He's not an outstanding manager, I'm certain about that. Is he a good manager---I thought he was some time ago but its fading quickly now. I'm very happy to admit that some/all of our recent managers were worse but that is all about Venkys and says nothing positive about Mowbray whatsoever.

No he didn't and I said the exact same thing to my mate.

Like-- but have run out of likes!

With our transfer record? Wouldn't fix it by Christmas!

I'm sure there's lots more things we could agree on if you tried harder!

I think I'll stay and continue to argue for better if its alright with you!

No---and you are being deliberately obtuse. Post after post has told you its not about this one game. This is a continuing theme.

Maybe but its looking like this was the peak of his achievement and he can't take us any farther.

No! It absolutely isn't. Plenty of fans saying exactly the same thing on the way out. Didn't hear anyone defend TM.

I know you'll be the last man standing PB----and you'll still enjoy it!

Bell looks good coming forward but there is rarely any end product. He has no positional sense at all, even looking for a short pass from a fellow defender he invariably gores the wrong way! When he is in a good position to pass or cross, he delays until either the player is covered or he is. At that point he plays it back 5 yards. Defensively he's woeful. We've been waiting a while for him to improve and I don't believe its going to happen. He's a League 1 player as are several of his team-mates.

Because we don't have a £7M striker?

If Rover had thousands like you we'd be OK. But we don't. Some/most want to be entertained for their money.

I was told on here that this was designed to install confidence in the team going into the season! God help us!

No---its always looked like one.

As I've said before, his record shows him to be a very average manager. He only seems good to us because of the dross before him. Said that before too.

There's no negativity on here----just realism. We were crap and it would be a lie to pretend otherwise. And this is not criticism based on a single game---its a continuum carried on from most of last season and the aftermath of another poor transfer window where the underlying issues haven't been addressed. This is despite the manager admitting them and promising to do something about them.

"The manager signs the players he wants and can afford"? So he can sign 2 strikers for £12M but, by your logic, can't afford or doesn't want to sign decent defenders? And you don't mind? I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight with you but I think you're happy just to go and enjoy whatever is served up. I simply couldn't be like that. And by the way, today was the perfect answer to those who moan about negativity and tell us to"get behind the lads FFS" As far as I could see, everybody did.There was an excellent atmosphere and no getting at the players, collectively or individually. It won't last with displays like this one. It made no difference anyway because this team was outplayed where it counts and out-managed. Finally every fan has influence if they choose to use it. Make no mistake TM is on borrowed time. This was a shambles.

I thought he was OK, probably wondering what he's let himself in for! Didn't see him directing the defence at all mind. Didn't see much point I suppose.

Why the hell Downing should be on there right and Armstrong on the left is another question for our Genius manager.

That's OK then? No need for any new defenders? No anger that we haven't signed them? Other than simply attending with friends, I'm not sure what you're looking for but we've had this discussion before.

A bit hard on Travis and Armstrong but otherwise accurate.

I was going to say that! Loads of possession---probably 70%+ (that's how it seemed anyway) but without creating much. Only one real chance in the first half--any connection at all and Gallagher would have scored but a difficult cross went through his legs. I don't think they mounted an attack in the first 15 minutes but, out of nothing, a dreadful clearance from Benno and we're a goal down. Responded early in the second half with a fortuitous own goal but our pressure deserved it. It seemed a matter of time before we got the winner but their defence withstood the pressure. Our's didn't. 3 or 4 minutes of goalmouth action from them, never cleared, defence in panic mode and a simple corner was enough----again. No new style---just like last season. Championship team with a League 1 defence and TM says we don't need anymore defenders. My arse! One bright spot----the form of Johnson--quick feet for such a big bloke. Oh---the away shirt does look better on than in photos! A bad, bad day for us.

We could have said that several times over the last few years but, somehow, the job is never completed. This time round our best chance lies with our outstanding youth players. If more of them are unleashed as TM's regulars prove not up to it then we might do something!

Conservative is Mowbray. Graham will play till he drops.