[Archived] Do We Really Need A Riot?

[thenodrog]

Answer me one simple question. Do you think it acceptable to spit at and attach someone because you think they are an away fan in the home end?

Answer me one too oscarraven..... Would you even dare to spit (never mind turn around and remonstrate) if you were on your own and there was no glass in the window?

btw I think most of us know the answer to that one don't we?

[AggyBlue]

Answer me one simple question. Do you think it acceptable to spit at and attack someone because you think they are an away fan in the home end?

It used to be the case that if you went in the home end at an away game, then you’re fair game.

Has it changed now?

To the tune of Lee Marvins ‘Wandering Star’

I was born in the Blackburn End

I was born in the Blackburn End

Knives were made for stabbin’

Guns were made to shoot

If you come in the Blackburn End we’ll all stick in the boot

OK. I’ve grown up a bit since those days.

I’ll get me coat.

[spanishblue]

I used to run a pub in Longridge for 15 years and the 1st box in the Blackburn end (as you look from the pitch) was leased to whoever ran the beer rights in the club. The 1st couple of years it was Scottish and Newcastle then it went to Bass. I have been in that box on numerous occasions and we were always told to drink behind the blind (especially at half time and full time) and if there were away supporters in the box, NOT to antagonise the crowd, as we were in the home end. It never bothered me or my guests as we were all Rovers fans. If I went into the box I always gave my season ticket to someone from the pub to use so it wouldn't be wasted. It sounds like it does not belong to the brewery anymore as there was always someone there (from the brewery) to keep an eye on things and make sure no one overstepped the mark. There was a few occasions that there were more away fans in the box than home fans but everything was adhered to and there was never any trouble.

I can fully understand someone in the Blackburn end getting wound up with some pratt in the box who is giving grief (polite ) to the home fans. This would never have happened when the breweries ran the box.

I hope John Newsham sorts it out but I wouldn't hold my breath after dealing with him when we played Man City at the end of the season and the City fans were all over the ground. My mother and I were told (in no uncertain terms) that if we didn't sit down and stop complaining about all the City fans around us we would be ejected from the ground

[Roost]

It used to be the case that if you went in the home end at an away game, then you’re fair game.

Has it changed now?

To the tune of Lee Marvins ‘Wandering Star’

I was born in the Blackburn End

I was born in the Blackburn End

Knives were made for stabbin’

Guns were made to shoot

If you come in the Blackburn End we’ll all stick in the boot

OK. I’ve grown up a bit since those days.

I’ll get me coat.

Sweet memories - like reading Wordsworth - I've got a warm feeling all over!

Ahhhh.................

[OscarRaven]

Do you think it acceptable to spit at and attack someone because you think they are an away fan in the home end?

Read my post again and it will answer that question, I have taken away fans into the home end. They know to keep quiet and not atogoniose the home fans. Its a matter of respect.

Answer me one too oscarraven..... Would you even dare to spit (never mind turn around and remonstrate) if you were on your own and there was no glass in the window?

No I wouldn't spit, I would certainly remonstrate and if faced with the same taunting/abuse from some of these planks (which I'm sure wouldn't happen now that the glass has been removed) I would enjoy planting them.

Just out of interest do you advocate that one day we abolish crowd segregation? Once all us 'clowns' and 'morons' who yearn for the "dark old days" have been driven from the stadia of course.

[Jimbo]

We manage with no crowd segregation at cricket, rugby, well just about every other sport in the world - soprts where their fans are just as passionate about their teams as any football fan. The only reason football is segregated is because, as you rightly point out, there are too many "morons" who's first reactions are fists and not brains. There are plenty on here that will remember swapping ends at half time and wandering over to the Darwen End to watch the second half. I for one would welcome those days back, unfortunately they won't happen.

[ABBEY]

jim ,I also remember stanleys,bottles ,darts,steel toecaps and scarfs being ripped off. Going back to to saurday hand on heart I never saw any spit either from the mouths of people or dribbling down the box.The preacher and mates banged on windows and told ,sorry shouted to the people in front they where ######;rs and to f;;k off whilst making gestures and then when people reacted they laughed and carried on.

Not being funny but you do get fans fighting at cricket and rugby and even boxing ,not much granted but it happens.You only need to look in town at weekends for trouble,and its not new theres been scrapping in town for as far back as when i can remember.If the "away " fans dont bang on windows and mouth off there would have been no mider saturday but it was handbags between glass.It can be avoided by making home areas exactly what it says on the tin if you have to put away fans anywhere put them in the boxes on the jack walker stand theres always room in there ( or appears to be ,before im shot down in flames)

[CAPT KAYOS]

fans dont bang on windows and mouth off there would have been no mider saturday but it was handbags between glass.It can be avoided by making home areas exactly what it says on the tin if you have to put away fans anywhere put them in the boxes on the jack walker stand theres always room in there ( or appears to be ,before im shot down in flames)

Abbey this is exactly the point I was trying to get at -and as I said above to me the line was crossed by both sides yet instead of carrying it on again on here.

OscarRaven Posted Today, 10:18

Read my post again and it will answer that question, I have taken away fans into the home end. They know to keep quiet and not atogoniose the home fans. Its a matter of respect.

RESPECT - OscarRaven I concur with what I think you are saying but this is what it is about - however , don't take this the wrong way, your posts didn't reflect it hence my post about the line being crossed on both sides.but we are talking about people being in boxes and not side by side on the terrace - and no I don't think we should abolish crowd segregation.

AGGY - fair game - exactly as how I feel but in the end and not behind a piece of glass - I have been in home ends following the Rovers and you now know how to conduct yourself, even though it is hard sometimes as with away fans in the BB End, and step out of line and you deserve everything you get.- but again I refer back to my point re the line being crossed on each side.

[Boz]

I missed the items mentioned in this thread, sat in the lower tier JW I'm busy winding up, the visitors bench (especially on Saturday with Colin there!), subs and linesmen (again especially so with the idiot we had at this game)!

However I did note midway through the 1st half an attempt by Rovers stewards/stadium security to what I can only describe as winding up the Sheff supporters. As far as I can recall it was perhaps after 10 or 15 minutes when they'd all calmed down a bit after their initial singing etc... Most of them appeared to be sat down (as opposed to Man U and one or two other supporters who all stand throughout) watching the match, when over the Darwen End intercom came the usual announcement. This is followed by the visiting supporters "stand up for the x,y or z", lots of jeering etc.. that leads to five minutes of pointing at stewards and rival supporters. It was my personal opinion that on the whole they were bahaving and the majority were sat down.

I appreciate that the stadium officials have a duty to uphold the regulations appertaining to the licence, but how it appeared to me was that they had chosen this game to make a point, with the resulting winding up of Sheffield fans.

[CAPT KAYOS]

when over the Darwen End intercom came the usual announcement. This is followed by the visiting

Interesting point this Boz , as I mentioned about it at the game to the lads who sit near me (don't think Bob Fleming was listening so nothing new there) ... however, don't know if it was a common theme throughout all of the games but the same happened at the Mersey derby with an announcement of similar ilk at roughly the same stage into their match.

[Manchester Blue]

Read my post again and it will answer that question, I have taken away fans into the home end. They know to keep quiet and not atogoniose the home fans. Its a matter of respect.

No I wouldn't spit, I would certainly remonstrate and if faced with the same taunting/abuse from some of these planks (which I'm sure wouldn't happen now that the glass has been removed) I would enjoy planting them.

Just out of interest do you advocate that one day we abolish crowd segregation? Once all us 'clowns' and 'morons' who yearn for the "dark old days" have been driven from the stadia of course.

Before asking me to readyour post again I suggest you eread my initial one. My post was condemning the kind of people who seem to get carried along in such incidents as this and the one where members of Noel Brotherston's family were attacked and spat at. You reply saying oh look the PC brigade getting sanctimonious I suppose you want us all to sit on out hands.

There is a large divide between the kind of fan who sits quietly on their hands and kind who cannot control themselves and finds spitting a normal response when finding away fans in their midst. It annoys me when people cannot seem to take any criticism of fan behaviour and instantly assume said criticism means lumping all fans into two camps. It's nonsense. You can have a great laugh at the match but it's about knowing where the line is as Capt has pointed out. How can you not see that?

[roversmum]

spitting at another person is not acceptable under any circumstances.

[Fife Rover]

spitting at another person is not acceptable under any circumstances.

Aha! You've changed back! That's much more like it Mum Reminds me of Debbie Reynolds (swoon!!)

[roversmum]

[thenodrog]

Just out of interest do you advocate that one day we abolish crowd segregation? Once all us 'clowns' and 'morons' who yearn for the "dark old days" have been driven from the stadia of course.

Answer me this then Oscar...... Professional football existed for about 100 years without segregation! Segregation at football matches was only introduced in the 70's. So what changed within society from the 1960's on to make people behave in the primitive and inately cowardly 'mob rule' fashion?

[colin]

Answer me this then Oscar...... Professional football existed for about 100 years without segregation! Segregation at football matches was only introduced in the 70's. So what changed within society from the 1960's on to make people behave in the primitive and inately cowardly 'mob rule' fashion?

(1) Harold Wilson

(2) The ending of National Service

(3) The abolition of hanging

(4) Jeremy Thorpe

(5) The Windrush

(6) Hippies

(7) The Beatles

(8) The abolition of birching in The Isle Of Man

(9) Vietnam

(10) Muslims

[thenodrog]

(1) Harold Wilson

(2) The ending of National Service

(3) The abolition of hanging

(4) Jeremy Thorpe

(5) The Windrush

(6) Hippies

(7) The Beatles

(8) The abolition of birching in The Isle Of Man

(9) Vietnam

(10) Muslims

5. Windrush arrived in the 40's.

and dont forget

11. Comprehensive education

12. Raising the school leaving age.

[Hasta]

Examples of political correctness:-

1) Having to call a blackboard a chalkboard

2) Being told to refer to a linesman as a referees assistant.

3) Having to call a Postman a Post Worker

4) Being annoyed by people in your vicinity spitting at other people.

Spot the odd one out Oscar.

It's easy now to label anyone who disagrees with something as being pc. I've just sang the praises of GTA San Andreas in the other Forum but I'll say here that I think the swearing in it does go a bit OTT even for a ganster game. Does that make me a member of the PC brigade??

[AggyBlue]

Answer me this then Oscar...... Professional football existed for about 100 years without segregation! Segregation at football matches was only introduced in the 70's. So what changed within society from the 1960's on to make people behave in the primitive and inately cowardly 'mob rule' fashion?

I'll answer.

There's always been crowd touble at football matches.

There are numerous reports of crowd trouble in the 1890's during our games with Darwen.

The fans even invaded the pitch at Ewood and attacked the Man Utd players in 1926.

Throughout the history of most clubs, crowd trouble appears and our crowds are much much better than most.

So what did change in the 1960's?

[spanishblue]

Women went on the pill

Sorry couldn't help it

[Manchester Blue]

Examples of political correctness:-

1) Having to call a blackboard a chalkboard

2) Being told to refer to a linesman as a referees assistant.

3) Having to call a Postman a Post Worker

4) Being annoyed by people in your vicinity spitting at other people.

Spot the odd one out Oscar.

It's easy now to label anyone who disagrees with something as being pc. I've just sang the praises of GTA San Andreas in the other Forum but I'll say here that I think the swearing in it does go a bit OTT even for a ganster game. Does that make me a member of the PC brigade??

you've explained it far better than i seeme to be doing. Spot on though for me

[Fife Rover]

I'll answer.

There's always been crowd touble at football matches.

There are numerous reports of crowd trouble in the 1890's during our games with Darwen.

The fans even invaded the pitch at Ewood and attacked the Man Utd players in 1926.

Throughout the history of most clubs, crowd trouble appears and our crowds are much much better than most.

So what did change in the 1960's?

So you would know all about it then Aggy? Sorry to have to tell it how it REALLY was, but after all "Iwuz there"

This is the situation as I knew it from first attending football league matches in 1946 to the early 70's:-

I had NEVER EVER seen or heard any violence at any match until the 70's. Bear in mind that I started my football spectating at Deepdale and Ewood by attending on alternate weeks and so saw things at both locations. Then from 1951 to 1959 first in the Navyand later as a civilian I found myself on exotic places like Ipswich Town, Plymouth Argyle, Torquay Utd, Portsmouth, various London clubs, and Luton Town. Also at Wembley for England matches, and all the grounds of the Isthmian League as a player with Letchworth Town. In all these grounds there was no segregation of any kind, Why? Because segregation had not been "invented", for the simple reason it ws NOT NECESSARY. The suporters of both teams mixed together at ALL parts of the ground; there was never any NEED to even consider segregation, although passions were running high in most matches. The difference between now and then was that people in those days did not see the opposition supporters as "the enemy" and at all matches where I was in the crowd we used to exchange friendly remarks and occasionally banter but it never got out of hand. I did very occasionally see people getting hot tempered about some incident on the pitch and there would be "a few words exchanged" but that is all.

Why it went as it did in the 70's I will never know nor understand, because it was quite simply not necessary. I can only think it was down to the changes in the 60's when common sense and educational standards both in schools and at home were abandoned in favour of the "New Freedom of Expression" and general idea of "anything goes".

I am sorry if you don't like that, but facts are facts and that is how it happened.

[thenodrog]

In all these grounds there was no segregation of any kind, Why? Because segregation had not been "invented", for the simple reason it ws NOT NECESSARY. The suporters of both teams mixed together at ALL parts of the ground; there was never any NEED to even consider segregation,

Hmmm thats food for thought. Less integration and more segregation and violence and antagonism increases. :ph34r:

err.... Am I on the right forum?

[thenodrog]

Bear in mind that I started my football spectating at Deepdale and Ewood by attending on alternate weeks and so saw things at both locations.

My father did that in the 50's too Fife! Brought up in Hoghton a hot bed of PNE/Rovers rivalry, he was BRFC through and through but he went to PNE on alternate weeks simply to watch Tom Finney and football in general.

Also my dyed in the wool blue and white brothers-in-law (along with many others I might add) went t'turf on alternate weeks in the late 60's and early 70's. Who would dream of doing that now?

So there you go aggy To repeat your final question .... Just what did bring about the change?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Like Aggy blue says fife,football violence has been seen and documented at matches as far back as the 19th century.Granted certainly not anywhere near the scale of the 70's or 80's but there have always been incidents.