[Archived] London riots

[thenodrog]

Some lessons surely learned are...

1. That police tooled up and en masse standing idly by and simply watching whilst mob looting and rioting is going on does nothing to prevent such actions escalating.

2. Much evidence points to the Roe v Wade (1973) case which legalised abortion on demand in the USA leading to falling crime figures 15-20 years later. Point being that single girls from the lower social orders (trailer trash /walmart women) as a result of the Roe v Wade ruling chose to abort unplanned pregnacy's rather than face financial hardship etc. The kids who statistically were most likely to turn to crime in adolescence and who simply weren't born.

Compare that to this country where we actually reward the long term third generation unemployed and unemployables, the Vicky Pollards of this world to become pregnant and produce 3/4 feral children as a lifestyle choice. Basically we are breeding at a faster rate from the bottom shelf whilst those higher up the social orders, the responsible, the industrious and the talented are producing fewer children later in life. It's a long term downward road to national disaster.

Eugenics might no be the most tasteful of subjects and it's not the easiest but it's certainly becoming a necessary debate as the worlds natural resources start to peter out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect

'Roe v Wade'.

[adopted scouser]

If I here the word community again I think I'll spew up. If you want a peaceful 'community', work, pay your bills and respect the law of the land.

Stop blaming everyone else for your situation, my daughter's 16 and is working part time already (in line with XI'th form. Nobody owes you a living, you live on benefits and spend it on cannabis.

Stop blaming the police, grow a pair and get a job.

[SAS]

Some lessons surely learned are...

1. That police tooled up and en masse standing idly by and simply watching whilst mob looting and rioting is going on does nothing to prevent such actions escalating.

2. Much evidence points to the Roe v Wade (1973) case which legalised abortion on demand in the USA leading to falling crime figures 15-20 years later. Point being that single girls from the lower social orders (trailer trash /walmart women) as a result of the Roe v Wade ruling chose to abort unplanned pregnacy's rather than face financial hardship etc. The kids who statistically were most likely to turn to crime in adolescence and who simply weren't born.

Compare that to this country where we actually reward the long term third generation unemployed and unemployables, the Vicky Pollards of this world to become pregnant and produce 3/4 feral children as a lifestyle choice. Basically we are breeding at a faster rate from the bottom shelf whilst those higher up the social orders, the responsible, the industrious and the talented are producing fewer children later in life. It's a long term downward road to national disaster.

Eugenics might no be the most tasteful of subjects and it's not the easiest but it's certainly becoming a necessary debate as the worlds natural resources start to peter out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalized_abortion_and_crime_effect

'Roe v Wade'.

Agree with much of your post.

Being quite young most of my generation is how you describe. In fact I don't know anyone married with children, or engaged for that matter. So many of them have children with different fathers. Or have a one night stand and keep the child.

These that keep the child get free houses, everything paid for. They go out and spend much more money than me.

I've just had my first child with my fiancée. We were renting a flat but had to move back to parents as we could not afford with a child on the way. My partner gets statutory maternity pay which is not much. I earn enough money so as we get no grants, extra money other than family allowance. We are currently struggling to save money as my wage has to provide for all 3 of us. I work 50-60 hours a week minimum. A good proportion of my wage goes on my car, insurance and petrol....

We are low down in the pecking order for a council house because of my wage.

Earn a decent whack and you get f all...

Yet many of our friends have no jobs, no desire to have a job and get everything we want for free and more.

[thenodrog]

Agree with much of your post.

Being quite young most of my generation is how you describe. In fact I don't know anyone married with children, or engaged for that matter. So many of them have children with different fathers. Or have a one night stand and keep the child.

These that keep the child get free houses, everything paid for. They go out and spend much more money than me.

I've just had my first child with my fiancée. We were renting a flat but had to move back to parents as we could not afford with a child on the way. My partner gets statutory maternity pay which is not much. I earn enough money so as we get no grants, extra money other than family allowance. We are currently struggling to save money as my wage has to provide for all 3 of us. I work 50-60 hours a week minimum. A good proportion of my wage goes on my car, insurance and petrol....

We are low down in the pecking order for a council house because of my wage.

Earn a decent whack and you get f all...

Yet many of our friends have no jobs, no desire to have a job and get everything we want for free and more.

It has to stop SAS. It is biased and unfair on you. Your taxed income supports you and yours and the tax that you can ill afford to pay supports others too.... Others that cant be arsed even supporting themselves never mind their offspring. The system in this country is rewarding them and taking the ###### out of you.

Sobering thought but as the oil runs out the world will be forced to reduce it's human population by something in the region of 75-90% unless technology can find a solution. To support the production of children for the sake of it is madness, is suicidal and is a dereliction of duty to future generations.

[John]

Quite funny this evening, couple of chavs causing trouble, one got a smack hard in the jaw, good bye.

[USABlue]

Tent cities and work parties. It worked in Arizona. Just ask Sheriff Joe.

HAving lived in Arizona for about 26 years can you tell me just how tent city "worked" How did they work?? what exactly did they fix??? IMHO nothing more than a less expensive way to expand the prison system plus wonderful exposure for Sheriff Joe.

[Steve Moss]

HAving lived in Arizona for about 26 years can you tell me just how tent city "worked" How did they work?? what exactly did they fix??? IMHO nothing more than a less expensive way to expand the prison system plus wonderful exposure for Sheriff Joe.

If we are basing our expertise as to length residing in Arizona, I was born in Arizona in 1965 and am currently 45 years old. And I am a 3rd generation Arizonan for tie breaking purposes.

As to your question, you answer it within your conclusion. And considering that Sheriff Joe has won every election since 1992, the voters of Maricopa County appear to appreciate his "less expensive" methods.

Though if you want to expand your criticism beyond the tent city issue, I would have far more sympathy for your arguments against the sheriff.

[philipl]

The Telegraph has had some superb articles during this crisis

Anywhere other than the Telegraph voicing opinions like these and the cry of bleeding heart liberals would go up. The reality is the top is as dysfunctional as the bottom.

To practical issues and I am strongly of the opinion that other than the handling of the aftermath of the Duggan killing, the Police will be seen on balance to have done as well as they could given the circumstances and knowledge available to them.

Over 1,000 arrests in London now and the majority are not being given bail so they are being kept off the streets. Last night the level of tension was way down on what it had been in London.

Guardian analysis of those processed by the Magistrate's Courts so far. Apart from a lot of anglo-saxon names in Nottingham, seems to be a very mixed bunch.

[thenodrog]

As good a suggestion as any is that anybody found guilty of rioting and looting should be struck off the benefits register ...... assuming that any were on it of course.

[ABBEY]

If we are basing our expertise as to length residing in Arizona, I was born in Phoenix in 1965 and am currently 45 years old. And I am a 3rd generation Arizonan for tie breaking purposes.

As to your question, you answer it within your conclusion. And considering that Sheriff Joe has won every election since 1992, the voters of Maricopa County appear to appreciate his "less expensive" methods.

Though if you want to expand your criticism beyond the tent city issue, I would have far more sympathy for your arguments against the sheriff.

tent city,my cousin lives in glendale and loves the tents .

I mentioned this when we are talking about the rioting whilst i was in corfu.Build a tent city on dartmoor, winter hill etc .Then when its snowing and stuff ..hey presto they may just realise what theyve done.

When i went to az lastime the cons were all digging in a chain gang dressed in pink.

[philipl]

Couple of developments.

Police have set up a large screen in Birmingham City Centre and are putting images of wanted rioters up and asking passers by if they know any of them. In London the Flickr rogues gallery is leading to people turning themselves in to be taken down from it.

An 18 year old girl in London has been charged with a very serious crime for using her Blackberry messaging to incite and organise others in the riots.

[Steve Moss]

tent city,my cousin lives in glendale and loves the tents .

I mentioned this when we are talking about the rioting whilst i was in corfu.Build a tent city on dartmoor, winter hill etc .Then when its snowing and stuff ..hey presto they may just realise what theyve done.

When i went to az lastime the cons were all digging in a chain gang dressed in pink.

I think he has done a good job with the tent city, the pink, limited entertainment (no girly mags, traditional music only), and chain gangs for trash and landscaping projects. I think he has probably demonstrated poor judgement on other issues, such as alleged political investigations, politically motivated lawsuits and budget fiascos.

If you have a jail crowding situation, you could do worse than adopting a tent city equivalent. A few thousand rioters? Dress them in pink, stick them in a tent city in the English winter (which has to be as adverse as our heat- good call Abbey), take away the girlie magazines, limit their movies to those rated G and music to Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin over the PA system, and for food feed them bologna sandwiches twice a day with water to wash it down. They might appreciate their liberty a bit more after the "harsh" experience and restrain their behaviors a bit in the future.

[adopted scouser]

If you have a jail crowding situation, you could do worse than adopting a tent city equivalent. A few thousand rioters? Dress them in pink, stick them in a tent city in the English winter (which has to be as adverse as our heat- good call Abbey), take away the girlie magazines, limit their movies to those rated G and music to Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin over the PA system, and for food feed them bologna sandwiches twice a day with water to wash it down. They might appreciate their liberty a bit more after the "harsh" experience and restrain their behaviors a bit in the future.

Fantastic, and exactly what we need. Most of 'em are such pansies that removal of their home comforts is where to hit them quickly. How many of these morons could live without their designer gear, McDonalds and a mobile ? None I expect.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

music to Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin over the PA system

JESUS WEPT! NOBODY DESERVES THAT KIND OF PUNISHMENT!!

[ultrablue]

Hackney rioters speak out on motivations

[roverandout]

its a sick world when school kids say they 'need the money', no exuse for what they do, just a bunch of scummy moron filth.

[JAL]

If I here the word community again I think I'll spew up. If you want a peaceful 'community', work, pay your bills and respect the law of the land.

Stop blaming everyone else for your situation, my daughter's 16 and is working part time already (in line with XI'th form. Nobody owes you a living, you live on benefits and spend it on cannabis.

Stop blaming the police, grow a pair and get a job.

Its currently six people for every job.

Which means that the other five people unemployed simply cant get work AS.

So getting a job isnt as easy as you may think, such is the sad present state of our country.

[thenodrog]

Its currently six people for every job.

Which means that the other five people unemployed simply cant get work AS.

So getting a job isnt as easy as you may think, such is the sad present state of our country.

I posted a comment along these lines last night along with a reply from SAS. Both quite long posts which took some considerable effort but for some reason they were both deleted. No reason given either which imo is poor form and displays a distinct lack of courtesy.

[adopted scouser]

Its currently six people for every job.

Which means that the other five people unemployed simply cant get work AS.

So getting a job isnt as easy as you may think, such is the sad present state of our country.

They should try harder.

What riles me is that they try to justify unemployment as an excuse to steal property and damage buildings. You think they've got a point JAL ? eh ?

[SAS]

They should try harder.

What riles me is that they try to justify unemployment as an excuse to steal property and damage buildings. You think they've got a point JAL ? eh ?

Agreed you make your own success in life by striving to be better than the next person.

Too many people just want an easy Job so they can chill which is why so many people are unemployed.

I recently had a job offer. I was chosen over 20 over candidates for two positions. Unfortunately for them I was just test the water and had to decline the job. And it was for a decent salaried job with good prospects.

Why can't people do this for easier jobs??

Have a good attitude, live a clean life and you have a great chance of getting a job..

[Steve Moss]

Here is a good article on the issue of rioters and burglars vs. self-defense and property rights.

http://ricochet.com/main-feed/Rioting-for-Fun-and-Profit

[JAL]

They should try harder.

What riles me is that they try to justify unemployment as an excuse to steal property and damage buildings. You think they've got a point JAL ? eh ?

They should try harder AS ? Whats all that about, if the opportunities are not there, at all !

Its WE, thats US who should 'try harder' in order to create and maintain those opportunities that are required for our children and their childrens futures.

This is where we have failed. But if you are comfortable earning a decent living, then maybe I shouldnt expect you to show much compassion to the disadvantaged kids of this country.

What it has highlighted is that there are alot of young people in this country who are very angry with things as they stand today and I dont blame them one bit.

At the moment there is a campaign in the media to discredit these people, yet we should be asking ourselves collectively why have WE got it wrong and not they.

[adopted scouser]

At the moment there is a campaign in the media to discredit these people

Nonsense, they've done a perfectly good job of that themselves.

I could be wrong but it seems to me you condone their actions, committing criminal damage, theft and public order.

Ask yourself this JAL, when the people of Jarrow in 1936 decided to march to London to protest about unemployment and social deprivation, did they smash up their own town first ? I don't think there's any record of that in the history books.

This lot are thieving, opportunistic scroats.

[Steve Moss]

They should try harder AS ? Whats all that about, if the opportunities are not there, at all !

Its WE, thats US who should 'try harder' in order to create and maintain those opportunities that are required for our children and their childrens futures.

This is where we have failed. But if you are comfortable earning a decent living, then maybe I shouldnt expect you to show much compassion to the disadvantaged kids of this country.

What it has highlighted is that there are alot of young people in this country who are very angry with things as they stand today and I dont blame them one bit.

At the moment there is a campaign in the media to discredit these people, yet we should be asking ourselves collectively why have WE got it wrong and not they.

You got it wrong (and so are we) by assuming the government can "fix" the job situation. It can't. If you want jobs you need business. If you want more business, you lower taxes and reduce regulation.

The answer is not social welfare, it's work. But you won't create the incentive to work when you have a country embracing the concept it is our fault for not providing opportunity (i.e. benefits), as opposed to holding the thieves, burglars and muggers to severe account.

This lot are thieving, opportunistic scroats.

Exactly.

[jim mk2]

As good a suggestion as any is that anybody found guilty of rioting and looting should be struck off the benefits register ...... assuming that any were on it of course.

The miscreants are being punished through the courts with fines and jail sentences so taking away benefits would be a double punishment. If you read the newspapers (which I doubt) you also might have noticed that many of the troublemakers are not benefits claimants but people in jobs, some of them very respectable jobs. Perhaps you might suggest how these people should be doubly-punished too.

I notice Cameron has put his foot in his mouth again with unjustified criticism in parliament of police tactics and the lack of police on the streets over the past 5 days. Not surprisingly, the police have defended their actions and also pointed out to the idiotic PM that his public spending cuts are already hitting police numbers.

Former FA secretary Ted Croker famously told Thatcher in the 1980s to get her hooligans out of our football grounds and I thought Ed Miliband missed a trick in PMQ in telling Cameron to get his hooligans off our streets. Cameron should have stayed on holiday with his hooray-henry friends in Tuscany for all the use he has been in the past week.