[Archived] Rovers Hit The Headlines

[67splitscreen]

Willie Cunningham played for Scotland, not me!

Skip reading, fatal.

[LeChuck]

I fint this very offensive. You MIGHT see these groups in these terms,I certainly don't.

There's something of the Ron Atkinson about you at times and it does you no favours at all.

You've got to love the irony of him describing both groups as having a 'chip on their shoulder'.

Mind you, the "we all see" intro has wound me up a bit as well. Does he think everyone in the country is as ginger ignorant as he is?

[rebelmswar]

I fint this very offensive. You MIGHT see these groups in these terms,I certainly don't.

There's something of the Ron Atkinson about you at times and it does you no favours at all.

Theno could recite "Mary Had a Little Lamb" on here and someone would be offended.

[Kelbo]

Skip reading, fatal.

Slippers & Horlicks

[yeti-dog]

Theno could recite "Mary Had a Little Lamb" on here and someone would be offended.

Don't think we need to be being apologists for what was unnecessary.

I do sometimes wonder if theno feels every post has to have the whiff of controversy.

[rebelmswar]

Don't think we need to be being apologists for what was unnecessary.

I do sometimes wonder if theno feels every post has to have the whiff of controversy.

He may very feel like he does.

Stereotypes are negative but are there all the same. I personally find then hilarious being a minority myself. When I look at a person skin color registers on the same level as eye color or the size of a persons ear - I was raised that way.

That being said, I find it hard to render special treatment based on some slight difference in genes. I find people, especially white gentiles, and the vast majority of people from my "minority group" think the same, that feel like they have to protect minorities rather pretentious.

Not classing you as such, but in my eyes theno stating a stereotype is no different than you labeling him a ginger.

I would hazzard a guess that you avoid BET, pretty much every black written or directed movie, MTV, rap music, most post match Nba, NFL interviews, etc. in fear of being offended?

[yeti-dog]

He may very feel like he does.

Stereotypes are negative but are there all the same. I personally find then hilarious being a minority myself. When I look at a person skin color registers on the same level as eye color or the size of a persons ear - I was raised that way.

That being said, I find it hard to render special treatment based on some slight difference in genes. I find people, especially white gentiles, and the vast majority of people from my "minority group" think the same, that feel like they have to protect minorities rather pretentious.

Not classing you as such, but in my eyes theno stating a stereotype is no different than you labeling him a ginger.

I would hazzard a guess that you avoid BET, pretty much every black written or directed movie, MTV, rap music, most post match Nba, NFL interviews, etc. in fear of being offended?

I'll try to respond to this but tbh your argument is all over the place.

People are 'pretentious' for challenging ignorance based around sterotypical cliches??.. Fyi,theno didn't simply state a sterotype,he actually said I think we all see these groups as...not so,and that's what offended me.

Also,read back,I wasn't the one who called him a 'ginger',I think you'll find that was Lechuck,although it is very different. He simply stated he was ginger,not that they are lazy,shifty,bling-laden etc etc...massive difference.

Finally,why would I avoid black culture on fear of being offended?Not that I need to defend my cultural tastes to you,but are you suggesting that all black culture is made up of the stereotypes spat out by theno..if so,shame on you too.

[Mattyblue]

didn't theno say 'I am generalising massively', he didn't say 'you ALL think this, just like me', did he?

[yeti-dog]

didn't theno say 'I am generalising massively', he didn't say 'you ALL think this, just like me', did he?

.

Not quite Matty...what he actually said was this...

"To generalise massively we all see Scotish stereotypes as tough, dour, driven individuals with red hair, white skin and big chips on their shoulders v black stereotypes with headphones, endless bling, laid back, overly relaxed and frequently lazy attitudes with equally big chips on their shoulders too".

The 'we all see..' bit was what angered me.

[rebelmswar]

I'll try to respond to this but tbh your argument is all over the place.

People are 'pretentious' for challenging ignorance based around sterotypical cliches. Fyi,theno didn't simply state a sterotype,he actually said I think we all see these groups as...not so,and that's what offended me.

Also,read back,I wasn't the one who called him a 'ginger',I think you'll find that was Lechuck,although it is very different. He simply stated he was ginger,not that they are lazy,shifty,bling-laden etc etc...massive difference.

Finally,why would I avoid black culture on fear of being offended?Not that I need to defend my cultural tastes to you,but are you suggesting that all black culture is made up of the stereotypes spat out by theno..if so,shame on you too.

Shame on me?

If such things are black culture then why feel the need to defend a stereotype that is self promoted by that culture? So because a white person states a stereotypes it is a wrong thing to do, but countless movies celebrate the culture, that is acceptable? Are all the white producers of such movies also as insensitive? Or do they get a pass for throwing up the green?

Stereotypes are all over the place on such things. Please show me an Eddie Murphy movie where a white guy is not the villian. Show me an advert that includes a minority or a woman, when the white guy is not either an idiot or doing, whatever the advert is about, wrong in the first place.

I am not trying to argue with you, or talk sense for that matter, almost impossible to do on a phone. I just wonder why you feel the need to brand people for things that, when you really get down it, do not concern you. Unless you feel you fit that very very wrong stereotype. Unless somehow that terrible, ghastly stereotype is so close to the mark that you yourself feel the desire to change it.

I didn't see you rush to the defense of theno when called a ginger or numerous remarks about peoples sexual preference, or Keans pretty much everything. Why? There is countless remarks about people from Scotland and the heathen, God worshiping United States. Posts and posts about christians and how religion is the cause if all ills and should be eradicated.

Not a peep.

Why?

Because it was not Theno who said it?

I think protecting the poor hard done to minorities from the mobs of racists is a bit 90's.

When the president of the United States is a self proclaimed black man and there is a higher percentage if senators and congressmen of the black persuasion seated than the percentage of the black voting population, in the racist United States, I think it is time to find a new racial guilt stick to beat yourself with.

Try gingers, there are far far fewer of them.

P S. You are only arguing with me because I am a Jew.

[yeti-dog]

Challenging ignorance is a bit '90's'...sheesh.

The fact there's a black president and numerous other top politicians in the USA then presumably confirms they're not all lazy and shiftless then?

Having said that,you may have a point now I come to think of it...I've never liked carrot-tops

[rebelmswar]

The fact there's a black president and numerous other top politicians in the USA then presumably confirms they're not all lazy and shiftless then?

Having said that,you may have a point now I come to think of it...I've never liked carrot-tops

Indeed, you hairest.

[thenodrog]

Challenging ignorance is a bit '90's'...sheesh.

The fact there's a black president and numerous other top politicians in the USA then presumably confirms they're not all lazy and shiftless then?

Having said that,you may have a point now I come to think of it...I've never liked carrot-tops

See you Jimmy..... get a life san....

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_01/russabbot0709_228x411.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php%3F24564-Paraibo-do-Sul-River-and-beyond...&h=411&w=228&sz=22&tbnid=X84GFYtotjxljM:&tbnh=125&tbnw=69&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dscottish%2Bfootball%2Bfans%2Bstereotypes%2Bpictures%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=scottish+football+fans+stereotypes+pictures&hl=en&usg=__-6NE5YR2IUEYwBGETrLYwODqnwg=&sa=X&ei=7rycTZmFDMKEOrzPiIkH&ved=0CCcQ9QEwAw

[bazza]

When I played Football, we were coached for a couple of seasons by Willie Cunningham - anyone remember him? He was in his early fifties then, supremely fit and was a brilliant fella.

In the course of my work I had the fortune to visit Willie in his sports shop on Church Street, Preston in the early 70's.

What a nice bloke he was. He was a little taken aback to find out I was a Rovers supporter when I started talking football.

You know when you come face to face with Phil Brown, the current North End manager, and he looks like he has had his face under a sunlamp for six months? Well, Willie had the true blue beard. Even though clean-shaven, his cheeks, upper lip, chin and neck looked like they had been completely covered in a blue tattoo.

Great bloke!

[tony gale's mic]

Sorry but anyone using the term "black culture" is pretty ignorant in themselves. For one, genuine African culture and African American culture are very, very different to each other; although these days African American culture is making an impact on African youth culture.

You wouldn't refer to "white culture", since British and Ukrainian culture are also massively different to each other.

[yeti-dog]

Perfectly happy with my life thanks,I'm not the one who's taken his cultural references off of 'Love thy neighbour'..

Sorry but anyone using the term "black culture" is pretty ignorant in themselves. For one, genuine African culture and African American culture are very, very different to each other; although these days African American culture is making an impact on African youth culture.

You wouldn't refer to "white culture", since British and Ukrainian culture are also massively different to each other.

With respect...total bo**ox. That's why the prison I work at have a 'Black History' week sometimes which is run by the black prisoners themselves.

Not surprising you'd rather have a dig at me than challenge bone ignorance,but heigh ho.

[Mattyblue]

Prisons? Bloody holiday camps...

[JAL]

For me it makes no difference. Lots of managers of all sorts fail and it's a shame for them too. Who cares what colour of skin a manager has? Cream will always rise to the top. The Football business cannot afford sentimentallity to suit every minority. One might ask why there are no chinese given the amount of them on the planet or even why there are no women managers as there are more women on the surface of the world than any other human group. How about homosexual managers? Crikey if we could get top four regularly I'd accept Julian Clary in drag standing on the touchline with Clare Balding assistant manager in Doc Martins and a boiler suit!

Here's a question though. On the subject of proportions the real managerial mystery is how come Scotland a country with a pop about the same as the old county of Lancashire produces so many quality football managers? It's massively disproportionate to other nationalities. For example the number of black players far exceeds the number of scottish players so why does that reverse in management? To generalise massively we all see Scotish stereotypes as tough, dour, driven individuals with red hair, white skin and big chips on their shoulders v black stereotypes with headphones, endless bling, laid back, overly relaxed and frequently lazy attitudes with equally big chips on their shoulders too. The measure of success obviously being that the sweaties are better balanced as individuals.... cos they have massive chips on both shoulders!

btw did anyone realise that there are currently more scots managing Premier League teams than Englishmen? I don't even want to compare trophies won either. Maybe that would be a more worthwhile subject for Oliver Holt to investigate.

Everybody seems to have a chip on their shoulder Theno just look and read the English media especially from London. I think the key with the Scots are that they are a more level headed bunch, that arent stuck up their own arses, have an in built driven determination with great peoples skills, thats why they are successful.

Unfortunately for us Kean still looks to be the odd one out.

[yeti-dog]

Nice try Matty..but not biting.

[tony gale's mic]

Perfectly happy with my life thanks,I'm not the one who's taken his cultural references off of 'Love thy neighbour'..

With respect...total bo**ox. That's why the prison I work at have a 'Black History' week sometimes which is run by the black prisoners themselves.

Not surprising you'd rather have a dig at me than challenge bone ignorance,but heigh ho.

I was actually referring to both sides, you're not the only one who has used that term. You might have an odd obsession with my posts but I don't really notice yours in particular as much.

My views on theno I've expressed repeatedly, I think he's a pathetic, bigoted individual. That much is obvious. Challenging his ignorance may be admirable but it's also ultimately futile, it's been done many a time before. He's going to take those views to the grave with him.

And "black history" and "black culture" are two totally different parameters. Comparing them is pointless.

"Black history" is something which can incorporate the whole picture, from the dawn of civilisation in Africa, through the slave trade and onto African American culture, MLK, apartheid in South Africa etc etc. In practice it usually just refers to modern history and issues regarding racial struggle in both African countries and in places like the US and the UK...which is okay because it's usually promoted as a form of self-affirmation by a minority which has often been oppressed. Much like how gay pride is celebrated.

The term "black culture" though is silly, because it tries to lump together cultures which are vastly different to each other. "Hip hop" culture is hugely different to genuine African culture which is probably more similar to the gospel culture in the southern states of the US, but obviously there's big differences still.

[yeti-dog]

I was actually referring to both sides, you're not the only one who has used that term. You might have an odd obsession with my posts but I don't really notice yours in particular as much.

My views on theno I've expressed repeatedly, I think he's a pathetic, bigoted individual. That much is obvious. Challenging his ignorance may be admirable but it's also ultimately futile, it's been done many a time before. He's going to take those views to the grave with him.

And "black history" and "black culture" are two totally different parameters. Comparing them is pointless.

"Black history" is something which can incorporate the whole picture, from the dawn of civilisation in Africa, through the slave trade and onto African American culture, MLK, apartheid in South Africa etc etc. In practice it usually just refers to modern history and issues regarding racial struggle in both African countries and in places like the US and the UK...which is okay because it's usually promoted as a form of self-affirmation by a minority which has often been oppressed. Much like how gay pride is celebrated.

The term "black culture" though is silly, because it tries to lump together cultures which are vastly different to each other. "Hip hop" culture is hugely different to genuine African culture which is probably more similar to the gospel culture in the southern states of the US, but obviously there's big differences still.

I haven't got an obsession with your posts,sorry if it felt that way..the first line of mine you quoted was a respone to theno not your good-self.

I take your point about the discrepancy between history and culture although culture often does seep into their history when they're celebrating it a work.

[Glenn]

Head this back towards Rovers and Headlines before it closes.

[booth]

I could punch Oliver Holt...

[den]

In the course of my work I had the fortune to visit Willie in his sports shop on Church Street, Preston in the early 70's.

What a nice bloke he was. He was a little taken aback to find out I was a Rovers supporter when I started talking football.

You know when you come face to face with Phil Brown, the current North End manager, and he looks like he has had his face under a sunlamp for six months? Well, Willie had the true blue beard. Even though clean-shaven, his cheeks, upper lip, chin and neck looked like they had been completely covered in a blue tattoo.

Great bloke!

Hiya Bazza!

Yep, being that he was coaching us, I thought I'd get a new pair of Football boots from his shop on Church Street. I also hoped for a nice little discount. Forgot he was Scottish.

Lovely chap. Coached us for a couple of years coming along from Longridge where he lived to Leyland. Wouldn't take a penny off us - even for expenses. He used to join in the training sessions and believe me, he was as hard as nails, even in his early fifties. Fitter than any of us he was, as well.

Can't speak highly enough of him.

[Dunnfc]

Got to say after reading some comments on this thread WOW.

As a Scotsman myself I would disagree with the comment on being brought up on the hard side of life etc... It's not a racist thing to say I mean we arn't a race as such. What I will say is we tend to be more stubborn and determined. We just have to look at our national teams as such : Scotland: Gutsy, hard-working and determined. I wonder if Scotland had a population as big as England would the national teams be different... As for the chip on the shoulder comment pah! I'd say we are a far happier bunch!

Anyways that was off topic, sorry Mods!

We might hit the headline and get a fine but to be honest most of us could have predicted it. I still believe Anderson acted well for us but did very well for himself in the end. He has a business to run and had contact with Blackburn... This sort of arrangement type thing happens in everyday life.