offer other things to United but as a striker his role is to score goals first something Moyes acknowledged. Lambert is a quality striker and far bettertthan Welbeck imo.

[Batman.]

Welbeck may offer other things to United but as a striker his role is to score goals first something Moyes acknowledged. Lambert is a quality striker and far bettertthan Welbeck imo.

Then why hasn't a top team signed Lambert? "Far better than Welbeck?" A view not shared by Alex Ferguson, David Moyes, nor Roy Hodgson.

[imy9]

Then why hasn't a top team signed Lambert? "Far better than Welbeck?" A view not shared by Alex Ferguson, David Moyes, nor Roy Hodgson.

The goal scoring records speak for themselves though, no? Apart from one game against Swansea and a game against Scotland when has Welbeck shown his prowess in front of goal?

Hodgson rated Dailly and Davies!

Ok which two of RVP, Rooney, Hernandez and Welbeck would you play upfront in the league in the striker positions? If you would play Welbeck but in a more wider role, how does this help his development as a striker? Surely he needs to play week in and week out in that position to improve?

[Batman.]

Every top team in the world plays 4-3-3 with one central striker, and two second strikers/ 'wingers.'

For Man United and England, he plays in the winger position, and always will. I really don't understand this discussion? Rooney plays down the middle for England (or at times Carroll) and Van Persie plays there for Man United. You conveniently stated that 'Hodgson rated Dailly/ Davies,' but ignored the other two names that I mentioned. Also, whilst Hodgson's reign here went off the rails, let's not pretend he's not a top manager. Like I said, in 18 months/ 2 years, Lambert will be completely off the radar. Welbeck will be winning major honours at home and in Europe.

You do the math.

[imy9]

Every top team in the world plays 4-3-3 with one central striker, and two second strikers/ 'wingers.'

For Man United and England, he plays in the winger position, and always will. I really don't understand this discussion? Rooney plays down the middle for England (or at times Carroll) and Van Persie plays there for Man United. You conveniently stated that 'Hodgson rated Dailly/ Davies,' but ignored the other two names that I mentioned. Also, whilst Hodgson's reign here went off the rails, let's not pretend he's not a top manager. Like I said, in 18 months/ 2 years, Lambert will be completely off the radar. Welbeck will be winning major honours at home and in Europe.

You do the math.

Watching Man City on the TV and they are playing 4-4-2.

Even when they play 4-3-3, they play Silva/Aguero/Nasri, Chelsea, Hazard/Mata/Oscar. Real, Ronaldo/Di Maria/Benzene, I could go on, my point? All the top teams may play 4-3-3 however the players that play there provide am abundance of assists and goals, compare that Welbeck and you can see that he is clearly the odd one out. This is the weakest Man United team that I can remember and would partly explain why Welbeck plays, he does a job, puts in a shift, no more imo.

Strikers need to score goals or provide assists for their team. Is Welbeck going to learn more playing as a bit part player for United in a position that is not his strongest or playing for a team like Everton where he would play every week?

As for doing the math, I would suggest looking at what he has scored in his career and comparing it with Lambert. I know many United fans who think Welbeck is awful, not average or half decent but awful, two goals against Swansea and Scotland won't change that lol.

[Batman.]

The weakest Man United team you can remember? They won the league by 11 points and won it in April for the first time in about 7-8 years. Your view is so simplistic it's unbelievable. Judge football with your eyes, not with statistics. At the end of the day United have the options and the players to mean that Welbeck doesn't need to be anywhere near the team. However, he plays week in, week out.

I can only repeat myself again and again, but SAF and David Moyes agree with me. Thenodrog agrees with you. See what I mean? 'Lol.'

[Amo]

I'm sure Theno has undermined his own argument in the past, suggesting that the England selection policy is determined by big club bias and sponsorship deals. By that logic, Wellbeck wouldn't be England's first choice playing for an unfashionable club like Everton or Villa no matter how prolific he was.

I'm still inclined to agree, vis-a-vis his ability. 2 goals in 39 games for that Utd side is a shocking return for a striker. I don't doubt the guy's got some skills, but the argument that his 'overall game' underpins his lack of goals is the same sort of thinking that made Emile Heskey an England international.

[Audax]

Agbonlahor (sp.) I thought has played for England but Everton has had some international players already with Tim Howard and Fellaini so though I think the England selection is highly skewed, I kind of think a player from Everton if they merited consideration might play for England. Leighton Baines, Everton has played for England.

But Manchester United are so star studded, now having seen City and Chelsea, I'm not sure if they can overtake Manchester United, I'd say no at this point.

Chicharito Javier Hernandez rejects a move to Valencia http://www.sportingnews.com/soccer/story/2013-08-19/javier-hernandez-manchester-united-valencia

And Van Persie, can't say enough about him. And then they have Welbeck too who I think may not be a world beater but I think he'd make a lot of international squads.

Man Yoo fumbled away the last 2 champions league campaigns, pretty dour, I would think they will make the semi-finals at least with RVP.

[Audax]

Was that?? Darren Bent, England did not take to the last world cup though he was the top English scorer in the Premier League because he played for an unglamourous club?? I think so, that was stupid not to pick him. England were the only country that did NOT take their country's top scorer, Germany, USA, Italy, all did from what I understand, South Africa, etc.

but he's saying playing for Fulham might help him into the 3 Lions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/fulham/10253461/Darren-Bent-I-was-kicked-out-of-Aston-Villa-but-Fulham-deal-can-help-me-get-in-England-World-Cup-squad.html

England could not have done worse in 2010 virtually, very disappointing, the Euro a little bit better, gives me a little bit of hope.

[imy9]

The weakest Man United team you can remember? They won the league by 11 points and won it in April for the first time in about 7-8 years. Your view is so simplistic it's unbelievable. Judge football with your eyes, not with statistics. At the end of the day United have the options and the players to mean that Welbeck doesn't need to be anywhere near the team. However, he plays week in, week out.

I can only repeat myself again and again, but SAF and David Moyes agree with me. Thenodrog agrees with you. See what I mean? 'Lol.'

Lovely bit of irony, no? Lol.

A couple of points:

1. Man Utd did win the league by 11 points but that was due to the challengers making so many mistakes, as opposed to United being great...

Plenty of people agree...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/10248726/Chelsea-manager-Jose-Mourinho-takes-swipe-at-Manchester-United-and-Manchester-Citys-title-triumphs.html

2. England, Spain, Germany, Italy- pick any top 4 team and let me know which player you would drop for Welbeck...

3. So a player scores one goal in 20 odd games and provides little/no assists, why would a top team pick him? Sturridge is a prime example of a player who moved to a top team, became a bit part player and now having moved to a top 8 team is flourishing.

[Amo]

Southgate named England Under-21 boss.

The future's bright...

[Stuart]

Clearly they're still talking about "that" 8-1 win...

Based on personal experience of his legacy at grass roots level thanks to his role as Head of Elite Development (chortle), I have absolutely no time for Southgate. I would sooner have had Gary Neville if we were going for the youth option.

Who on earth decides this sort of thing? His mate Brookers?

[Amo]

And England wonders why it's so behind as a footballing nation.

That will never change while the FA continue with their 'jobs for the boys' policy.

[Baz]

And England wonders why it's so behind as a footballing nation.That will never change while the FA continue with their 'jobs for the boys' policy.

Too right. Pearce = failed manager, Southgate = Failed manager.

Should have gone for a top rated coach, or assistant manager with ambition in my opinion. Someone like Steve Round perhaps.

[Guest Norbert]

That Rene Matwhatever would have probably been a good choice. But no, the FA went for another spineless, polite nobody in Southgate. The FA is as cowardly as they have ever been. they ran away from Clough in the 70's and now they have another 'nice guy' to back up that lovely Roy Hodgson. Our standards in coaching are dire, and all the FA do is take the money from Mars bars and General Motors.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

That Rene Matwhatever would have probably been a good choice. But no, the FA went for another spineless, polite nobody in Southgate. The FA is as cowardly as they have ever been. they ran away from Clough in the 70's and now they have another 'nice guy' to back up that lovely Roy Hodgson. Our standards in coaching are dire, and all the FA do is take the money from Mars bars and General Motors.

Yeah, you're right. Another bad decision.

[thenodrog]

Yeah, you're right. Another bad decision.

Could have been worse. Steve Kean could have been English.

[jim mk2]

And England wonders why it's so behind as a footballing nation.

That will never change while the FA continue with their 'jobs for the boys' policy.

Southgate is a "nice" man and he speaks well on TV - which is why Graham Taylor and others got England jobs too. The FA never changes.

Even more astonishing than the appointment is Southgate's reported salary of £600,000 for doing what amounts to a part-time job.

[Gav]

Southgate is a "nice" man and he speaks well on TV - which is why Graham Taylor and others got England jobs too. The FA never changes.

Even more astonishing than the appointment is Southgate's reported salary of £600,000 for doing what amounts to a part-time job.

Its the very reason why England are a second rated nation at best in world football, its more jobs for the boys than the best man for the job.

We have plenty of quality coaches at under 21 level around the country, unsung heroes that works wonders at domestic level, but get over looked time and time again.

As Jim says, the FA never changes, and until they do we'll never amount to anything on the international stage.

[Guest Norbert]

Never mind guys, Gareth will say the right things, and be very affable to the sponsors and the head of Herefordshire's local leagues. The FA do need closing down, and Brooking needs to eff off back to West Ham.

Oh and this is from his wiki page: "In 1999 Southgate ate 16 raw Carrots in one sitting as a forfeit for losing a bet with former Crystal Palace stalwart Eric Young, the wager is thought to have been over a game of Mortal combat and although there has been years of speculation, Youngs finishing 'Combo' with Sub-Zero is not known. Reports that Southgate subsequently developed the ability to see in the dark are unconfirmed."