[Archived] Paul's Progress

[den]

so friedal and bentarse leaving was down to ince

Yep. It was his decision.

[CrazyIvan]

Yep. It was his decision.

Going over the same old ground again and again... I don't think Ince had a choice with either player. Certainly not Bentley.

[den]

Going over the same old ground again and again... I don't think Ince had a choice with either player. Certainly not Bentley.

You're right, it is the same old ground.

The only person who could make the decision was Ince. - No-one else. He made the decision, which has been shown to be the wrong decision, - because we now have no effective right winger.

He will rightfully take any credit, if and when he makes a good signing, so he must take the criticism if he went about things badly. There's no getting around the fact that Ince rashly decided to sell him. Neither Friedel nor Bentley were in a position to make ANY decision.

[tcj_jones]

Our current problems might not be entirely of Ince's creation - it would appear as though both Bentley and Friedel leaving were out of his hands - but Ince must be held responsible for not bringing in a right midfielder, likewise our defensive frailties, and our current position is utterly predictable.

Roque aside, Dunn is the only player in the side with even the smallest amount of quality going forward and the only player that can create. However, he is injury prone and needs somebody to help carry the weight. I feel the criticism of Andrews is unfair, but I'd be very surprised if he can fill our vice-captain's boots. We didn't bring in enough quality in central midfield.

Right wing was a massive problem area, yet we still have no recognized right sided player.

Hughes's transfer philosophy was to only bring in players that would improve the first team. None of Robinson (although a slightly different situation), what's his face from United, Grella (perhaps too early to tell), Andrews, Carlos, Cruz no. 2 nor Fowler are really an improvement on what we already had.

We all knew that injuries to Dunn and Roque would cripple us. Dunn is out for the long haul, now you wait for something to happen to Roque.

[AndyC]

You're right, it is the same old ground.

The only person who could make the decision was Ince. - No-one else. He made the decision, which has been shown to be the wrong decision, - because we now have no effective right winger.

He will rightfully take any credit, if and when he makes a good signing, so he must take the criticism if he went about things badly. There's no getting around the fact that Ince rashly decided to sell him. Neither Friedel nor Bentley were in a position to make ANY decision.

if you believe that, you're incredibly naive.

he didn't rashly sell Bentley - he had no choice. The board would have accepted the transfer fee regardless of what Ince wanted to do.

look at our goals conceded last season and you'll see a poor defence.

it's far too early to be slating Ince - he hasnt had anywhere near enough time to stamp his mark on the players yet.

[BuckyRover]

You're right, it is the same old ground.

The only person who could make the decision was Ince. - No-one else. He made the decision, which has been shown to be the wrong decision, - because we now have no effective right winger.

He will rightfully take any credit, if and when he makes a good signing, so he must take the criticism if he went about things badly. There's no getting around the fact that Ince rashly decided to sell him. Neither Friedel nor Bentley were in a position to make ANY decision.

What a load of rubbish. As soon as the board knew there was a large offer on the table, I am pretty sure Ince would have had no say whatsoever.

Would you have really wanted him to stay?

[AndyC]

Hughes's transfer philosophy was to only bring in players that would improve the first team. None of Robinson (although a slightly different situation), what's his face from United, Grella (perhaps too early to tell), Andrews, Carlos, Cruz no. 2 nor Fowler are really an improvement on what we already had.

jeffers, mokoena, ritgers .....

yawn.

have you seen carlos play? how do you know he's not going to be an improvement?

[den]

if you believe that, you're incredibly naive.

he didn't rashly sell Bentley - he had no choice. The board would have accepted the transfer fee regardless of what Ince wanted to do.

look at our goals conceded last season and you'll see a poor defence.

it's far too early to be slating Ince - he hasnt had anywhere near enough time to stamp his mark on the players yet.

Well you had better get your facts right.

JW said publicaly that he would back Ince in keeping Bentley and Friedel. Who's naive?

[gumboots]

Bentley effectively went on strike unless you believe those preseason injury stories, so how could we keep him. this let him rot in the reserves that the fans bring out is not practical and there are rules against it. There was really no choice but to get the best price we could for him as soon as possible in the hope and expectation that we would then be able to put some of the money we received into buying a replacement of some kind. It didn't happen but I refuse to believe it was because the club weren't looking. Perhaps they could have been more active in their pursuit of targets and perhaps they tried a bit too much brinkmanship but thinking they didn't realise what a hole Bentley would leave in our time is downright silly.

[den]

Bentley effectively went on strike unless you believe those preseason injury stories, so how could we keep him. this let him rot in the reserves that the fans bring out is not practical and there are rules against it. There was really no choice but to get the best price we could for him as soon as possible in the hope and expectation that we would then be able to put some of the money we received into buying a replacement of some kind. It didn't happen but I refuse to believe it was because the club weren't looking. Perhaps they could have been more active in their pursuit of targets and perhaps they tried a bit too much brinkmanship but thinking they didn't realise what a hole Bentley would leave in our time is downright silly.

Well Matthias certainly thought they could find someone better than Bentley, so it's not silly, is it.

Ince should have come in, told everyone that no-one was leaving until January at the earliest, added to the squad with a couple of quality signings, then taken it from there. Can't believe how nobody could see that. He wouldn't have been the first manager to use that approach when totally new to the playing squad and club.

Very naive.

[LeChuck]

Bentley effectively went on strike unless you believe those preseason injury stories

That only happened when Spurs came in with serious money, I think it was a smokescreen concocted by the club and Bentley to prevent him being injured in a meaningless friendly. It wasn't anything approaching a strike.

Gareth Barry was far more pressing (at least in public) for his move to Liverpool, but Villa showed how best to deal with it. That was from a far, far better club than Spurs as well.

[gumboots]

That only happened when Spurs came in with serious money, I think it was a smokescreen concocted by the club and Bentley to prevent him being injured in a meaningless friendly. It wasn't anything approaching a strike.

Gareth Barry was far more pressing (at least in public) for his move to Liverpool, but Villa showed how best to deal with it. That was from a far, far better club than Spurs as well.

And Bentley would have played if they'd told him to would he? Obviously he's not going to go on out and out strike but he certainly didn't want to play. Villa had European football and the clout of a wealthy owner and an established manager to "persuade" Barry to stay and Barry is a Villa boy at heart. I don't think we could have done it effectively with Bentley, despite his saying how much he loved the club.

[67splitscreen]

Wish I could the find the perfect world, some of you dreamers live in.

[LeChuck]

And Bentley would have played if they'd told him to would he? Obviously he's not going to go on out and out strike but he certainly didn't want to play. Villa had European football and the clout of a wealthy owner and an established manager to "persuade" Barry to stay and Barry is a Villa boy at heart. I don't think we could have done it effectively with Bentley, despite his saying how much he loved the club.

Barry isn't a 'Villa boy at heart', he joined from Brighton.

Instances of players refusing to play for clubs are so incredibly rare, and it takes a certain type of person to do it. Bentley might have been a bit of a loud-mouth with the press, but he certainly doesn't seem like the sort to refuse to play...especially as that would have severely dented his England hopes.

[den]

Villa had European football and the clout of a wealthy owner and an established manager to "persuade" Barry to stay

Villa never at any stage persuaded Barry to stay, they refused to sell him.

[imy9]

Barry is a professional and as such continued to play for Villa whilst the transfer talks were occuring and once Villa refused to accept a lower bid he stated he would stay at Villa- for now.

Bentley on the otherhand stated he wanted a CL team, realised he would not get one, threw a strop in training in front of the players, feigned an injury in pre season promting an early exit.

Villa are also owned by a billionaire who has the financial clout to say no, we dont have that option.

Fact is that we had a squad of unhappy players at the end of last season, proven with SIX transfer requests from players in the 1st team.

Dunny's injury is Ince's fault as is Grella's. The stock exchange is on the verge of collapse, I am sure he did something there too

[Iceman]

Bentley wanted to leave, even when Hughes was in charge. Friedel, well you cant blame him for taking the money at his age, now can you? Fact of the matter is that, Ince and the board could not find a replacement for bentley, is that fact. Rubbish, they had enough time to find a suitable replacement. JW knew what a loss Bentley would be, and yet they waited til the final moments to bring somebody in. That is what you call utter crap and being very daft. If this Yildirim guy is any good, then we should sign him up til the end of the season, but at least we wil have a genuine right sided player.

Bentley wanted to leave, even when Hughes was in charge. Friedel, well you cant blame him for taking the money at his age, now can you? Fact of the matter is that, Ince and the board could not find a replacement for bentley, is that fact. Rubbish, they had enough time to find a suitable replacement. JW knew what a loss Bentley would be, and yet they waited til the final moments to bring somebody in. That is what you call utter crap and being very daft. If this Yildirim guy is any good, then we should sign him up til the end of the season, but at least we wil have a genuine right sided player.

[tcj_jones]

jeffers, mokoena, ritgers .....

yawn.

have you seen carlos play? how do you know he's not going to be an improvement?

Mokoena was an improvement on the first team. He was excellent in the holding midfield role at times and slotted in at the back when we needed him as well. I'll give you Jeffers and Rigters, but neither came in for real money.

Carlos may well develop into an excellent player but, as it stands, he is not an improvement on the current starting XI, and we need somebody to slot in immediately.

[92er]

Bentley wanted to leave, even when Hughes was in charge.

So the interesting question for me is what MH would have done about it.I suspect he would have been reluctant to sell him because of the Arsenal clause. But if he had decided to sell him, it is highly unlikey he would have relied on Emerton for right wing and I am sure he would have done his very best to bring in a replacement, knowing how much we relied on Bentley.I also wonder who he might have bought for centre midfield if hae had been allowed to spend £4 mill on one player.

[RovertheHill]

Well Matthias certainly thought they could find someone better than Bentley, so it's not silly, is it.

Ince should have come in, told everyone that no-one was leaving until January at the earliest, added to the squad with a couple of quality signings, then taken it from there. Can't believe how nobody could see that. He wouldn't have been the first manager to use that approach when totally new to the playing squad and club.

Very naive.

I'm sorry but the only naivety is yours. You may have been right in the 80's and early 90's but not now. The ONLY reason Barry didn't go to Liverpool was that Liverpool struggled to stump up the cash and the owners questioned the valuation. It's an utter nonsense to say Villa resisted selling Barry. They didn't. What they did was resist selling a player who wanted to leave until the valuation was met. Which it wasn't in any kind of credible manner. I'm willing to bet that if Liverpool get taken over between now and January, and Benitez stays, Barry will be a Liverpool player in January.

[tcj_jones]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned.

No new faces in January

If this is really the case, then the club are being hugely negligent and taking a massive risk on its future in the Premier League. Williams' quotes, quite frankly, put the club in an embarrassing light. Premier League clubs don't take masses of obscure players in on trial. Premier League clubs have good enough scouting networks and the finances available to bring in the players the manager wants. The club really is a shambles at the moment and I never realized just how desperately we need investment.

[LeChuck]

Before January TCJ.

You frightened the life out of me for a while there though.

[RovertheHill]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned.

No new faces in January

If this is really the case, then the club are being hugely negligent and taking a massive risk on its future in the Premier League. Williams' quotes, quite frankly, put the club in an embarrassing light. Premier League clubs don't take masses of obscure players in on trial. Premier League clubs have good enough scouting networks and the finances available to bring in the players the manager wants. The club really is a shambles at the moment and I never realized just how desperately we need investment.

It does actually say BEFORE January - which is sensible in my view because anyone available now hasn't got a club (and therefore by extension is a bit...erm...desperate?)

[92er]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned.

No new faces in January

If this is really the case, then the club are being hugely negligent and taking a massive risk on its future in the Premier League. Williams' quotes, quite frankly, put the club in an embarrassing light. Premier League clubs don't take masses of obscure players in on trial. Premier League clubs have good enough scouting networks and the finances available to bring in the players the manager wants. The club really is a shambles at the moment and I never realized just how desperately we need investment.

The article reads as "no new faces till January", it was in the LT and I think a couple of people, at least, have commented on it.

[AggyBlue]

Before January TCJ.

You frightened the life out of me for a while there though.

So you think we need new players?