[Archived] Paul Robinson

[thenodrog]

Good article this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2008/...lackburn-rovers

Robinson might not be a disaster but he certainly aint a Brad Freidel is he?

[AussieinUk]

Just thinking a little further on Robbo and adding to what I have commented on in the Andrews thread...

How will Robbo perform (as IMV he is a very much a confidence player), now that Ince won't be stroking his ego constantly? Will the next manager use the same technique or will Robbo gain confidence through a (hopefully) rejuvenated back four?

I still think Robbo has been a good buy for Rovers, in light of the departure of Friedal... That's just my opinion.

[den]

Good article this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2008/...lackburn-rovers

Robinson might not be a disaster but he certainly aint a Brad Freidel is he?

No, he isn't a Friedel.

All this goes to underline my belief, that Ince got off on the wrong foot. I said at the time and I strongly believe that his undoing was not keeping the squad he inherited together at least until January. He let Brad and Bentley go, and in all honesty, I don't think he had a clue who he was selling. If he hadn't done that, he might still have been in a job. It probably wouldn't have lasted because in my opinion Ince was the worst manager we've had for a long, long time, - but he sealed his own fate in the first few weeks.

[dannyboy1206]

With the posts on the new signings thread about getting rid of Paul Robinson, if and I think its a big if, if BFS shows him the door who would Rovers bring in to replace him

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

With the posts on the new signings thread about getting rid of Paul Robinson, if and I think its a big if, if BFS shows him the door who would Rovers bring in to replace him

The reserve guy at Bolton - Al Habsi ? Stood in for Jaskalinen at the end of last season and played a blinder by all accounts.

[T4E]

No, he isn't a Friedel.

All this goes to underline my belief, that Ince got off on the wrong foot. I said at the time and I strongly believe that his undoing was not keeping the squad he inherited together at least until January. He let Brad and Bentley go, and in all honesty, I don't think he had a clue who he was selling. If he hadn't done that, he might still have been in a job. It probably wouldn't have lasted because in my opinion Ince was the worst manager we've had for a long, long time, - but he sealed his own fate in the first few weeks.

He knew who he was selling in Friedel - a player that he held ill-feeling against from their Liverpool days and was dead set on getting rid of from the first day he was in the job.

Paul Ince not only robbed this football club of a true legend and man that should have ended his career here, he also managed to make most of our fans believe it was Brad's fault.

Totally unforgivable.

[BuckyRover]

Dreamland.

Friedel got to play under Randy Lerner for a team challenging the top four, on a "double your money" wage offer.

Also, looking at some of the comments on some messageboards, after a good start has started to look decidedly "dodgy". (Friedel)

Ince didn't do much right in his short time here, but selling Friedel and replacing him with Robinson for a small fee was good business. To get a keeper of the quality of Friedel at his peak would set us back far more than we can afford.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

He knew who he was selling in Friedel - a player that he held ill-feeling against from their Liverpool days and was dead set on getting rid of from the first day he was in the job.

Paul Ince not only robbed this football club of a true legend and man that should have ended his career here, he also managed to make most of our fans believe it was Brad's fault.

Totally unforgivable.

Oh come on Brad was a legend - but had started to show flaws (problem mainly due to his age). If we hadn't replaced him this season - we would probably have had to next - and without £2.5m of Villa's money as well. It was an arrangement that suited both Rovers and Brad.

I don't hold Ince in anyway responsible - I think the vast majority (without the benefit of hindsight) would have done the same thing. Lets not forget that our defensive frailties aren't entirely down to Robinson. Yes he has made a couple of mistakes - but he has also made some blinding saves.

[thenodrog]

I don't hold Ince in anyway responsible - I think the vast majority (without the benefit of hindsight) would have done the same thing. Lets not forget that our defensive frailties aren't entirely down to Robinson. Yes he has made a couple of mistakes - but he has also made some blinding saves.

C'mon DMTP. Right now at 5 points adrift of the team above and a goal difference that virtually makes it 6 I'm sure that we would all rather have had Freidel between the sticks no matter how old he is.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Dreamland.

Friedel got to play under Randy Lerner for a team challenging the top four, on a "double your money" wage offer.

Also, looking at some of the comments on some messageboards, after a good start has started to look decidedly "dodgy". (Friedel)

Ince didn't do much right in his short time here, but selling Friedel and replacing him with Robinson for a small fee was good business. To get a keeper of the quality of Friedel at his peak would set us back far more than we can afford.

I don't agree, I'm not impressed with Robinson. If he starts next season as our No1 I'd be surprised.

[philipl]

Given the way the club's defending has fallen apart in front of him, I am very impressed that Robinson has managed to keep his game together.

The defending (and not just the defense)- much of the trouble has been caused by the ease midfield gets by-passed- should improve in the coming weeks and then we will get a chance to judge Robinson properly.

[BuckyRover]

I think ALlardyce will stick with him and with Bunn on his coat tails he will haveto perform.

[den]

Given the way the club's defending has fallen apart in front of him, I am very impressed that Robinson has managed to keep his game together.

The defending (and not just the defense)- much of the trouble has been caused by the ease midfield gets by-passed- should improve in the coming weeks and then we will get a chance to judge Robinson properly.

That's true Philip, but alternatively, I've never seen a good defence with a bad keeper behind them.

Brian Clough always paid top whack for his goalkeepers, because a good keeper can be worth 10/15 points a season. Good keepers organise defences, they calm defences. Good keepers give defenders confidence. The best keepers don't necessarily make the most saves, but they do make less mistakes.

Dodgy/uncertain goalkeeping causes panic - centre halves don't know whether a keeper is coming for a cross or not, so they become uncertain and that spreads through a team.

Personally, I don't judge a goalkeeper simply on the saves he makes.

[tcj_jones]

Oh come on Brad was a legend - but had started to show flaws (problem mainly due to his age). If we hadn't replaced him this season - we would probably have had to next - and without £2.5m of Villa's money as well. It was an arrangement that suited both Rovers and Brad.

I don't hold Ince in anyway responsible - I think the vast majority (without the benefit of hindsight) would have done the same thing. Lets not forget that our defensive frailties aren't entirely down to Robinson. Yes he has made a couple of mistakes - but he has also made some blinding saves.

Sorry, but I just do not agree with this at all. At the time of Brad's departure, I looked back at the season just gone and couldn't remember more than one or two errors over the entire 38 + games that he played. Even an ageing Brad was still the most consistent keeper in the league and I feel his performances at Villa so far this season vindicate this view.

Fitness was never an issue either. He might have been getting old, but he barely missed a game in five years, his reactions were still spot on and he was able shot stop and get back and recover just as well as always.

Two more seasons of Brad would have been worth far, far, far in excess of the £2.5m we got from Villa. The only thing that made the move bareable was the fact that we got Robinson on the cheap. Then again, if you're going to criticise mistakes, that is something you can guarantee from Robbo season in, season out for the rest of his career.

Selling Friedel was absolute madness and it will be hard for me to forgive Ince. We'll never know the exact reasons for his departure, but I remember him signing a new contract and stating on numerous occasions before Ince arrived that he wanted to spend the rest of his career here before returning to America. I'm inclined to agree with T4E's view.

EDIT: I won't deny that Robbo has been simply fantastic at times either; he is a sensational shot stopper and always has been. Unfortunately, he is massively weak on crosses and balls into the box and not to hot on long range shots either and this will prevent him from ever coming to close to Brad.

[joey_big_nose]

To my mind Robinson has been decent. If you compare him to how Brad is doing at Villa they are roughly on a par this season. I do not feel we are doing that badly out of the swap. We made some money on Brad and concievably the big man is not going to last much more than a couple of years anyway.

I rate Robinson. Give him confidence and a stable defence and you will prosper. I could see him when he reaches his thirties as becoming as good as Brad. That experience as a keeper makes a huge difference. Brad himself was extremely up and down when he was Robinson's age, and if you told anybody in 2000 that he would go on to be as good as he was for us over the last five years it would not be credible.

I honestly feel the keeper is the least of our worries at the moment. The defence is not stable and we are not creating chances.

[den]

To my mind Robinson has been decent. If you compare him to how Brad is doing at Villa they are roughly on a par this season. I do not feel we are doing that badly out of the swap. We made some money on Brad and concievably the big man is not going to last much more than a couple of years anyway.

JBN it cost us money to exchange Brad for Robinson.

[joey_big_nose]

JBN it cost us money to exchange Brad for Robinson.

What I meant was that we got money in for him, which considering his age was quite decent. I realise we lost net 1 million for getting in Robinson. I would say that is a decent, if not outstanding, deal.

Judge Robinson once Sam has settled the side down.

[den]

What I meant was that we got money in for him, which considering his age was quite decent. I realise we lost net 1 million for getting in Robinson. I would say that is a decent, if not outstanding, deal.

Judge Robinson once Sam has settled the side down.

Yes, I realised that JBN.

Just out of interest, would you put any of the blame on our -17 goal difference onto Robinson, and how did Friedels contributions over the years contribute to the goal difference?

[BuckyRover]

It's interesting that you say his performances at Villa have been good because in the last few days I have noticed Villa fans posting on how after a good start, he has recently made a few mistakes. We got rid at the right time.

[CrazyIvan]

Just out of interest, would you put any of the blame on our -17 goal difference onto Robinson, and how did Friedels contributions over the years contribute to the goal difference?

Personally, having watched those 17 goals, Robinson could or should have saved maybe 2 or 3. The rest were out of his control. The three at Wigan for example, nothing he could have done to stop any. I'd day that all keepers have goals they could or should have kept out in a season but it's the major cock-ups we hate to see. That's why I think Brad still is a top keeper, he rarely makes major cock-ups and I can think of probably 2 or 3 over his entire time with Rovers. A good keeper makes saves that they have no right to as well as conceding the occasional goal they should really have saved but mostly they are in credit. Brad was and is excellent, one of the best ever and was worth somewhere near 15-20 points a season. Sometimes higher...

Without taking any of the deserved flack off Ince because he does deserve it (primarily for his choices of backroom more than anything) we have been very unlucky at times. Take the goal by Hull, it was an intended cross and Robbo couldn't get near it. No goal keeper would have and that was pure bad luck. Having said that there have been numerous poor decisions made by players in front of Robinson but he hasn't made any major mistakes like, for example, Gomez at Spurs. Anything he's got wrong have been slight errors of judgement and nothing more. I can't say the same for Warnock, Samba, Nelsen or Ooijer this season. Some of their errors have been catastrophic.

[den]

Personally, having watched those 17 goals, Robinson could or should have saved maybe 2 or 3. The rest were out of his control.

My point is though, how much better would our goal difference have been under Brad, because our defenders under Brad were much better organised? It's not just down to saves made, far from it. Too many people say "he makes good saves, so he's a good keeper", but not so if he's not dominating his 6 yard area.

Just a matter of debate, I'm not at this stage making any claims one way or another.

[modes98]

Then your problem comes Den. How many keepers are around that can organise the way Brad did and make top saves? Not many and those that are are with top 4 clubs.

Robinson is a very good keeper and definately worthy of a spot as a premiership keeper. He just needs his defence to do there job and not be babysat.

[den]

Robinson is a very good keeper and definately worthy of a spot as a premiership keeper. He just needs his defence to do there job and not be babysat.

But if he's a very good keeper Modes, he'll organise the defence himself. [been here before I think].

[CrazyIvan]

But if he's a very good keeper Modes, he'll organise the defence himself. [been here before I think].

He has been, I've heard him shouting instructions at the back 4 and others on corners etc. I think he has been let down by those in front of him. If you are asking me is he any better than Brad? Then no, not yet. He has the potential to be his equal but I doubt anybody will be better than Brad was for us. I would love to proven wrong though

[den]

and when I'm talking about keepers making the rest of the team play, I'm talking about throwing the ball out and giving us some kind of control from there.