[Archived] Paul's Progress

[DasGelb]

When you´re 2-0 down at home against Le Arse at the break I find it extremely weird that Ince doesn´t consider Villanueva.

Our team sorely misses everything he has to offer. He must be really bloody awful in training, cause in the only match he´s played, against Grimsby, he was outstanding.

[JC4LAB]

THE MOTD pundits (Liniker & Hanson )commented after the game,the ferocity of previous Northclub encounters Aresenal dread was totally missing .We are use to seeing at eight or so bookings in this match with lots of near sending off tackling for the pundits to discuss after...Maybe we can qualify for Europe this season like City did by being winners of the fairplay league.

[DingleBaiter]

When you´re 2-0 down at home against Le Arse at the break I find it extremely weird that Ince doesn´t consider Villanueva.

Our team sorely misses everything he has to offer. He must be really bloody awful in training, cause in the only match he´s played, against Grimsby, he was outstanding.

He's played since that Grimsby game, and if your average fan saw him they'd think he's gone from World beater to panel beater in two games. He needs to get his fitness, used to pace of game, the physicality but above anything needs players alongside him that can win the ball for him.

He needs to be managed accordingly, including not exposing him in a side that clearly can't do the basics right. You can kill a player by bringing him into a side before he can delivery his best. As great a player as he seems to be, I'd rather wait until he's got more grounding in the reserves, he can speak the language, and accept it's not going to be as easy as Grimsby every game. Perhaps a few subs appearances then?

I just think if we bring him through too early, especially with our fan's propensity by jumping to criticise and moan too quick, we stand more risk of ruining the guy than improving him.

Look at it objectively - Ince is managing him correctly IMO. He threw him in on Saturday, how many fans would think 'oh well done Paul, he's being positive'? Not many. How many would say he was desperate and panicing? Majority I would think. I doubt Villa could have had any influence on that game, nor give as good account of himself as he probably would done once he's settled. It would only have played into the anti-Ince camp as they'd only portray their ability to find negatives out of a positive.

[DasGelb]

DingleBaiter: A huge part of me agrees with you and you make very good points. Although, why is he even on the bench in this kind of match if he´s not ready to play? If he´s there, it must be because ha can come in and make an impact? We were 0-2 down at the break. If thats not a situation you want to throw him in, when is it?

Is he there just because we can´t even fill our bench with decent players who are ready to play?

[DingleBaiter]

DingleBaiter: A huge part of me agrees with you and you make very good points. Although, why is he even on the bench in this kind of match if he´s not ready to play? If he´s there, it must be because ha can come in and make an impact? We were 0-2 down at the break. If thats not a situation you want to throw him in, when is it?

Is he there just because we can´t even fill our bench with decent players who are ready to play?

I'm sure Ince was tempted, don't get me wrong, the game was effectively lost and so would have nothing to lose it seems.

It's just delayed gratification at present; it's like knowing you've got great butties in your snap box and then eating them all on the drive to work. I wouldn't want our one shining hope to be thrown in when he isn't quite ready to give the best account of himself, think of the player and not the situation. Hey, I can't wait to see the lil fella doing his magic, but after seeing him in ressys against Bolton I can understand why; he got clumped a lot & looked short of match fitness, and was more physically marked.

I'm sure he will get his game, maybe even a sub appearance against Fulham IF we can miraculously sort out the problems of Saturday and manage to have an unassailable lead. Then again.....

In summary, given all the gyp he's getting I actually think Ince is managing this one well and deserves credit. However, it needs one to be longsighted, patient and objective to realise that; especially with a lynch mob getting ready. I compare it to Treacy against Cov last season; he didn't give a good account of himself (though more established players that day were worse) - yet look at him now, he looks fit, hungry, committed and keen to prove himself. If the folks sat around me at the Cov game had their way, he wouldn't have kicked a ball again, and look what we would have missed.

[Hughesy]

I think the level of Arsenal was what stopped King C playing. I think we are much more likely to see him against Fulham. Abit like Keith Andrews - to ask a new lad to pick up the pace and play class against one of the best teams in Europe is very hard.

Hopefully we will get to see Villaneuva again soon but lets not rush him - he is small and frail, abit like Pedersen was.

For the next game id like to see Benni return to the team in place of Roberts, Olssen in place of Warnock and hopefully Dunn, in place of Reid.

[ABBEY]

hughsey are you on a wind up? benni is overweight and out of condition.Hes a disgrase at the moment to the rovers board who pay his wages.If i turned up for work unfit for duty I'd get sent home.Hes an embarassement to himself and the club and to get paid umpteen grand a week as well.Hes a morph of jan molby,john hartson and mr bloody blobby.

[Athlete]

if we pick nothing up from our next 2 games Fulham at home and Newcastle away JW and ther board will surely have to eat humble pie and have no alternative but to sack Paul Ince before it's too late and just admit they got it wrong .

Fulham at home is 1 game we have to be looking at 3 points - they are not the best of travellers

newcastle away a club in total turmoil just been outclassed by Hull

COME YOU BLUES

[LDRover]

Don't like to say this but if it should come to the point where Ince could be sacked, would the board do it so soon after his appointment knowing full well that the race card will be played out in certain sections of the media?

[joey_big_nose]

I think the level of Arsenal was what stopped King C playing. I think we are much more likely to see him against Fulham. Abit like Keith Andrews - to ask a new lad to pick up the pace and play class against one of the best teams in Europe is very hard.

Hopefully we will get to see Villaneuva again soon but lets not rush him - he is small and frail, abit like Pedersen was.

For the next game id like to see Benni return to the team in place of Roberts, Olssen in place of Warnock and hopefully Dunn, in place of Reid.

Are you crazy? Benni is lethargic and overweight. We need pace in the side! Roberts was poor against Arsenal but was our best player in the three previous games. if we are going to include Benni I would drop Cruz as they play in the same areas. But I would never do that!

To be honest such is the dire nature of our defensive game i would play 451 against Fulham. Not neccessarily as a containing game - if we get some pace on the wings it could be effective, plus we could get Carlos involved. The main thing though is it would give the back four some cover to revoer their form.

We need to steady the ship. If we keep on being gung ho with the defence all over the place it is daft.

[Hughesy]

Id say 3 wins or 2 wins & 2 draws is acceptable out of the next 5 games.

Fulham (H), Newcastle (A), Utd (H), Bolton (A), Boro (H)

As for Benni, yes he seems overweight etc, but when he came on against Arsenal I thought he put alot of effort in and did quite well. Maybe 45 mins for him next game would do him good. Fact is, he can score goals if given the chance - same cant be said for Roberts

[ABBEY]

cmon hughesy he chased, well waddled,for one ball and was gasping.If i was the board i would stop his wages until he got himself fit again.Surely a pro atheletes main tool is to be fit?Im fitter than benni at the moment and im 41 years old and riddled with artheritus.

[Hughesy]

He also made Almunia make his best save of the game - how many attempts did Roberts have in his 70 minutes?

[rover6]

Correct Abbey, you really can't stand off Arsenal. Looks like only it's Ince didn't realise that.

I would disagree.

If you want to frustrate Arsenal, you MUST stand off them - when they've got the ball well away from your box. You have to let their defenders and midfielders stroke it about outside the danger-zone, offering guarded resistance. It's when they get within the danger-zone (your third of the field) that you start harrying like mad and trying to tackle and intercept.

This defensive "siege" tactic was crucially missing from Rovers, from what I've seen. It seems that in the first half, Rovers midfielders were chasing the ball all over the pitch - wearing away their energies and destablising the formation.

To put it simply, you don't nullify Arsenal chasing their players, you nullify them by closing the space for them to play. There's a difference there which Ince did not appreciate.

[T4E]

Ince has 6 games to save his job.

If we are still in the bottom 3 at the start of November, a change will have to be made. We cannot afford to still be there at the turn of there year, on Nov 1st we'll be over halfway there, and will need to be showing signs of revival.

Not a knee-jerk reaction, just fact. We cannot afford to "give him time". It's a precious commodity that a club of our size doesn't have.

[Blue blood]

Ince complaining that he's not seen his players is the worst excuse since Souness' lady luck excuse.

We want to have international players at our club; generally it means they're of a high calabre. Also it's the same for every other premiership club and thy're not winging on about it.

Mind you Ince is trying to solve this "problem". A couple more signings like Fowler and Andrews and we won't have to worry about international duty at all.

[waggy]

ok we are in the bottom 3 but have the same points as the team in 11th,grow up children

[gumboots]

Ince complaining that he's not seen his players is the worst excuse since Souness' lady luck excuse.

We want to have international players at our club; generally it means they're of a high calabre. Also it's the same for every other premiership club and thy're not winging on about it.

Mind you Ince is trying to solve this "problem". A couple more signings like Fowler and Andrews and we won't have to worry about international duty at all.

Actually there were other managers pointing out how difficult it is - Steve Bruce at wigan for one. Liverpool made sure they didn't have as much of a problem by conveniently arranging treatment for 2 of their better players. If Liverpool had needed Torres and gerrard to beat Man U they'd have played. It's not just the playing that's the problem. It's the flying time and hanging around time. Not saying we were exclusively caused problems by it. Just that it is a significant factor and especailly having a break after a defeat such as we had at West Ham.

[CrazyIvan]

Recent Rovers history after 4 games in the Premier League

2007 - 8pts 7th place

2006 - 2pts 19th place

2005 - 4pts 14th place

2004 - 2pts 19th place

2003 - 5pts 9th place

2002 - 5pts 10th place

2001 - 4pts 13th place

Too early for relegation talk of any kind. (Hughes took over the club in September 2004.)

Actually there were other managers pointing out how difficult it is - Steve Bruce at wigan for one. Liverpool made sure they didn't have as much of a problem by conveniently arranging treatment for 2 of their better players. If Liverpool had needed Torres and gerrard to beat Man U they'd have played. It's not just the playing that's the problem. It's the flying time and hanging around time. Not saying we were exclusively caused problems by it. Just that it is a significant factor and especailly having a break after a defeat such as we had at West Ham.

I heard Steve Bruce and David Moyes both complain about the International matches and say how hard it is to work with your players because of the amount of travel.

[Billy Castell]

I am finding it hard to be so supportive of Ince as I have been in the past. Put it this way, I have no idea what is going on with the defenders, and we are to reliant on RSC for goals. Under Hughes we always seemed to be crap until December, but we didn't ship in 2-4 goals a game. I am still hopeful Ince can sort it all out, but my confidence has been dealt a blow.

However, to sack him now would make us look as ridiculous as Newcastle.

[Olveres]

I am finding it hard to be so supportive of Ince as I have been in the past. Put it this way, I have no idea what is going on with the defenders, and we are to reliant on RSC for goals. Under Hughes we always seemed to be crap until December, but we didn't ship in 2-4 goals a game. I am still hopeful Ince can sort it all out, but my confidence has been dealt a blow.

However, to sack him now would make us look as ridiculous as Newcastle.

Last season we went crap around December.

[CrazyIvan]

Last season we went crap around December.

Yeah, we conceded 6 away to Arsenal if I remember rightly (23rd December?). (Just found it, that was 2006...)

[T4E]

ok we are in the bottom 3 but have the same points as the team in 11th,grow up children

So of all the teams on 4 points, we're the lowest of them all. Why? Because we've conceeded 11 goals in those games, 8 in the last two. That doesn't concern you?

[Exiled in Toronto]

Ince has 6 games to save his job.

If we are still in the bottom 3 at the start of November, a change will have to be made. We cannot afford to still be there at the turn of there year, on Nov 1st we'll be over halfway there, and will need to be showing signs of revival.

Not a knee-jerk reaction, just fact. We cannot afford to "give him time". It's a precious commodity that a club of our size doesn't have.

While I have supported the Rovers, we have changed a manager at around that time of year six times when in danger of relegation: Quigley, Iley, Saxton, Harford, Woy and Souness. Three times the change made no difference and we still went down; the other three times McKay turned us round and won a cup, then Parkes saved the day after Harford went, and finally we had the Taffia.

We have no Parkes waiting in the wings, so staying up under that scenario would require guaranteeing getting a really good manager in November, something we have a 25% track record in doing. Plus, now we are at a higher level, getting someone good enough to manage our sulky multi-millionaires will be that much harder.

Hughes fit the bill last time; I'm not sure there will be many who will do this time around.

[JAL]

If we survive this season which I fully expect, will we survive the following season with the dross Ince is bringing into the club ?