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No fan of Coyle - he was useless - but saying we are in a better shape then when TM arrived is I think ignoring the wider picture.

TM has spent around £12-15 million on players, Coyle sold that much on players and got to invest in fees of a paltry £250,000. Granted there would have been a few signing on fees, but likewise for TM's lot of Downing, Whittingham etc. So £15 million plus and we're in a better state- I'd jolly well hope so given that type of investment. Also we're now fighting relegation as oppose to being relegated which is hardly a ringing endorsement of coming on leaps and bounds. TM is hardly all that whatsoever.

 

Just to clarify, this does not mean I was a big fan of Coyle, and thought him an utterly terrible appointment, that only could have been worsened by the odious one K##n. That said, he had a raw deal financially compared to TM, so it's hard to stomach hearing TM has brought us on leaps and bounds.

Edited by Blue blood

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17 hours ago, Blue blood said:

No fan of Coyle - he was useless - but saying we are in a better shape then when TM arrived is I think ignoring the wider picture.

TM has spent around £12-15 million on players, Coyle sold that much on players and got to invest in fees of a paltry £250,000. Granted there would have been a few signing on fees, but likewise for TM's lot of Downing, Whittingham etc. So £15 million plus and we're in a better state- I'd jolly well hope so given that type of investment. Also we're now fighting relegation as oppose to being relegated which is hardly a ringing endorsement of coming on leaps and bounds. TM is hardly all that whatsoever.

 

Just to clarify, this does not mean I was a big fan of Coyle, and thought him an utterly terrible appointment, that only could have been worsened by the odious one K##n. That said, he had a raw deal financially compared to TM, so it's hard to stomach hearing TM has brought us on leaps and bounds.

With you there BB. Selling both centre halves (Duffy/Hanley) at the start of that season and not replace was the primary reason we got relegated . Despite spending a relative fortune (correction...actual fortune) since , Mowbray has not addressed that area of the team despite '' defenders are coming'' yada , yada. We might have several players now who are considerably better than what we had then  but we are hardly if any better and that is a reflection on the goon in charge.  

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Just now, TBTF said:

With you there BB. Selling both centre halves (Duffy/Hanley) at the start of that season and not replace was the primary reason we got relegated . Despite spending a relative fortune (correction...actual fortune) since , Mowbray has not addressed that area of the team despite '' defenders are coming'' yada , yada. We might have several players now who are considerably better than what we had then  but we are hardly if any better and that is a reflection on the goon in charge.  

Spot on. He hasn't even addressed the areas we have tried to address - still.loiking for a Graham replacement £15 million on! 

As for the defence the neglect is horrific. Thinking back to that season we had to drop Lenihen and Mulgrew back into there - the latter I'm convinced wasn't intended as a CB at all - making our lack of signings in defence utterly criminal. Fiat kop for TM doing that for a season to try staying up, but not addressing it since has been very negligent - especially given he has had 5 windows to do so. 

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20 hours ago, Blue blood said:

No fan of Coyle - he was useless - but saying we are in a better shape then when TM arrived is I think ignoring the wider picture.

TM has spent around £12-15 million on players, Coyle sold that much on players and got to invest in fees of a paltry £250,000. Granted there would have been a few signing on fees, but likewise for TM's lot of Downing, Whittingham etc. So £15 million plus and we're in a better state- I'd jolly well hope so given that type of investment. Also we're now fighting relegation as oppose to being relegated which is hardly a ringing endorsement of coming on leaps and bounds. TM is hardly all that whatsoever.

 

Just to clarify, this does not mean I was a big fan of Coyle, and thought him an utterly terrible appointment, that only could have been worsened by the odious one K##n. That said, he had a raw deal financially compared to TM, so it's hard to stomach hearing TM has brought us on leaps and bounds.

The main difference between Coyles team and this one is that back then we had a squad that was patched together by loans, frees and lads out of contract at the end of the season. Also, has anyone who left at the end of that season played at a higher level than league 1? I don't think so. We have a much better squad now, vastly better. It's just unfortunate the manager can't get the best out of them. Look at it this way, you put Mick McCarthy in charge of that Coyle team or this team and I bet you this squad does a lot better. 

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

The main difference between Coyles team and this one is that back then we had a squad that was patched together by loans, frees and lads out of contract at the end of the season. Also, has anyone who left at the end of that season played at a higher level than league 1? I don't think so. We have a much better squad now, vastly better. It's just unfortunate the manager can't get the best out of them. Look at it this way, you put Mick McCarthy in charge of that Coyle team or this team and I bet you this squad does a lot better. 

Spot on! And this is the key issue. A decent manager would be getting miles more out of the squad then TM or Coyle did. It really is obvious that if you get in a good manager, the team will do better, yet we only get bargain basement managers. 

I'll be honest on the vastly better squad I'm undecided. I flip between thinking it is strong if unbalanced and not much different. Perhaps it is better but the situation isn't much different as I would like. We've a patched up defense, a terrible keeper, an unbalanced squad and at the end of the season will need a massive rebuild, with 2 of our promotion asserts reaching the end. Certainly there's not 5 windows and £15 mill worth of tangible improvements.

That said with an exciting academy producing decent championship players, the likes of Holtby, Rothwell and Dack there should be more than enough there for a decent manager to get a tune out of that is at least not struggling Vs relegation.  As you say, this all comes down to a competent manager. 

 

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

The main difference between Coyles team and this one is that back then we had a squad that was patched together by loans, frees and lads out of contract at the end of the season. Also, has anyone who left at the end of that season played at a higher level than league 1? I don't think so. We have a much better squad now, vastly better. It's just unfortunate the manager can't get the best out of them. Look at it this way, you put Mick McCarthy in charge of that Coyle team or this team and I bet you this squad does a lot better. 

When Ireland miss out in the play offs I am hoping it works out perfectly that McCarthy takes over here and brings Roy Keane in as assistant.

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Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

When Ireland miss out in the play offs I am hoping it works out perfectly that McCarthy takes over here and brings Roy Keane in as assistant.

Im presuming this is tongue in cheek ..

Roy-Keane-and-Mick-McCarthy.jpg

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Just now, Blue blood said:

Spot on! And this is the key issue. A decent manager would be getting miles more out of the squad then TM or Coyle did. It really is obvious that if you get in a good manager, the team will do better, yet we only get bargain basement managers. 

I'll be honest on the vastly better squad I'm undecided. I flip between thinking it is strong if unbalanced and not much different. Perhaps it is better but the situation isn't much different as I would like. We've a patched up defense, a terrible keeper, an unbalanced squad and at the end of the season will need a massive rebuild, with 2 of our promotion asserts reaching the end. Certainly there's not 5 windows and £15 mill worth of tangible improvements.

That said with an exciting academy producing decent championship players, the likes of Holtby, Rothwell and Dack there should be more than enough there for a decent manager to get a tune out of that is at least not struggling Vs relegation.  As you say, this all comes down to a competent manager. 

 

Indeed, but how many of Coyles team(who left) would even make our match day squad now? 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

When Ireland miss out in the play offs I am hoping it works out perfectly that McCarthy takes over here and brings Roy Keane in as assistant.

Why I oughtta :) But ya, it's not looking good at all. In some ways I wish it was just over now and we were put out of our misery. It's the hope that kills ya.

It does tie Mick up until next April though, but I am sure he will have plenty of offers then. Not sure him and Keane will be linking up as a team anytime soon though! 

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Indeed, but how many of Coyles team(who left) would even make our match day squad now? 

The back then Mulgrew and Graham. I'd take Raya over João and Emnes up front ahead of Gally and Bereton. Also some of them are still in the team - Williams, Bennett, Gally for example - all of whom should be squad players at best. 

But yes there is improvement as not many would get in. My issue is that there's not been that much improvement and we've still a host of the same problems and imbalances 5 windows and £15 million later!

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Indeed, but how many of Coyles team(who left) would even make our match day squad now? 

Marshall at right back? Raya/Steele in goal? Mulgrew perhaps? 

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27 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

The back then Mulgrew and Graham. I'd take Raya over João and Emnes up front ahead of Gally and Bereton. Also some of them are still in the team - Williams, Bennett, Gally for example - all of whom should be squad players at best. 

But yes there is improvement as not many would get in. My issue is that there's not been that much improvement and we've still a host of the same problems and imbalances 5 windows and £15 million later!

Indeed and good suggestions. I would have to agree with Emnes and Joao being better options. Not sure about Raya though, a lot of rose tinted hindsight with him I feel. Walton has had a few changers, but he has also done well at times, especially from crosses. I remember the one at Preston too :) Raya is a great shot stopper, but has his flaws. I dont think there is much between him and Walton. 

26 minutes ago, Scotland1 said:

Marshall at right back? Raya/Steele in goal? Mulgrew perhaps? 

I like Marshall. Good footballer, but struggles with consistency and settling in one place it seems. 

Steele? Man, are you ok? Think you should sit this next one out! 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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38 minutes ago, HowieFive0 said:

Im presuming this is tongue in cheek ..

Roy-Keane-and-Mick-McCarthy.jpg

Ah they have made up 

I presume the guy with the moustache is some kind of black belt in something 😂

roy001.jpg

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Indeed and good suggestions. I would have to agree with Emnes and Joao being better options. Not sure about Raya though, a lot of rose tinted hindsight with him I feel. Walton has had a few changers, but he has also done well at times, especially from crosses. I remember the one at Preston too :) Raya is a great shot stopper, but has his flaws. I dont think there is much between him and Walton. 

I like Marshall. Good footballer, but struggles with consistency and settling in one place it seems. 

Steele? Man, are you ok? Think you should sit this next one out! 

Marshall or Bennett?

Steele who is number 2 at Brighton and ahead of Cristian Walton? 

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Steele is the worst keeper I have seen for Rovers ever. Certainly the worst to have competed regularly for a number 1 slot. 

Incidentally the whole keeper argument is which is the least worst option which kidna sums up Rovers issues...

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4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ah they have made up 

I presume the guy with the moustache is some kind of black belt in something 😂

roy001.jpg

Black belt in black puddings by the look of him.

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27 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Steele is the worst keeper I have seen for Rovers ever. Certainly the worst to have competed regularly for a number 1 slot. 

Incidentally the whole keeper argument is which is the least worst option which kidna sums up Rovers issues...

Jake Kean was probably worse overall but had a lot less time to repeatedly screw us over. Nowadays playing in the National League I believe.

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Just now, DE. said:

Jake Kean was probably worse overall but had a lot less time to repeatedly screw us over. Nowadays playing in the National League I believe.

Didn't Kean do ok at the start? Can't remember Steele having any run of decent games. 

Still would go with Steele although perhaps he had more time to show his clangers as you say. Also one was a youth promoted too soon, the other was allegedly an established keeper. 

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Just now, Blue blood said:

Didn't Kean do ok at the start? Can't remember Steele having any run of decent games. 

Still would go with Steele although perhaps he had more time to show his clangers as you say. Also one was a youth promoted too soon, the other was allegedly an established keeper. 

I think Kean might have had a couple of decent matches, but then Steele had a few where he looked okay too. Overall two terrible keepers either way. 

It's funny I was going to mention age but there's only a year between them! 

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Just now, DE. said:

I think Kean might have had a couple of decent matches, but then Steele had a few where he looked okay too. Overall two terrible keepers either way. 

It's funny I was going to mention age but there's only a year between them! 

Think it was Arsenal in the cup that made me think a bit more favourably of Kean. Perhaps Steele had more experience (hence seeming older) than Kean, although it didn't seem to do him any good. 

We really are in a bad way to have 2 such bad examples of keeper competing for the title of who is worst within such a short time frame.. 

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Elliot Bennett drives this team forwards,  Travis gets dug out yet again, Holtby gets question and another round of excuses for Gallagher but he's a brilliant 'investment'.

The man needs to step away from this now he's lost the plot it's clear to see. Why sign these players for millions and thousands per week, one 24 one 29 and then feel they don't actually know what they are doing.  So uncle Tony will have to teach you how to play the game, coming on the back of what he claims he sees in Gladwin !

This resembles the later years of Tony Blair, he sees things that aren't there. I don't care if we spank them 5-0 tomorrow there is enough come out of his gob in recent weeks to show exactly why this club will go nowhere with him in charge.

Worrying thing is a lot will say ok but without him it'll go downwards again. Not sure i agree with that project fear assumption anymore.

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1 hour ago, Scotland1 said:

Marshall or Bennett?

Steele who is number 2 at Brighton and ahead of Cristian Walton? 

I would go for Bennett. Marshall would be better farther forward. Ideally Nyambe over both. 

Ya,that guy. Do you not remember him playing for us? Are you his agent? I guessed his agent must have been a very busy man. 

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Just now, tomphil said:

Elliot Bennett drives this team forwards,  Travis gets dug out yet again, Holtby gets question and another round of excuses for Gallagher but he's a brilliant 'investment'.

The man needs to step away from this now he's lost the plot it's clear to see. Why sign these players for millions and thousands per week, one 24 one 29 and then feel they don't actually know what they are doing.  So uncle Tony will have to teach you how to play the game, coming on the back of what he claims he sees in Gladwin !

This resembles the later years of Tony Blair, he sees things that aren't there. I don't care if we spank them 5-0 tomorrow there is enough come out of his gob in recent weeks to show exactly why this club will go nowhere with him in charge.

Worrying thing is a lot will say ok but without him it'll go downwards again. Not sure i agree with that project fear assumption anymore.

I dint think that is fair. I would say he is positive about Travis overall. A little bit critical about giving the ball away,but I think that is fair. 

On Holtby the example was around delivering goals or assists compared to Rothwell. I would say it was positive about Holtby. 

I would be more annoyed that he questioned Rothwell. At the end of the day Mowbray has managed him badly. He was flying at the end of last season. He was electric. Mowbray killed that from what I have seen ,allowing for the fact we dont see him training. 

I thought Mowbrays interview was very honest. He has his faults for sure. Going off that interview he knows he is vulnerable  I really hope he can turn it around. Them sacking him is out of our control. I cant go though another Kean saga. It would be an awful way to end it. 

Edited by Bigdoggsteel

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Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I dint think that is fair. I would say he is positive about Travis overall. A little bit critical about giving the ball away,but I think that is fair. 

On Holtby the example was around delivering goals or assists compared to Rothwell. I would say it was positive about Holtby. 

I would be more annoyed that he questioned Rothwell. At the end of the day Mowbray has managed him badly. He was flying at the end of last season. He was electric. Mowbray killed that from what I have seen ,allowing for the fact we dont see him training. 

I thought Mowbrays interview was very honest. He has his faults for sure. Going off that interview he knows he is vulnerable  I really hope he can turn it around. 

If you want a ball retention side then sadly you can't play Travis and Holtby. Johnson gives the ball away just as much and Bennett has cost several goals but it doesn't matter because the dressing room likes him.

It wasn't positive really it was another dig out to justify why he throws him in and out in my book but more importantly the whole context of the piece was nonsense.  If you want to play a certain way you recruit players who can play that way. Whether we like it or not Evans and probably Johnson or even Smallwood are more suited to sitting back and passing it sideways.

The main point for me to take from that is he simply has no desire to set up to get the best out of the good forward running players he has. When we play as a ball retention side we create nothing and still concede usually from cock ups by the same players, certain ones more than Travis.  We we go at teams we need to score 4 or 5 because we are so weak at the back.

It needs a balance in between.

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47 minutes ago, tomphil said:

If you want a ball retention side then sadly you can't play Travis and Holtby. Johnson gives the ball away just as much and Bennett has cost several goals but it doesn't matter because the dressing room likes him.

It wasn't positive really it was another dig out to justify why he throws him in and out in my book but more importantly the whole context of the piece was nonsense.  If you want to play a certain way you recruit players who can play that way. Whether we like it or not Evans and probably Johnson or even Smallwood are more suited to sitting back and passing it sideways.

The main point for me to take from that is he simply has no desire to set up to get the best out of the good forward running players he has. When we play as a ball retention side we create nothing and still concede usually from cock ups by the same players, certain ones more than Travis.  We we go at teams we need to score 4 or 5 because we are so weak at the back.

It needs a balance in between.

I think Travis himself would find that disrespectful. He has so much to his game, expecting him to keep the ball better is only wanting him to push on. 

I think he has tried to recruit the way he wants it in his head,its just not working. He seems muddled,no doubt. Which knows what's going on behind the scenes. We certainly need to go back to basics though it seems 

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